ladycfp-- Don't blame keeth. What he's described is bulletproof, and for someone who's never heard of, or seen Kerdi demonstrated, or read the data sheets on it, I don't blame him for his take on the styrofoam, etc..

keeth, it took me a long time to come around, as well, but believe me, it works. Even the styrofoam. As crazy as it sounds, no compression, or anything. And as for the membrane, I've been building steam showers now for about 8 years, and of all the products I've used, Kerdi's the best I've found so far, and I figure if it can contain a steam shower, a regular shower should be a cake walk for this system. I've been installing Kerdi showers since 2005, and I've yet to get a callback on them.

You might want to check into it. There's another forum site I go into, and one of the forums there is strictly for pros. Take a look-see with the link below:

Here is a link that might be useful: John Bridge's Pros' Hangout

Here's what he did yesterday. Please let me know if you see anything I should be concerned about. I was wondering before why the SLC kind of petered out at the door, now I see he has ended the Ditra there as well.

To Ladycfp,

You photos are missing a detail that should be addressed.
Is there indeed a shower pan coupled to the shower drain and having folds vertically about the outside of the curb? Does the pan protect the two tiled back walls? Was it water tested? In other words if you fill the shower floor with water level to the the of the drain will you leak water outside the shower area? You can check this out now or find out the hard way.

keeth,

It's a kerdi shower.

You can see the Kerdi drain sitting in the preslope. The pan won't be watertight until kerdi membrane is installed on the preslope, on the curb, and down on to the drain flange.

Kerdi is topical membrane, is goes on top of the preslope on top of the curbs, and on the face of the cement board on the walls. You then thinset the tile directly to the Kerdi.

The water test can't be done until the preslope is kerdied.

Mongo

Keeth-- go to the following link and check the system out:

Here is a link that might be useful: Schluter Kerdi

Man this has been an interesting read.Kudos to Bill and Mongo for helping this gal out.I hope anyone reading this in the future realizes how important the very first step is in building a new shower.When I explain this to my customers some think that It's no big deal.I would love to direct them this.

Here's the update in pictures. Keep in mind (if it matters) the left side of the curb in front gets the most water from the shower head we usually use, the one mounted to the left on the back wall.

Tile guy told me he is also applying a substance called Hydroban (?) over the kerdi, just in case.

He also said he cut strips of Ditra to fill in at the door.

Hope someone besides me benefits from this. All these eyes on my project certainly make me feel better. Please feel free to weigh in. Thanks.

The Hydroban isn't necessary, and I'd almost recommend against it. That's one waterproof membrane right up against another. In your research, have you heard of something called a "moisture sandwich"?

As for the strips of Ditra at the door, that's fine.

Thanks Bill. I passed your comments on to him and he said he would re-think it and let me know.

No hydroban. No no no hydroban.

This has been a painful thread to watch, more so from the fact that I've enjoyed the original threads that had to do with your shower's construction the first time around.

Others will benefit.

I also applaud you in that you didn't get sucked into the "easy fix".

When the glass guy pulled the panel, he destroyed your curb, which destroyed your pan, which destroyed your floor.

It's one of those occasions where it's tempting to use a band-aid to make things better, but where the tool that's really needed is a bone saw.

It's been tough to see your bathroom dismantled, but it was the right thing to do.

Toodles,

Mongo

I didn't get sucked into an easy fix because you told me not to! The applause is for YOU! I wouldn't even have known what was wrong without you! I wouldn't have the beautiful finished product I had and will have again because of you! I mean all of you reading this. And now because of you, I won't have Hydroban on my kerdi. Thanks again. Will post more pictures tomorrow.

I showed the tile guy Mongo's "no, no, no" so I'm thinking he will pass on the hydroban. Thanks again.

Friday's work. Also, what is this about a water test I read on another thread? At what stage is this performed and should I involve myself with this?

This is the area where the water tends to hit from the shower. Am I right to be particularly concerned about this?

Also, this seems very loose to me. I presume he will affix it further tomorrow.

