We don't have laminate yet, but it is going in the house under construction. My stepdaughter replaced her builder-grade hardwood in her entryway, kitchen, and family room about three years ago because it had not worn well under the demands of her household: harsh Michigan winters and accompanying snow and sandy soil tracked in the house, 4 of the most active children you could ever know, dogs, lots and lots of children's friends in and out all the time. Stuff gets spilled, the puppies have accidents, and snow on the boots melts and leaves puddles on the floor. The last time we were there, the laminate seemed to be holding up just fine to all of that. I didn't see any bad spots, even by the door where the most concentrated and messy traffic is. Hope that helps. Good luck!

All laminate is not created equal. Cheap laminates can have a very thin wear layer and won't hold up when things scratch it or are dropped on it. Their base layers may not be as tough either. We had Wilsonart Estate Plus in our last house and it wore like iron...through 3 dogs and 7 kids...and we're not a 'remove your shoes' household. It was in for about 5 or 6 years before we moved and still looked like new. We used the squares in 2 colors of tan/brown, so it was kind of a checkerboard tile look. I think it would've lasted years and years and looked just as nice. It gave me no reason to think otherwise.

We put in the best acoustic pad underneath that we could, so that we wouldn't get the plasticky, clicky noise. It worked. The floor didn't sound any different to walk on than the hardwood it butted up to.

oruboris, we just purchased our Bruce laminate and we also purchased the "best" Armstrong underlayment that was offered. It feels like thick rubber to the touch. I'm confident we won't be hearing that click, click, click of the dogs. My daughter in law has it in her second floor bedroom and says it's very quiet.

I have had laminate in kitchen and main living areas for the last 5-6 years. We have a large dog and two kids. It has held up great. The dogs nails tend to click when she walks, but it also holds up to her "digging" against its surface. There are no scratches at all from her. The stuff looks like the day I installed it. I will however say, we now have our house on the market and have gotten some negative feedback about the floors, I guess people like sanding!

Even if it's expensive laminate.....it's still laminate. Basically paper.

Back in the 1970's, fake wood panelling was the rage ....also a fake paper product. Now it's considered crappy. I rate laminate floors in the same category as the panelling.....just awful paper.

There are other options too. How about cork or bamboo. A little something different is a good thing. All of a sudden everyone wants wood flooring.....even if they can't afford it and get the paper imitation. To me, anything is a better alternative to paper.

wallykasey, you're not being fair. Have you seen the new laminates that have the sheen of hardwood and 20 year warranties. I would say that's more than just "paper."

Here is a link that might be useful: Bruce Laminate

One comment re your 3rd sentence -- surface laid hydronic tubing does not require a floating floor.

Mine is surface-laid in alum xfer plates stapled onto 3/4" x 7" x length strips of OSB spaced 8" O.C. My flooring is 3-1/4" wide hardwood. You need to be careful when stapling the flooring down and there were a total of four accidents, easily fixed, in approx 3,000 sq ft of flooring. It gets tricky where the tubing congregates at the manifolds but is otherwise easy to staple down.

As for laminate, get the best wear warranty you can afford (usually means thicker wear layer). The pad is important but will not have much effect on stopping surface noise caused by dog nails or anything else.

I had laminate in my old house in the kitchen. I loved the ease of cleaning it, but it was the click kind and not good if you got a lot of water. We had the pipes come off under the sink and wet the area. We wiped up immediately, but the seems still shrunk some.

I think if you get a glue together type it is better for potential water spills, but if it manages to get underneath I still think you'll have problems.

Thanks for the help so far... hope more will chime in.

I am using cork on the upper floor where there will be a lot less traffic, but I'm not willing to take the risk for the public spaces on the main level. Not interested in bamboo, either, for the same reason I'm not looking at wood. I'm glad to hear some people have wood over surface hydronic, but it goes against all the reccomendations from the heating people, and again, I'm not going to risk it.

I understand the laminate=paper veiwpoint. I don't generally care for 'faux' anything. But it goes back to the wear issue-- I don't want to have to worry about refininshing in a few years. Price matters, of course, but wood [at least the character grade that I like] is about half what the best laminates run.

Last night I was pretty certian I'd go with the laminate, today I'm leaning towards tile again. Arghh.

We went with Pergo Select laminate, because we have 4 active terriers. We've had it for 3 year, and it still looks great. The Pergo Select has a residential lifetime warranty, meaning it is covered as long as we are in the house.
The dogs claws do make the Click Click sound, but I'd go with this laminate again. Good luck.

The underlayment does have an impact on the noise level, that's part of the reason for buying the better underlayment. It's an easy test. You can take a gulf ball and tap it on a piece of laminate with and without the underlayment and their is a distinct difference in the noise that's heard. Also, if you buy the high end laminate is it very thick, thus helping with the noise factor also.

