I'm having sprinklers and alarms. I hadn't considered special cooktop systems. I'll certainly have hand extinguishers as well.

Here's some crazy things we ran into having sprinkler systems installed in our new home in 2002. Sprinklers were required by the fire department based on the size of our home (7K SF). The installer informed us that we'd need to upgrade the size of our water meter from 5/8" to 1" to meet the water flow requirements. The local water company told us that the cost of the larger meter would be just over $14,000! The clerk informed me that that included the cost of the meter and installation plus the cost of adding capacity to the department's water supply, since residents with 1" meters use substantially more water than those with 5/8" meters. I patiently tried to explain that this was required for our FIRE sprinklers and that we weren't likely to wet down the entire house each morning just to be fire-safe. But, showing characteristic bureaucratic obstinance, the clerk informed me that there were NO exceptions. I had to appeal through four levels of management before I encountered someone with both common sense AND the authority to use it. Final cost of the meter upgrade: $386.

A second discovery had to do with painting the flat caps that cover the sprinkler heads in the ceiling. The caps came in white, black, polished brass or chrome. If you want another color (to match the color of your ceiling), they charge you $50 PER CAP to paint them. Well, you say, I'll just paint them myself! But the installer informed me that if I did, it would void the warranty. And if there were ever a malfunction, e.g., a sprinkler going off when it shouldn't and flooding the house, they would assume no responsibility. Gotcha! So I'm stuck with ceiling acne throughout the house because I didn't want do pay $50 a pop to paint the dozens of sprinkler caps.

Finally, make sure that your fire sprinkler alarm system can be monitored by whomever monitors you burglar alarm system. I'll likely save you enough money on your homeowners' insurance policy to pay for the monitoring each year.

Bob

don't mean to hijack, but how much are these systems running?

We are paying around $3200 for our fire sprinklers engineered and installed. We have about 2700 sqft. I feel it is definitely worth it as homes that experience fires with sprinklers in them have over 99% survival rate of occupants. Worth it for me and my family and we made it a priority in the budget. They are not required by code here.

Mikeyvon, would you mind describing your system? Do you have sprinklers throughout your house, or only in the garage and attic? Did you have any difficulty finding qualified installers?

I called the dealer listed for our area on the Kidde website, and he didn't appear to know anything about their systems. He mainly said it would be "real expensive" but couldn't give even a ballpark estimate. That's not too encouraging.

We've received all sorts of warnings about sprinkler systems (water damage exceeding possible fire damage, etc.) yet on the fire safety sites I read that the failure rate is miniscule. After seeing an attic fire in our neighborhood a couple of years ago and, more recently, dh's colleague's home lost to a fire that started in his attic, I'll take my chances.

We live in an area of SoCal that has seen it's fair share of wildland fires in the last couple of years (we've been evacuated twice). Our county gave us the option of indoor sprinklers or, since we have a well- a separate pump solely for the FD with a fire hydrant located on property. We opted for the pump. I feel safer knowing if there's a disaster there will be a bunch of FD trucks refilling from my water. Should a fire start inside my home we have that covered by a monitored alarm.

Home fire sprinklers have been around for well over 20 years and have a great track record. They have been in factories for over 100 years. Only the sprinkler that gets hot enough, and is close enough to the fire will operate, they all DO NOT go off at the same time. About 99% of the time only ONE sprinkler operates during a typical fire.

Hope this helps.

By the way smoke detectors do not put the fire out as fire sprinklers do.

Here are some web sites to get more information:
http://www.homefiresprinkler.org/

This company using the same PEX piping to connect the fire sprinklers to.
http://www.uponor-usa.com/Header/Systems/Fire/Overview.aspx

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/citizens/all_citizens/home_fire_prev/sprinklers/

http://www.firesafehome.org/sprinklers/firesprinklers.asp

A few more comments about fire sprinklers. Our system cost about $2/SF (7K SF in 2002), including heat detectors in the garage, an external fire bell and electronics to connect to the burglar alarm system. We were told that fire sprinklers aren't designed to keep your house from burning but rather to knock down the smoke sufficiently to allow the occupants to escape before succumbing to smoke inhalation. Not sure that's true or not but that was the word from the installer. Lastly, the system's alarm (bell and connection to the burglar alarm) are triggered whenever there's a drop in the pressure within the system. That could occur if the system was triggered but also if a substantial leak developed or a pipe broke.

