WOW! What a big house! Let us know a little about yourself. Lots of kids? lots of entertaining? that said I love how you have the wash sink off the mudroom sharing the bath with the guest bedroom. Makes it more duel purpose.

In building our current home I wanted a main level laundry. I don't know how old you are but what would you do if it became more difficult to climb stairs? you could move in bedroom #5 and do laundry if the laundry was down stairs. Not sure...maybe you plumbed for one in the mudroom for future use.

The sitting room in the master seems kinda funny. I think it would be better all open. Are you sitting in there staring at a wall or watching TV? i'm not sure. It just looks kinda funny on paper.

You've got a lot of redundant and awkward combination spaces. 3 places to eat and two major sitting areas. Combining formal spaces like living and dining is just plain weird if you are going to reproduce the combo on the other side of the house and give it a different name. If you're not going to have a separate formal living and dining room and you're not formal people, then just eliminate the living/dining room entirely. That way the kitchen and family dining area can become larger and you can actually have enough clearance between the island and the table. As pictured, it's too tight. It's the same with the office and guest room. Combine them. You can use a pull out sofa or murphy bed for those times that you have someone staying the night. A laptop and wireless router means that work can occur in any room in the house, so for the few days that you have a guest, a small dressing table or night table in the bedroom can suffice for then. The two story family room will be LOUD and will have no buffer between all of that sound and your bedroom. It will also always be difficult to heat and cool. All the heat will rise to the top, and all the AC will pool at the floor level. If you do go with it, you need to plan for powered return ductwork from the top to bottom. That will also add noise that you don't want next to your bedroom.

Upstairs, your master suite occupies 1/4 of the entire space of the home. For rooms that you will mostly spend 1/3 of your time in with your eyes closed, that's far too much space to be proportionate to either the size of the house or how the space is actually used. I really don't care for the sitting room at all. Most people that have them in masters never end up using them. An extra closet however would always be welcomed. Bedroom 2&4 need closets in between them as sound buffers. Your master closet is too large for efficiency sake with too much floor space to hanging ratio, so take some space from it, and give to the other bedrooms as reach in closets. The sitting room converted to closet space can add back any lost storage. However, if you lop off the living space below, you can just lose bedroom 2 just fine. And the whole bloated master area needs to be put on a diet. It's not earning it's square footage or it's HVAC cost.

I know I set myself up for this by asking for comments but wow, harsh. I have seen many larger than 4200 sq ft house plans on this site and they have not gotten all that. It is very common around here to have living dining combo. That whole room can be formal. My husband is going to work from home more so he can spend time with our kids so he will be using the office with multiple monitors to work all the time. He also grew up with a master sitting room that his dad uses all the time. The wall is a little weird but gives a wall for a tv. The master closet will have a pennisula so no wasted floor space. Most houses have the master area take a large percentage of upstairs.
I wish I didnt feel so pissed so I have to be defensive and not be able to listen to anything you said. I would like suggestions from everyone but you dont have to completely rip something I have been working on for a year to shreds.

RE: comments, please try to not let them get to you.... I know exactly how you are feeling, but try to just look for comments that make you think about things you didn't see... ignore the ones that bug you. Otherwise, this site can drive you crazy. :)

RE: the office, does it need a closet? Mine doesn't in my home, but I think it would have been a good idea if I had the space.

If I was the occupant of bedroom #4, I would find the closets confusing....... Since that room has pocket doors, maybe you aren't thinking of it as a bedroom?

RE: your master closet, it looks divine.... as does your kitchen pantry! My master closet is 8'3" wide (x 17' long) w/ hanging clothes on three sides. On the long sides, between the hanging clothes, there is 4'4" of open space. If you plan on hanging clothing, you would have about 6'4" of open space to incorporate an island and walkways. I don't think that's enough........ However, perhaps you have built-ins instead of hanging clothes?

Thank you. We used to have a closet in the office. I think it got lost in changes. We will have built ins. I think that will be enough.
The 4th bedroom is a family library/kids study area.
We are getting rid of the linens outside our closet, making it 10 by 16 and putting in a divider in the middle with full mirror and storage.
Do you think it strange to not have an entry from kitchen to dining. My husband doesnt want to lose wall space in the kitchen for another entry.

Built-ins in an office would be fine for me. :)

RE: your closet, again, it sounds amazing!

RE: dining/kitchen... I would side with your husband. It doesn't look too difficult to get to the dining room, as is. What is normal for your area?