Thanks!

A water test is when the drain is plugged and the pan filled with water, then left to sit for 24 hours. It tests the integrity of the pan. No leaks, etc.

Not a lot done yesterday. Tile guy was waiting on the shower tiles and brought them over around noon. No water test, either, and too late for that now I imagine. Should I freak? Insist? Move on?

Ahh.... the end is in sight!!! I'm so glad for you and you'll be showering in no time!

Your workers are WAY better than any we've had though. There is no way that my marble seat would have escaped unharmed if I hadn't covered it up.

The marble seat has been the least of my worries. Who knows what shape that is in? Not me! Hopefully it is no worse for the wear. Guess I need to inquire into that!

Seems like a long way to go still. Glass is here first of the week they said, and they hope to move fixtures back the end of this week. Of course, I haven't seen the tile guy today, either.

Today they are bringing in the tub and vanity, putting back baseboards, etc. Tomorrow the plumber comes to do the toilet and hook up the tub and sink. Friday the glass comes. In theory then the tile guy comes back Monday to tile up to it, then the cleaning crew comes. I will believe it when I see it.

The bench is granite, and it looks like hell, but I am told they will make it look like new again.

OMG, I didn't realize you had the tub and toilet out too!!!! Now I really feel your pain!

Go out right now and buy yourself some special body wash for the shower and bubble bath for the tub. Candles etc.... You'll need to celebrate when it's all over!

Thanks- hate to get my hopes up, but the end does seem to be in sight. As much as a pain as this has been, there are many blessings. First, my glass guy had insurance- the tab for this is approaching $18K. Also, he upgraded me to Showerguard glass, which I wanted this first time around and couldn't get. I couldn't have built this OR rebuilt it without this forum. What a wonderful thing.

And my husband has already informed me of his sinister plans for a dual shower to make up for having to troop downstairs to shower for weeks. There will be celebrating, not to worry!

I have been following along all this time and am so glad to see the end is in sight for you. Your posts really helped me make many decisions, especially insisting on the glass doors being installed without messing up my curb!

Still, I can't believe with all the trouble you've had that no one did that water test! I would insist that the pan be tested before the new glass is installed. I had a fight with my installers, and said I wanted to stop work until the pan was tested. They insisted it would not leak, swore to it! I held firm and they really scrambled and had the pan tested that morning, left it overnight and it did not leak BUT when they uncovered the drain to let the water out, it didn't drain properly. There was a 12" long divet, channel type area that was a little lower than the drain that held about 1" of water. Even I could tell that water was never making it to the drain and said so. They tried a "fix" that didn't work and in the end, had to do the pan again. I was so glad for this forum and "the" tile one because I would have never known how important this step was.

I would be mad too if they piled all that junk on my granite bench. I watched my guys like hawks and still caught them piling stuff on the bench, the curb and the vanity and kept asking them to cover it up. In the end though, they are fine and flawless so I guess it is the nature of the granite to withstand some abuse especially the dense black stones. Mine is black galaxy and I love it, is yours absolute?

I am crossing my fingers for you! I thought my bathroom remodel was the worst ever until I read your posts. Why is it that misery loves company? Still, thanks for all the details, you really helped me! I am impressed by your determination all along to get the right information and then stand up for yourself!

I thought I would never love my bathroom after all the trouble and still there are some uncorrected problems that I can't get anyone to fix yet, one of the shower heads drips, the sink doesn't drain properly and I still can't make up my mind about a vanity mirror/medicine cabinet so I just have a temporary mirror but I can tell you we love love love the shower! When I finally finish, I will post some photos and tell my tale in hope that it might help others like you have.

Unfortunately, the "dual shower party" was just me and my little dd but she loves it and hopefully soon, DH and I will get our own "party!" She loves the bench and the shower slide bar and finally, after years of having to sit on the toilet every night while she took a bath, I have FREEDOM because she will shower alone. Even my 13 year old ds, who said I drove everyone crazy over this remodel, admitted that he loves it too! I hope when all the work is finished, that you will love yours too and the memories of how horrible all this was will fade quickly.