Bob

Curious.... What is starting the attic fires?

More Web Sites

http://www.ircfiresprinkler.org/

http://www.homesafetycouncil.org/index.aspx

http://www.firesafehome.org/indexflash.html

The code used to install Home sprinklers is NFPA 13D, here is free acess to that code

If you do not have the latest NFPA codes and need to research the codes, here is link below. You can read BUT not print any NFPA code/standard.

Click on the code you want NFPA 13D

Then go to the bottom of the page and click on "Preview this document".

Then click I agree

Then click on the code you choose at the bottom of the page.
http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/list_of_codes_and_standards.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1

http://www.homefiresprinkler.org/images/sprinklers.PDF

This is a 10 year study on fire sprinklers in Scottsdale, AZ. Take a look at some of the pictures of sprinkler vs non sprinklered fires.

I'm not on city water, so I don't have to worry about that rip off. I had originally planned a separate storage/pump system to run the sprinklers, but it looks like my well (and a big assed variable speed pump) might work by itself.

I was a firefighter for years. I can tell you, fires are a non-event in sprinklered spaces. The times sprinklered buildings don't work is when the sprinklers are blocked from yes reaching the thing that's burning.

The "knock down the smoke" is nonsense. Throwing water into a smoky environment does NOTHING of the sort (in actuality it makes things worse). The water attacks the fire.

Actually the sprinklers are designed as a life safety device and not as a property device, meaning it was not designed to put the fire out. It was designed to keep the room cool enough to prevent flash over and keep conditions tentable for the occupants to get out of the room of origin. BUT in reality they do just that put the fire out. The water supply is for 10 minutes, at a flow of about 27 gpm for 2 sprinklers flowing thus your 275 gallon tank. Typically they are installed in the occupied living spaces only, so attics would not have sprinklers. Nor would garages or basements. However so juridictions modify NFPA 13D to cover garages and basements. So bottom line check with your local fire inspector.

As far as alarms are concerned they should be connected to the fire department. No use calling the police department as a burglar alarm since they may not show up, or will not have the means to put the remaining fire out. The sprinkler alarms operate by water flow, not drop in pressure. A slow water leak would not be picked up the sprinkler water flow switch.

As far as water damage is concerned, how many other water devices do you have in your house? The insurance industry pays for more broken china toilets, frozen plumbing, refrigerator ice water lines then it does for malfunctioning sprinklers.

That's a lot a helpful information. Thank you.

Vancleaveterry, the recent fire that destroyed dh's colleague's house is still under investigation. From what I've heard, it sounds as if it might have had something to do with HVAC equip. in the attic. The one in our neighborhood began with some teens and a knocked over candle. I also recall a post on THS about a fire started when birds built a nest on an exterior wall light with a broken cover - the straw caught fire from the heat of the lightbulb and the fire went into the attic through soffit vents.

Real life story on how the home fire sprinkler systsm saved the day.

Here is a link that might be useful: Home Sprinkler Save

As the U.S. Fire Administrator, it is my job to direct programs implemented to reduce the loss of life and property due to fire and related emergencies, through leadership, advocacy, coordination, and support. In that role, I would like to address members of the Fire Service, homeowners, home builders, and other interested parties about the powerful protection from fire provided by residential fire sprinkler systems and why all homes should be equipped with them.

Every day the U.S. Fire Administration collects news stories from our Nation's media that deal with the tragic loss of life from fire in American homes. In January and February alone, over 300 people lost their lives in home fires. Commercial buildings such as schools, office buildings, and factories have benefited from fire protection sprinkler systems for over a century. But what about our homes? Although we protect our businesses from fire, what actions do we take to protect our families, our homes, and our possessions from fire? Millions of Americans have installed smoke alarms in their homes in the past few years, but a smoke alarm can only alert the occupants to a fire in the house. It cannot contain or extinguish a fire. Residential fire sprinkler systems can.

In the year 2006, 19% of all reported fires occurred in one- and two-family structures; however, these fires caused 66% of the fire deaths in the United States over 2,100 people died in their own homes. In addition, approximately 25 firefighter deaths occur during responses to residential fires each year. Despite the fact that these statistics represent improvement over the last 30 years, they continue to be appalling. Such losses are unacceptable.