Even though you probably started this new thread because you figured out how to post larger pictures, it would be best to at least include a link to the previous post. It explains how certain rooms will be used and prevents people from asking the same questions that have already been asked. Some people can also take a new thread the wrong way and get offended, almost like you didn't like what they had to say so you started a new thread to get other opinions that would not include theirs.

Here is a link to your previous post.

Im sorry. That was not my intention to affend anyone. The older post was so messed up before I figured out pictures. I should have tried the testing post first.

Here is a link that might be useful: other post

(I started this earlier, but got interrupted - I did notice a few small changes in the plans, but I do think it does still help to have your previous explanations so you are not having to defend yourself all over again.)

I want to mention something on the pocket doors and the pantry. A pocket door leaves a "pocket" in the wall where it slides into. Typically, you will not have a stud in this void. I've heard of doing a double wall or doing 2x6 wall with a 2x4 door, but with your typical setup, no stud. Therefore, you really have to think about how you are going to do those shelves in the pantry. With the one we just built at my parents house, the shelves only come out as far as where the pockets began. (We have double pockets, just like you show.) On one side, a small unit was built - it is basically free standing and anchored to the wall at top, above the pocket. Nothing was done on the other side since a freezer is sliding into the spot.

I don't have a problem with having both the office and bedroom 5. They are both plenty big. But, I say that, because I also know that you plan to use bedroom 4 as a library/study. This also makes it a lot easier to see that you probably don't need a closet as a buffer between bedrooms 2 and 4 as was suggested. Growing up, my relatives had a similar type room. When the daughters got into high school, they were both on the drill team and took dance. They ended up putting mirrors all along one wall and it made a great place for the girls to practice certain moves in an air conditioned environment. The other half of the wall had book shelves and a desk that ran almost half the length of the room. Although this is quite a bit smaller than that area, I can see the multi-functionality of it with some planning. The only thing I might consider would be placing two reach in closets between bedrooms 2 and 3, then moving the linen closet into the hall bath and making it larger, perhaps even separating the toilet/tub area from the vanity area.

Where are you placing the washer and dryer? I would not want them on the sitting room wall as I think it might defeat the hideaway purpose.

I think the sitting area is fine. It looks like a pretty easy space to use a variety of ways - for a young family, you could add doors and make it into a nursery. We did a room off my parent's master bedroom that has the personal office desk and computer and her sewing machine in it. They don't want anyone in that area so it is purposefully made where you couldn't accidentally open the door into it. It could also be changed into another closet if someone wanted to do that. Use it how you want to use it now and I think there are several options as to how another family could use it if you ever sold the house.

thank you for all the thoughts. We had the back to back closets with larger bath in the previous plan but it was changed to have more options for the window above the front door. If we are able to switch it back based on exterior looks, I think I would.

thank you for all the thoughts. We had the back to back closets with larger bath in the previous plan but it was changed to have more options for the window above the front door. If we are able to switch it back based on exterior looks, I think I would.

Thought of something I meant to add about the pantry and pocket doors. Depending on if it suited the aesthetics of your home, you might be interested in barn doors. They slide on a track on the outside and therefore do not interfere with the wall. Had I known about them when doing up my parent's house, I would have at least suggested pricing them out as an option. We used 2 - 24" pocket doors in the pantry, but original goal was a 5' opening. This wasn't possible due to the pockets, but would have been with barn doors.

This one is from mythreesonsnc kitchen:

Other google examples showing a wide variety of styles.

In progress shot

{{gwi:1414740}}

It's so much easier to read, with the bigger plan! :)

I know you don't want fireplaces, so I like the way you've used the bookcases in the combo dining/living area. (I didn't even see those before.) The big window seat area in the family room looks good, too. Both give you nice focal points, in the spaces.

Combination rooms are so nice! If your needs change, that can be more library/sometimes dining or larger dining with a smaller seating area. The way you have it set up now is great, but 'separate' formal rooms can be so restrictive.

Now, I can also see more clearly the mudroom area...and the access through the garage. It looks like you have room in the garage (on the family room wall) to put extra storage or even more cubbies. Great place for sports equipment, too. Is there a bench in the mudroom? It looks like it, but hard to tell for sure.

Upstairs, I love window seats, so I'm wondering if you can include some in the bedrooms...maybe with bookcases on either side. It's so great (especially in kids' spaces) to have built-in storage. While you did that in bedroom four, you said that's not actually going to be a bedroom, right?