No please don't say that! That ship has sailed, I think. When I didn't hear back from Bill or Mongo on the water test I guess I assumed I was good to proceed without one. In any event the floor is down (not yet grouted) so I may be at the point of no return. I really don't think I can bear to extend this process another moment longer than necessary.

Fingers and toes crossed please. When/if they tile guy shows up again I will run it by him and see what he has to say. The plumber came today and hooked stuff up but it is still such a pit in there I am not sure I will be using any of it yet. I thought about cleaning it so I could, but I saw the line item for cleaning on the bid and am inclined to hold out for the GC to do it like he is supposed to. Plus, there is still grouting to be done.

Thanks for your support. I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone.

Update- I just talked to the GC to inquire why I hadn't seen the tile guy today (he was supposed to grout the floor of the shower.) I also mentioned the lack of a water test to him. He thinks we need one, and said he relies on the tile guy to do that. So he called him and called me back to say he (the tile guy) is coming tomorrow to fill the shower for the water test to leave over the weekend. Then he will come back Monday to check it and work on the rest of the grouting in anticipation of the glass coming Monday also.

Bill or Mongo, can you please detail the water test? I would like to know more than I do now (which is only that I should have one, I guess) since I am not certain the tile guy even knows (else he would have done one before laying the tile on the floor, correct?) Thanks (again!)

Quite honestly, any time I've done a Kerdi shower, I've foregone the water test, because it's just not been necessary. So long as attention is paid to that 2" overlap on all seams, there's nothing to worry about. FUHGEDDABOUDIT!!

But if he's going to do the test, I'd let him. It's just a matter of plugging up the drain, and filling the pan with water, to make sure none is escaping.

Will everything (the kerdi and the tile laid with spacers but not grouted) getting so wet delay his ability to start grouting? They are saying he will come today, leave the water over the weekend, and come back Monday. He was supposed to grout the floor then. Actually, he was supposed to grout the floor WEDNESDAY but I knew that was too good to be true. If you don't think it crucial, AND if doing so will delay any work, I say pass, but I need to hear it SOON. Thanks. Again.

Once he drains the water, it needs a day to dry out. Otherwise, he'll have problems with too much water in the grout.

What I was thinking. Guess I may punt. THANKS.

GC wants us to test the pan, so they are coming today to plug the drain and add water. He says he can come back tomorrow and check and drain it so it can dry before Monday. Will update later, hopefully with a good report.

PASSED!

(huge sigh of relief)

Now cross your fingers that the tiler AND the glass guy show up on Monday.

Awesome!! What will you do with your whip when all this is finished... You really got everyone hopping over there- good job!!

Hey, I take my orders from you people. I am just passing the word along as I receive it...

PHEW!!! Congratulations!

Kill me now.

Glass here and tile man still not finished laying all the bullnose pieces that go on either side of the glass. The story keeps changing, of course. One day he says it will all be laid one day and then he will return the next to grout because he cannot do both the same day. Fine. Just finish, already.

Today he says he is coming back tomorrow (lovely! so is my company!) and will use some thinset to finish which will enable him to tile and grout the same day.

I have come too far to have it screwed up now. Does this sound right, that he could tile AND grout it the same day?

If he uses fast set, yes, it can be done in one day. The fast set isn't cheap, though, which is why it's not used just as a matter of course.

Thanks Bill. I had a meltdown after I posted that and called GC and told him to tell everyone to stay away until Monday. I am sick of having people in and out and tolerated it as the carrot of being finished before Christmas was continually dangled. Glass was supposed to be here last Thursday, then Friday, you get the picture. Showed up at 1PM yesterday and the cleaning crew was going to "work around" the tile guy this morning to finish. Of course, the company party is at noon (for the GC) so they would only work til then. I would like to see anyone do $700 (the line item on the bid) worth of cleaning in 2 1/2 hours, but not today.

I pulled up the plastic that has been taped to my wood floor for almost 2 months and there is sticky tape residue all over and I am cranky but there is no tile saw whining, just me.