Armstrong recommends that you use a particular type of glue on the seams if you install the flooring in wet areas. If you look at the clicking mechanism of the high end laminate you'll see it's designed now so the water has a tougher time getting to the underside of the laminate. You literally have to have water sit for extended periods of time before it works it's way through the seam and still then it doesn't always warp as did some of the older laminates. It is my understanding the wood will also warp if exposed to sitting water.

Originally we were going to install porcelain throughout the house, again because of the pets, but then after seeing the new laminates that look so beautiful, we thought no, we can have the warmth and comfort of wood instead. We opted to tile the wet area of the house though and the foyer. The other main consideration is that laminate is so much easier on the joints than tile. Just another plus for laminate.

We have had laminate flooring in our last 2 homes, they both sold last year with no negative comments regarding the floors...that we know of anyway! :) We bought the best ones we could get at the time and most people assumed they were wood and were surprised when we told them they were laminate. We have 3 kids and used to have a dog and they wore very well up to all the traffic. I think they are a great option especially for DIY, which is what we did.
Good Luck!

We had laminate hardwoods in our last home and did not like them.

We had a water leak while we were on vacation and we came home to warped floors that could not be refinished.

The replacement laminate did not match(same brand and color) as the old floors had faded in the sunlight.

In our current home we went with site finished hardwoods.

When we build, I am planning on going with Mannington Adura laminate hardwood for our laundry/mudroom floor and also our formal dining room. For the laundry/mudroom, it's a maintenance issue-- although you can damage it if you try hard enough, it is highly impervious to things like dirt, water, scratching and denting. And with the dark color of the flooring, I won't stress out over every blade of grass and grit that gets tracked in-- I probably won't even notice and give up mopping for good--LOL

For the formal dining room, I have an antique rug, 12' x 9'.5", that I inherited years ago and have been waiting patiently to display it. Frankly, for the amount of "wood" you will see at the perimiter of this room I don't see any reason to go with the real thing. That's only my opinion. I have ALOT of other places I would like to put our money in a 6,232 sq.ft. house!

Orubois, I feel the same way you do - hardwood is beautiful but just won't work with our family. We have Golden Retrievers and absolutely no wooden/cork/bamboo floor can withstand the pressure damage from their nails. I have gone over the pros and cons of the various floor materials and everytime the bottom line comes out to laminate.

Have you seen the new line of Bruce laminate called Park Avenue? (I think that's the name) I went into a flooring store to see the Berry Laminate line. The owner of the store said Berry is the number one rated floor (but he didn't specify who did the rating) but then he said, let me show you this, though. He pulled out the Bruce sample display and I was blown away. This stuff looks amazingly realistic. He cut me a sample from an open box and I am impressed with the 'heft' of the material.

I have not seen this material installed so I can do a 'click' test, but at this point, I am feeling better about having to go with laminate. We aren't building for a couple of more years so I still hope for a miracle product that is organic, can withstand dogs, easy-care, has no grout, and is easy on the legs and feet. Is that asking too much?? LOL

No matter what quality/type padding/underlayment under laminate, it's not going to stop the "click" of the dogs nails. Always get a quality underlayment for other reasons, but for the dogs, keeping the nails trimmed will help and is good for the dog(s) as well. Unless your dogs are hard to handle, clipping is pretty easy to diy. Ask a pet groomer for advise on a quality trimmer as well as a clotting compound in the event you trim into the quick.

sierra, I know it doesn't stop the clicking completely, but it helps. Trimming the nails is essential to keep the noise down for sure.

nanj, I have the Park Avenue Makore and it is beautiful. We can't wait to live on it. LOL

We have in floor heating on both levels of our home (main level has the tubes set in gypcrete). We put laminate all through the living and dining areas, and throughout most of the downstairs as well. We have two active kids and one medium sized dog (border collie cross), and overall, I've been very happy with the laminate (we will have been here 3 years in June).

Ours is Laurentian brand, although it may only be available in Canada. It has wide textured planks with a beveled edge, which I think looks less "plastic-y" than the older style flat laminates.

Here's a couple of pics:

We haven't had any major water spills, so I can't really comment on that. The only place I was disappointed with the laminate was in the office (I work at home, so it's a high use area), where the roller wheels on the chairs seemed to be very hard on the finish. I now have an area rug under the chair, but the wear would be noticeable of the room were empty.

Our flooring company stated up front that they would not warranty hardwood over in floor heating. We could have gone with an engineered wood product, but the cost was higher than the laminate, and we were on a budget. We plan for this to be our "forever" house, but with a young family and pets, we're comfortable that this will likely not be our forever floor, LOL.