Since the 1970's, the U.S. Fire Administration has promoted research studies, development, testing, and demonstrations of residential fire sprinkler systems and smoke alarms. These efforts, in concert with heroic efforts by many organizations and individuals, have resulted in the adoption of requirements to install smoke alarms in all new residential construction. In many jurisdictions, the retrofit of smoke alarms into existing residential occupancies has been mandated. Together, these initiatives have saved many lives.

The results have been different, however, with respect to residential fire sprinkler systems; only a few jurisdictions have mandated their installation in new construction, and none have mandated retrofit of existing one- and two-family housing stock. The Center for Fire Research at the National Institute of Standards and Technology has studied the impact of both smoke alarms and sprinklers in residential occupancies, and estimates that:

When fire sprinklers alone are installed in a residence, the chances of dying in a fire are reduced by 69%.
When smoke alarms alone are installed in a residence, a reduction in the death rate of 63% can be expected.
When both smoke alarms and fire sprinklers are present in a home, the risk of dying in a fire is reduced by 82%, when compared to a residence without either.
Much has been written about the reduction of residential fire deaths due to improvements in building codes and the installation of smoke alarms. Without a doubt, these have had a substantial impact on the home fire problem. The annual number of fire deaths in residential occupancies continues to decline. The trend in fire death data, however, shows that the number of residential fire deaths is declining at a slower rate over the past 10 years than it did in the period 1977 through 1995.

Full-scale fire tests in residential settings suggest one explanation for this slowing in the rate of decline in residential fire deaths. The research shows that the available time to escape a flaming fire in a home has decreased significantly from 17 minutes in 1975 to only 3 minutes in 2003. This decrease in time to escape has been attributed to the difference in fire growth rates of home furnishings. In short, a fire involving modern furnishings grows faster than a fire involving older furnishings. The practical impact of this finding is clear  smoke alarms alone may not provide a warning in time for occupants to escape a home fire.

We at USFA have carefully reviewed the data and the relevant research and it is our official position that all Americans should be protected against death, injury, and property loss resulting from fire in their residences. All homes should be equipped with smoke alarms and automatic fire sprinklers, and families should prepare and practice emergency escape plans. The Fire Administration fully supports all efforts to reduce the tragic toll of fire losses in this nation by advocating these actions, including the proposed changes to the International Residential Code that would require automatic sprinklers in all new residential construction.

Only fire sprinklers can detect fire AND automatically control it  affording families the time to make a safe escape and protect valuables and property. Please join with us in helping to save lives by supporting the installation of residential fire sprinklers in all American homes.

The Arguments Against Sprinklers
Myth Fact
"Water damage from a sprinkler system will be more extensive than fire damage." Water damage from a sprinkler system will be much less severe than the damage caused by water from firefighting hoselines or smoke and fire damage if the fire goes unabated. Quick response sprinklers release 8 to 24 gallons of water per minute compared to 50 to 125 gallons per minute released by a firehose.

Sprinklers are highly reliable devices that are activated by heat. They will only go off if there is a fire which increases the heat beyond the sprinkler trigger point (typically 135 to 165°F (57.2 to 73.9°C)). Preaction systems employ additional safety features.

Research has demonstrated that only 1 in 16 million heads ever activates by accident.