Merry Christmas all. Be back on Monday (I hope) to finish.

Ladycfp,
I suggested you use solid stone curbing (with pitch towards the inside) and the glass rest on it. Just where exactly do you think all the water flowing down the glass is going to go? Wherever water has to stop and change direction (at your glass/curb juncture) it decreases velocity but increases pressure. This is where you will eventually develope leaks. By splitting the curb and setting the glass within it you have formed a perfect cavity for water to accumulate! Anyone want to wager my point?
*25 years of leak free portland/lathe showers.

Keeth-

I thank you for your suggestion. But- are you even reading my posts or looking at my pictures? You must not be, otherwise I cannot fathom why you keep making these comments well past my ability to consider implementing them.

The curb is done. The glass is set. The only thing left is the tiling on either side of the glass. OK? You want to weigh in on that, please be my guest. Otherwise, please consider my mental state (fragile) and my construction timeline (nearly closed) and give me a break.

By splitting the curb and setting the glass within it you have formed a perfect cavity for water to accumulate! Anyone want to wager my point?

I will. IF this weren't a Kerdi shower, where the membrane is immediately beneath the tile, I'd agree with you 100%. But with the system the way it works, this will not be a problem.

My objective is to prevent water infiltation at the surface- NOT dealing with it after it has gotten under the glass and tile. Think like an engineer here. keeth

The thing is it WILL be prevented in such a way as to be harmless to all other components. In the 3/8" or so thickness of the tile, where the water would have the chance to build up the hydrostatic pressure you speak of, the pressure built up wouldn't even be negligible. AND, it would be on the outside of the membrane.

Can you guaranty that it will not leak? You do not want water breaching the glass/tile juncture even if, as you say, "it would be on the outside of the membrane". I demoed and rebuilt a shower in "06" that had a failed curb system EXACTLY like this. Monday I start another mud/lathe shower. Perhaps I should post photos so members get a real sense of a quality, maintenance free, leakproof job?

Why should I? It's not my installation, but if it were, yes, I would. But in the mean time, so will Schluter, both on my hypothetical installation, and on the real one above.

And ya wanna hear the good part? Schluter WILL stand behind their products. I've seen that for myself first hand.

The tile installers who put in our Kerdi shower told me that they were a little unsure of the product when first approached about it. The owner took a cardboard box and somehow attached a layer of Kerdi to the inside. The box has kept full of water in their showroom for I think about 5 years now as a "demonstration" .... box is as good as new.

Finally. Actually, they still have to come back to touch up the paint, which is why I haven't moved anything in yet. But I am getting in the bathtub tonight. It has been 2 months.

And he grouted the shower today, so I will have to wait until tomorrow night for the shower he said.

There it is!! Congrats, it looks beautiful (again)!

I hope you enjoy your first shower... ;-)

Lady, that's terrific news!! Congratulations!! One thing, though-- if he grouted the shower today, give it till New Years Day. Most grout manufacturers actually require 72 hours, but being that the shower's in an occupied home, and the temp has been decent, and not too much humidity (I'm assuming), you should be okay to wait just the two days.

Bill, aren't you being a bit cruel, telling her she can't use her shower until next year?

Me, being the more sympathetic and sensitive guy? I say a couple days wait at the maximum.

; )

LOL!!!!! What a saga, thrilled for you to not only have your bathroom back, but hopefully alone as well! Happy New Year, you've paid more than your share of dues so here's hoping 2009 will being smooth sailing!

Bill, Mongo- thanks. We will definitely give it an extra day. My husband will be disappointed (!) I did take a bath last night- heaven. I have the cleaning crew here again today doing picky things like feeling all the tile surface with their hands for haze and grout smears and touching up baseboards and walls. I do not feel guilty in the least, either. I told them not to run water in the shower.

When my husband gets home tonight, I will have him help me move in the linen cabinet and rehang things. Can't wait to turn the floor on either- I wait 30 days from SLC poured?

Correct.