The only other suggestion I have may not work at all, but have you thought about making the upstairs a little larger? (Gasp from some of the GW crowd LOL) If this is all wrong, please disregard, but I notice that your laundry areas and master sitting room are both a little small. If you could put the master bedroom space over the family room, you could have a larger seating area (where most of the master bedroom is now) increase the size of the laundry space...and put the kids' playroom/bonus room, over the garage. Maybe even an upstairs media room for their friends?

If you have a basement, you may not need this space, but basements can/do flood...so just a suggestion :)

this was the inspiration for the pantry. It may change when we really start designing the kitchen but...

Oh, I like that pantry picture!

I was going to add, if you put the kids' room over the garage...then bedroom 4 could be YOUR space. DH has the office and master sitting area, kids have their own space...do you need a craft/sewing room, office or 'away' space of your own?

My 'away' space will be the greenhouse/sunroom, with a little table for tea. With our long winters, I really wanted a sunny space, connected to the house. My husband's space is the rec room in the basement (if we didn't already have this house (with basement) I'd rather have it on the main floor, but it has a beautiful fireplace and hasn't had many flooding issues, in the last 60 years or so (it used to be his grandparents' farmhouse).

Best of luck with the build :)

That is a very pretty pantry! I think Allison talked about it in Attic mag. Hard to tell how thick the actual wall is and how much of that is trim from that angle. Based on the construction of the other shelves, I am guessing these have an end panel that abuts the pocket door wall.

My parents pantry is about 6.5' by 11' on the inside. It holds a refrigerator and chest freezer. This isn't to scale, but was a mockup I did to explain to some relatives how it was arranged.

{{gwi:1414742}}

Isn't it funny how at the time, you think you are taking pictures of everything and then you go back and try to find a picture showing something and realize you completely left out certain views!

Their pantry is in a hallway, and much more for function than aesthetics. I only have one picture where I catch the a picture of the doorway in the background.

And you can see in this picture how the shallow cabinet is taller than the doorframe allowing it to be anchored high for some added support. (They are basically free-standing, but the more support the better!)

The refrigerator will slide in next to this solid side and have a shelf above it.

miffy13--I know how strongly the reaction to the comments can be because the same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago!

I then got to second guessing myself, the plan---everything. So I gave myself about a week and then went back a reread the comments. that way I could examine them much less emotionally.

I found that I agreed with several of them but still disagreed with many of them. And at the end of the day decided that I liked my plan and that was all the mattered.

I would ignore the "personal preference" comments but seriously look at the functionality comments (such as aisle width, closet width, etc) because those can help you find things you didn't see before.

Those comments can also help you decide if you like the way something is designed. IMO, if you can defend it and have good reasons for why you did it, then it's your house/your money!

Good luck with your house!

Is there some way you can reconfigure bedroom 3, the closet and the hall bathroom. It would be nice if you could get the bathroom on the outside wall to get the window in the bathroom rather than the closet. Perhaps reach-in closets in that bedroom. They can be made where they can actually store more than walk in closets.

Thank you everyone for your time.
lavender lass- space for myself, ahh, wouldnt that be nice. I am getting a craft room in the basement. The house is already a little bigger than we want.
aa62579-thanks for all the pantry advicng. I will look into the barn doors.
okpokesfan-yeah, its easy to take these things personally but, in their own way, please are all just trying to help.
dekeoboe-The problem is that window is above the front door so I will have to figure out the exterior and then reassess.

A few things that I would consider.

1. As others have mentioned try to get a window in the bath. I just did a quick re-arrange with a reach in closet and not moving the window you had at all. Not saying this is the best layout, just to illustrate that you can probably achieve a window in the bath and not changing the facade.

{{gwi:1414746}}

2. Are there windows over the tub in the master to overlook the family room?

3. Make sure you work on sound reduction from the master bath to the family room and from the family room to the master as sound will travel easily in the open space there.

4. The door to the toilet room will make you have to step in/behind the toilet to open/close it when you are in there. I think in other reviews other posters have pointed out that this also be an issue if you collapse in there as people can't make it in to help. Apparantly it is not an uncommon thing if you read what has been posted on this site. The door swing and having to step behind the toilet part would drive me nuts.

5. My neighbors have a really similar pantry set-up to you put they have outswing doors instead with shelves mounted on the inside of doors. I love their pantry and have serious pantry envy. Their seating isn't in that path though, but it still is a walk through area.

6. The mudroom area seems like it will be a bit tight with the door in front of the cubby/lockers, although the measurements are fairly large so maybe it isn't based on what the value says. Just seems like it could be a bit tight in that area when all are trying to leave. Might want to mock the space up in reality and see how it would work for you.