Sprinkler systems can be connected to an alarm monitoring company or an external alarm that will notify neighbors or passersby of a water flow. This will facilitate the prompt notification of the fire department and will minimize that amount of water damage.
"When a fire occurs, every sprinkler head goes off." Sprinkler heads are individually activated by fire. Residential fires are usually controlled with one sprinkler head, and 90 percent of all fires are controlled with six or fewer heads. A study conducted in Australia and New Zealand covering 82 years of automatic sprinkler use found that 82 percent of the fires that occurred were controlled by two or fewer sprinklers.
"Sprinklers steal water from the fire department hoselines." A properly designed sprinkler system (for commercial structures) includes water supplies for the system and fire department hose streams.
"A smoke alarm provides enough protection." Smoke alarms save lives by providing a warning system but can do nothing to extinguish a growing fire or protect those physically unable to escape on their own, such as the elderly or small children. Too often, battery-operated smoke alarms fail to function because the batteries are dead or have been removed. As the percent of homes in America that were "protected" with smoke alarms increased from zero to more than 70 percent, the number of fire deaths in homes did not significantly decrease.
"Sprinklers are designed to protect property, but are not effective for life safety." Sprinklers provide a high level of life safety. Statistics demonstrate that there has never been any multiple loss of life in a fully sprinklered building. Property losses are 85 percent less in residences with fire sprinklers compared to those without sprinklers. The combination of automatic sprinklers and early warning systems in all buildings and residences could reduce overall injuries, loss of life, and property damage by at least 50 percent.
"The added cost of sprinklers will make housing unaffordable to first-time buyers." A sprinkler system costs one to two percent of the total construction costs. The cost of a sprinkler system is comparable to what many people pay for carpet upgrades, a paving stone driveway, or a whirlpool bath.

In many U.S. communities where sprinkler systems are available, consumers are requesting this feature and houses with sprinkler systems are selling faster than those without.
"It is unfair to target new construction because new buildings are safer than older buildings." There are more fires in older buildings because older buildings comprise a larger portion of the country's structural inventory.

There are more deaths and injuries in older dwellings because demographically identifiable groups who are more susceptible to fire, such as the elderly and people of low socioeconomic status, tend to live in older homes.

Modern construction techniques such as webbed truss construction, vented soffits, and human-made composite materials, make newer houses far more susceptible to serious damage from fire.

New structures built today will be older structures tomorrow; it makes sense to start now and use the technology that is available in order to build safer communities.

Fire is the leading threat to seriously damage or destroy structures; earthquakes, flooding, and other natural disasters lag far behind.
"Sprinklers are ugly, I don't want them in my space." Residential and commercial sprinkler heads come in a variety of unobtrusive styles and models and in designer colors. Some can be mounted flush with the ceiling line, and concealed behind protective covers.
"Sprinkler systems are not practical in cold climates, the pipes will freeze and cause water damage." In commercial applications, dry pipe and preaction sprinklers provide an alternative to water-filled pipes. Anchorage, Alaska, has had a residential sprinkler ordinance in place for more than 10 years and residents have not experienced a single sprinkler system freeze-up.

Specially molded insulation is available to ensure that piping in unheated attics is properly insulated and protected from freezing.

A variety of sidewall sprinkler heads are available. Sidewall sprinkler piping is placed in the interior walls to prevent exposure to cold attics, and eliminating the concern for freezing.

Residential sprinkler systems use plastic and copper piping similar to that used for domestic water systems. If the heat in a house drops to a level where the sprinkler system will freeze, it is likely that the domestic system will also freeze. There is no unique danger of freezing with sprinkler systems that does not already exist with domestic water systems.
"Smoke alarms set fire sprinklers off." Fire sprinklers and smoke alarm systems are designed to activate according to different conditions. Sprinkler heads are individually heat activated, usually at 165°F.

Smoke alarms, when activated, give only an audible warning sound; they do not cause fire sprinklers to flow water. In commercial applications where flooding volumes are needed to control hazardous areas, preaction and deluge systems may use smoke detection for early notification and operation.
"Smoke alarms will put the fire out!" This is a dangerous and misleading statement that is many times made on the basis that smoke alarms will alert the occupants who will then get a fire extinguisher to put out the fire.

Untrained persons should only use fire extinguishers to fight small incipient fires. The number-one priority when you hear a smoke alarm or a fire alarm is to get everyone out of the building.
"Fire sprinkler systems are not reliable." Laboratory testing and a 50-year installation/activation history clearly show that fire sprinkler systems exceed a 95 percent "fail-safe" status.
"Property will have to pay an expensive yearly testing fee." Like any piece of mechanical equipment, sprinkler systems must be inspected, tested, and maintained to ensure a high degree of reliability. No one would buy a car and then never bother to change the oil, tires, or get a tune-up.