Carrie

brutuses, your right on about a quality underlayment/flooring will definetely tone it down, but overall, what's a little clickin' from the dog? When i was a kid, we had a cocker spaniel that would chase oranges off of the trees. Through the kitchen dropping into the den on old asbestos tiles, the click factor was huge and made for some great 20' slides into the den only to be abrubtly stopped by a wall. Tough little dog, that cocker!

Haven't seen the Bruce 'Park Avenue', but I've got a couple sample boards of Armstrong's 'Grand Illusions' which I *think* is similar, from what I've seen online.

I don't know how it wears, but Grand Illusion looks amazing-- it's a very formal, high gloss floor. Great detail and depth of color, really hard to spot as a laminate. I'm thinking something matte and textured would probably show less wear with the dog's nails, and suits the aesthetic I'm going for.

The one I'm lean towards is Berry floor's Oxford Oak. Like a lot of the Berrys, it has woodgrain texture pressed into the surface that exactly matches the visual graining, plus each board is chamfered on all four sides. Some of the other Berrys are available with a 'hand scrapped' finish, which I don't care for: it ends up looking too regular for my tastes when installed over a large area. They also do extra wide and long boards [over 6 feet!] in some lines. I'm not sure how much more 'real' the longer stuff would look.

Hard to tell in a picture, but this gives you some idea of the textured [but not 'scraped']:
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Berry makes some laminates that are 'moisture rated', sadly none of the woods available in the US are.

They are a click together, so I can't get moisture resitance via glue. Does anyone know if it would be helpful/acceptible to seal the seams with something along the lines of a water based poly, similar to how grout is sealed?

Anyone know of any sort-of-rustic laminates I should look at before I commit?

I believe the armstrong grand illusions and the bruce Park Avenue are the same product. They seem to be the same company since if you go to armstrongs website, you can get to the Bruce product as well. Both seem to have the exact same features and warranties. I will be getting one of those lines in the walnut.

carrie and oruboris, your floors look like real wood.
marjen I'm sure they are the same product, just under different labels. I don't know where you are planning on buying yours, but I was able to get a fabulous price from a local flooring store because they had ordered an entire tractor trailer so were able to sell it real cheap. I needed 1400 sq. ft. so needed a break!!

The sound of a good laminate with good pad is a million times better than a bad laminate or bad pad. Even the best laminate will have the tick sound from a dogs nails. Trimming the nails of our Corgi kept them short enough that they didn't tick.

Having installed laminates that comes with the pad already attached from both Armstrong and Witex, I'd have to give Witex the vote for the best product. It is more dense and heavy, including the pad. Just a better product, in my opinion.

When I was reviewing the product I purchased I noted that Armstrong recommends an additional pad with their already padded floors for extra noise control.

The Wiltex is 10 MM thick while the Bruce Laminate is 12 MM thick. I want as thick and sturdy as possible to stand up to my heavy file cabinets. I also like that the Park Avenue line has almost 5" wide single planks rather than very wide planks with planks on them. I do love the finishes so much on the Wiltex line.

We put very good laminate in our basement family room and I will NEVER use laminate again. A small amount of water leaked and the laminate swelled and looks awful. Our college student son dropped a student size refrigerator he was moving and it put a huge gouge in the laminate - it's green under the wood color.

Now both these things would've happened to wood floor also, but in both places the wood would've been fixable with just a little work. No so for the laminate. It's needs to be replaced and it has to be taken out from the "starting" wall all the way to the damaged areas - which are on the other side of the room. There is no way to replace just the damaged areas.

We're going to rip up all 1100 sq feet and put down tile.

And I won't buy a house with laminate flooring without heavily discounting the price. I'd rather have vinyl than laminate.

Yikes... I ordered the Berry laminate a couple weeks ago, will be installed shortly. Keeping my fingers crossed...

I got a narrower plank than most, because the fine old homes I've been in locally don't use the super wide ones, and I'm trying for a pre-1930 look.

The particular one I've got has chanels cut in the back, supposed to help with sound. Seems rather slick, hope the dogs learn to walk on it.

I was quite in love with a distressed hickory engineered, but the time frame was wrong and it would have cost an extra $10,000 for two rooms. Maybe someday down the road...

Oruboris, please post pics when your laminate floors are installed. Which species does the Berry Laminate imitate? Can't wait to see your pics when you have time.

In case you are trying to compare laminate and hardwood, I don't think it is possible. They are just two very different products. We have laminate in our little cottage next door to our house but have hickory hardwood in our home.
The laminate clicks and feels light and cheap while the hardwood feels substantial and no noise when walking on it. I guess I have just compared the two(lol) but we had a dog on the hardwood and there are scratches but nothing that you can easily see unless you get on your hands and knees. Plus, you can refinish hardwood and if the laminate gets trashed you have to replace the whole thing! If I had to choose between tile and laminate I would choose tile. Anyway, good luck, after all, it is just a matter of personal choice, right?