I like the area you call formal as it could easily be made into something else if you wanted to. Also if you want it to remain formal I like that you can't see into the kitchen from the dining area.

Thank you everyone for your time.
lavender lass- space for myself, ahh, wouldnt that be nice. I am getting a craft room in the basement. The house is already a little bigger than we want.
aa62579-thanks for all the pantry advicng. I will look into the barn doors.
okpokesfan-yeah, its easy to take these things personally but, in their own way, please are all just trying to help.
dekeoboe-The problem is that window is above the front door so I will have to figure out the exterior and then reassess.

I dont know why it keeps reposting previous posts the next time I come back.weird.
thank you lyfia for your thoughts.
thanks for the closet thought. I didnt even thing of that because we were so focused on making the bedrooms the same for both boys. I will look into possibilities with this option.
The family room is only 12ft so the windows look out over it and we shouldnt have the sound issues as much as two story.
I will think about the swinging pantry doors. We dont really need the island seating anyway with the table right there. our builder just put it in because i guess most people do.
We are getting the floorplans with exact numbers any day now so i will take a look at the mudroom.

lyfia, I was also worried about the sinks back to back with two boys 14 months apart. That might just be asking for fighting. I will look at options though.
Does anyone see problems, soundwise, with the kids doors right across from eachother?

So for clarification, the family room is not really two story - it just has a taller ceiling and the bathroom window will look out over the ROOF above the family room?

yes

You could also take the closet between the boys rooms and the linen closet there and make that area into two back to back reach in closets. Then the two rooms would match. Then the bath could be made bigger and have a cabinet in there for towels and you could have the window. Probably could re-locate the linen closet to that area too.

OK that makes much more sense then if that isn't a 2 story great room. I thought you were having windows from the bath into that area and it seemed really odd.

yes

Thanks. I think we were all interpreting that incorrectly. A lot of the stuff about noise/heating&cooling/etc. that people have talked about doesn't really apply now.

If you decided to post any new revisions, or start another thread :) I think I would just leave off the gray box part from the 2nd story where it says open to family room below. I think it would create much less confusion and keep you out of the 2 story room controversy that seems to run rampant here.

Formal rooms like reception areas, parlors, "living rooms", etc, are all public spaces near the entry of a home that serve to separate the casual family space from the more formal guest reception and entertaining area. A combo living and dining room is a modern concession to small home size living that does not allow for separate public and private spaces. What you have is a casual living and dining space and another casual living and dining space. I could understand if you had located them separately at the front of the house, across from an open style foyer from each other. That would preserve their formality. This does nothing but duplicate informal space in a wasteful manner. If you truly do want a formal living and dining space, then think about swapping the office and other bedroom with the living/dining room to create actual formal space and place the non public areas of bedroom and office at the rear, where they belong. Then switch the powder room with the full bath.

Your main hallway is also waaaaaaay too large. 18x17 is another bedroom!, and a large one at that! Your family room is only 1' larger than your hall! You're over on space, and that's the first place to start cutting. Give some of that room to the breakfast area, which doesn't have enough room for both comfortable table seating and a traffic path to the french doors.

Upstairs, a 9' wide room won't be comfortable for TV viewing at all unless the TV is tiny. You need to carve up that room differently if you want a comfortable separate TV area.

For a house this large, it also feels "wrong" to not have another bathroom upstairs, or at least a secondary bathroom that doesn't have a separate tub and shower to serve 3 bedrooms. I agree that you need a tub, but the shower will get used far more, and it will just be more convenient to be able to have two bathing facilities in a larger bath. Or, add the second toilet and have two baths instead. A 5/4.5 has better resale than a 5/3.5 home and dividing up the bath won't actually be that expensive. Losing some of the excess square footage elsewhere will pay for it, and putting the space into a room that will get used ever single day compared to the square footage in a passageway or tertiary sitting area is a very sensible tradeoff.

Your view from the master tub will be blocked entirely by the roof of the family room if the ceiling of the family room is taller than the rest of the downstairs. There just isn't any way it wouldn't be, even if you did a flat roof. It would be better to switch the makeup and tub area, and that way you could have a place for a vanity mirror that you don't now in front of the window. And then your tub would have the view over the back yard.

greendesigns-thank you for your imput but I dont agree. The living/dining can be a formal space. combining them lets you make the dining room bigger or smaller depending on circumstance and was a conscious decision.
the foyer is that size with the staircase. its only 8 ft wide without.
We had another bath upstairs but took it out because its not needed. Two kids can share a large bathroom.

this was another option for both bachrooms but the tub where it is in the kids bath may cause exterior problems

Miffy- I still think the combination living/dining room is fine, since it allows you more flexibility. One formal room that's large enough to turn the dining table and expand it to seat 12-16 makes more sense than a small room, where 8 people is the max. I don't know if you 'need' a parlor, but I see that space more as a library/dining area, with a great balance of cozy (book shelves) and light (all the windows/french doors). I'd much rather be in that room, than two little spaces!