Testing fees will be directly related to the market demand.
"Insurance costs will go up due to fire sprinkler system ruptures and leaks." Consider these facts:
Sprinkler head failure rate is one in 16 million.
Domestic plumbing ruptures and leaks are over a 1000 to 1 ratio compared to sprinkler system ruptures and leaks.
If an insurance company wants to place a surcharge on your policy because you have a sprinkler system, there are other insurance companies that value the reliability and effectiveness of fire sprinkler systems and will reduce your policy premiums if you have fire sprinkler protection, especially in rural or "unprotected areas" in our country.
Some insurance companies are the leading advocates for fire sprinkler systems to protect the risks they must underwrite.
"Fire sprinkler systems cause taxes to go up." Not when local government practices fiscal diligence.

While the overall property value increases in sprinklered buildings, the fire protection costs may go down, especially in communities that can maximize all the benefits afforded by using fire sprinkler protection. Reductions in water service sizes, hydrant spacing, fire service costs, and damage repair can be reduced.

Some progressive local governments offer tax incentives to encourage homeowners to install fire sprinkler systems in their dwellings.
"People will install fire sprinkler systems on a non-mandatory basis." A 200-year history clearly shows that safety equipment and safety systems are rarely installed when left to good intentions.

Getting fire sprinklers installed in a community so that all of the "trade-up" advantages can be maximized usually requires mandated legislation or local ordinances.

A spotty, hit-and-miss application of fire sprinkler system installation is not the most cost-effective way of achieving all of the benefits afforded from fire sprinklers.

From a life safety, property conservation point of view, there will be no significant change in these horrendous statistics until fire sprinklers are required by law to protect those who cannot adequately protect themselves.

Are you planning to build your home in any of these communities, if so you may have to install automatic sprinkler protection.

Hi Mikeyvon,
It looks like there is a pretty good chance we will have to install fire sprinklers in our new home, could you share what type of system you used? TIA,
Lucky

Ours system still has not been install. That will happen in a couple of weeks. I will have to take a look at the engineering paperwork and get back to you. I do not know too much about our fire sprinkler system as it is one of the few things I am subbing completely out. I just told em what I wanted, put bids out, picked one, and said get it done. Our fire Dept required a engineered system to get certain breaks (like not needed to put in a fire hydrant).

badin - sorry for never answering your questions. We are having the sprinklers installed in the basement and throughout the house on both floors. We do not have an attic. Installers we easy to find. There were three companies in the nearest city that did residential sprinklers.

We currently are not required by code to have them, but the idea of it being a requirement is being pushed heavily in our county.

well i have a different take on all of this. i built my house out of steel used 5/8" sheetrock throughout, solid core doors, stucco exterior and concrete tile roof. my research showed most fires are caused by human error in the kitchen and most fires leading to death are caused by a drunk passing out smoking. simply adding a fire sprinkler to the kitchen on the domestic water supply for a nominal cost would prevent 10% of fatalities -- yet the sprinkler companies are against this because they want to sell full house sprinklers -- every possible square inch not designed for actual safety. i fought with the fire marshall and we compromised on a system with 9 heads, 1 in each bedroom, the halls and kitchen. there is a direct path out for anyone. i actually installed it for a minimal cost.

Thanks for your responses. I spoke to the Fire Marshall this morning and he said in our area he cannot actually 'make' us put in fire sprinklers, but he strongly recommends it and they will look at our water supply as well. Because of the size of our home he told us it would be difficult to control a fire with the pumper truck alone as there is no hydrant. Another issue is, our insurance company *may not* cover us if we don't put in fire sprinklers, or they may just up our premiums significantly. We'll see. msm59-we were sort of thinking along the lines you are talking about. Perhaps using our plumber and putting in a system that would cover the most likely areas for a fire, and insuring safe egress. It will be interesting to see what we can come up with. Mikeyvon, thanks for checking into your what your system is, we have about 3500sf and were 'ballparked' $2.25 psf. for a complete system. Ouch!

Add fires in the garage and clothes dryers to the popular causes list. The decline in smoking is phasing out the wayward cigarette ingnites the upholstery / bedding mode.

luckymom23 my system complete cost @ $700 vs your quote of @$7850 -- a $7k savings for something that statistically you will probably never need. Designed solely for life saving is a lot less expensive. I do not have the flow alarm outside -- was expensive. Reality is if a fire starts my concern would be do I finish what i am doing before i call the fire department and do i wait for them to get here before i go outside?