Oruboris,

Has your Berry laminate been installed yet? Do you have photos? Forgive me for being pushy. I'm just excited. :^)

I think I am going with Berry as well. I have fallen "in love" with the Castle Rock, Red Oak. It is just what I have been looking for. Now to find somewhere that doesn't have too high a price tag on it!

Not intstalled yet... it's a long story, I'm still hoping for a happy ending, but you never know.

Will try to post some pics once it's down.

sorry I can't resist...wouldn't it be more cost effective (and healthier) to simply get what you want and keep the dogs nails clipped. Dog nails should not click...that means they are walking on their nails and not their pads...sorry had to do it...hehe

Might work if you have dogs that walk politely, but I have a 110pound akita and a 54 pound bull terrier, age 3 and 2 respectively. They play chase and wrestle and tug-o-war constantly. Their nails WILL be in contact with the floor, with much energy and enthusiasm [the Jack Russle is 16, so he isn't much of a player. Neither is the min pin, but she is an enthusiastic cheerleader who loves dash in and nip whover seems to be winning at the moment.

And I do keep their nails properly maintained, for what its worth.

Depends on a few things.
How much is your house? In your area, do houses in your price range have laminate, or is hardwood standard?
how big is your dog? how old is your dog? how crazy is your dog?
would you clean a spill up quickly and how often would you spill?
when are you planning on reselling the house?
ask your realtor if laminates would be a bad thing for your house. you can do laminate now, then in a few years, if it isnt suiting you, replace it. if it is, then you saved a bunch of money and are happy.
we have a 2 yr old 100lb lab, she is VERY rough on the floors, but the laminate has zero scratches, and the hardwood trim is getting a beating. when she gets startled or looses traction... out come the nails. If we had hardwoods, we would have to refinish the floors before we sell the house, no doubt, so we would have had to triple our flooring budget, AND refinish before we moved!

some laminate can be as expensive as hardwood, installation is also a very different in price, so do what fits your budget. We liked the color for the cheapest lam lowes had, we couldnt be happier. if it was the same price, of course hardwood is the only option, but it wasnt. that is precisely why laminates were created.

laminate is also a little softer for falling babies. we have a 4 month old and real hardwoods or tile would give me anxiety attacks everyday, and she cant even crawl yet.

in the end, it is what you like. 5-10 years down the line, you can rip it up and start over if you like, but do get a better pad, that makes a difference.

Elevator mechanic here....watched a building install laminate in their elevator cab and chuckled thinking it would get trashed. After 5 years, it looked new, wood lobby floor was shot...sold me. If we sell the house and it's a problem then, I'll replace it with real wood. In the meantime, it sure is tougher than any wood you'll find...way easier to maintain....and I'm the one living here now.

We've been looking at houses to buy and laminate will not stop me from purchasing but I know the first thing we'll do before moving in is rip it out. We have 3 dogs and have laminate in the room they stay in. They all hate it. I have to put down large area rugs for them because they slide too much and don't like to walk on it. We can walk into a house and tell it's laminate right away. It just looks all the same and it has the same threshold at all the doorways. If it works for you, great. We were actually thinking of ripping out laminate and just staining and polishing the concrete foundation floors. Dogs will be happy and it will be easy to clean.

dktrahan - I have stained concrete floors and my dogs slip and slide all the time. In fact, I would think that polished concrete would be worse than laminate flooring.

Thanks for the heads up Kellyeng. I don't want to be a slave to area rugs to make the floors dog friendly.

Do you have any type of finish on your concrete floors? We're just beginning to research them and a company in town is advertising a stain/polish finish that doesn't require any type of top coating.

Our floor is acid stained and is sealed with a water based poly and then waxed with a matte finish. We are suppose to wax periodically. I've never heard of a stain that also has a finish. You might want to post a new thread with this question.

It isn't a stain with a finish. They just stain first and then mechanically polish the floor. I was reading about it on their website and someone here in Houston has recommended them although they didn't get their floors done.

Here is a link that might be useful: Stained Concrete

Why not use an anti-slip finish? I am always appalled that people permit slick flooring of any sort.

There a number of different brands available, some providing finishes in high gloss, medium, or matte. Those designed for use in commercial kitchens are usually exceptionally easy to keep clean.

Here is a link that might be useful: anti-slip additive.

I wonder, though, if the anti-slip treatments are compatible with laminate flooring.

It would be nice, since whatever you mix it with would seal the seams, provide a bit of moisture resistance, but then you'd have the sort of finish that can be worn off, and chipping, flaking varnish or poly is part of what ultimately scared me away from wood.

If anyone knows of an anti-slip treatment that can be used with laminate, I [and others, I bet] would love to hear about it...