Have you already started your build? Does your site seem to dictate a walk out basement? Do you need more family space downstairs? That's the only reason I was asking about expanding the upstairs over the family room and garage...so you wouldn't have the added expense of the basement. Maybe it would balance out the cost, but it would be less square footage, overall.

Does your husband's asthma make it difficult to be in the basement or do you have a drier climate? Basements can make great extra space, but you rarely have the view you would with a main floor or upstairs room...unless you have a walkout with patio below and maybe deck above.

Oh, and don't forget the possiblity of screened porches, arbors, pergolas, and other outdoor features. I don't know if you like to garden (but this is Gardenweb) so I thought I'd mention it. Just some ideas :)

Thank you lavender lass. We thought the combo made sense. I dont know why so many people have such a strong opinion against it.
I dont think we can do a walkout but are having a play room, exercise room, jewelry room for me and theater room in the basement. There are sone places that can have a decent size window.

miffy - I think the combo space is great too. Lots of flexibility and I'm also not understanding why it can't be formal - except that dining and living often is a separate room when you do formal. So I guess call it semi-formal and you can furnish it however formal you want ;)

I think you got to do what works best for your family there. I know for certain that this space would be a plus to me if I were looking at buying over a formal dining and separate formal living.

I've never heard that formal spaces have to be by the entry. Just that is how it often works out. People want the spaces by the entry to look nice so it is a natural place for it - less used and less messy generally.

I like this second floor much better! I think I would rather have more closet in the bedroom than linen closet storage, though. What is the exterior problems you are worried about with the tub in that location?

I did a mockup of how you could change it just for inspiration.

This gives larger closets to bedroom 2 and 3.

Put the linen closets on the tub wall and vanity on the toilet wall and install use a pocket door instead of a real door. If you wanted, you might have room to put a small vanity in with the toilet and tub, and keep the outer vanity with a single sink to provide more counter space and storage underneath. Or you can go back to two sinks in the main area and orient the toilet back the way you had it.

Forgot to say, I would change master toilet door to a pocket. In-swing could be dangerous, and just a general annoyance, out-swing could get in the way of the main doorway.

I like this second floor version much better, as well. The bathrooms in the front and the views out the back...if those are your best views. It also puts the laundry by the bathroom, not the sitting area. Aa makes some nice changes, too...especially the second sink with the toilet. That's a great idea, especially with more than one child using the bathroom. And, it puts the closet over the garage, which seems to make a lot more sense, IMHO :)

The problem for the kids bathroom is making the window size and shape look nice over the front door.
We will have to look at exteriors to figure that out.
Do you think 13 ft by 15ft is big enough for king bed and two nightstands with dresser on opposite side of tv wall?
that is the master closet we are doing in either plan. We are getting rid of those outside linens.
What program do you guys use to change my pics?

What about something cool, like a round window or small arched window in the bathroom? That might look good over the entry.

Does anyone know what a reasonable cost for an architect to do the floor plans, elevations and construction drawings for this house would be? Does $16,000 seem right?

I just feel like it going to have to be bigger than the space would be with the tub there but, I could be wrong.
I also like the idea of the sinks next to eachother. I have a picture in my head of the boys standing next to eachother brushing their teeth every night when they get bigger. So, I dont like separating the sinks.
Do boys really need separate areas? I could see if I had a boy one girl.

The generic Paint program works fine for copy/paste, draw lines, etc.

Your image of the boys brushing their teeth side by side cracked me up. I haven't been exposed to that many sets of boys close in age, but of the ones I have experience with, that would not be something that would last very long! Actually, I would say boy/girl would need the most privacy, and girl/girl would need the least with boy/boy in the middle. Girls tend to congregate in the bathroom together - still do as adults. My sister and I had separate vanities, but we often made sure to be in there getting dressed at the same time to have someone to talk to or to get an opinion real quick.

The small sink in the toilet/tub area was more of an idea of just a bathroom within a bathroom. Even though you will not use bedroom 4 as a bedroom, the next occupant might and for this size of house, 3 bedrooms sharing one bathroom is not something I have really seen.

aa62579-they are 11 months and 2 years so leave me my delusions. We all can dream!