Honestly, unless you bought that old cooktop secondhand, the rest of the kitchen probably is as old and ready ready for a complete redo as is the obsolete old cooktop and probably unsafe island cooking station You'd be better off buying a hunk of butcher block to rout the edges for a lip and drop over the hole, then do a cuttout for a 36'' induction. It's a stopgap that would bide you time while you addressed the rest of the issues that the old kitchen has.

I agree with hollsysprings, but it is possible to combine two induction cooktops. Depends on how much money you are willing to spend.

I can't find the threads at the moment, but I recall reading some discussion (with photos) where someone combined a standard sized (30" or 36") induction cooktop with an additional 15" induction cooktop (an induction wok burner, if memory serves.) Both Wolf and Gaggenau have 15" drop-in induction cooktops that would match their 30" induction cooktops. (If a wok burner is not on your list, they have two-burner induction units.) You could check out sites like AJ Madison for model numbers and installation instructions but would likely to have to price and buy the units locally.

There is also Cooktek which has commercial grade drop-in two burner induction cooktops that are, IIRC, just under 14" wide. You could combine three of those if the price (around $2k each) doesn't phase you.

Your best deal might be to combine that Wolf pop-up downdraft with the pair of Wolf cooktops. That would still be very expensive.

That said, there could be some hurdles to overcome: adding bracing to support the cooktops; figuring out the aesthetics of covering any space between the units; assuring sufficient clearance (for cooling the electronics) between the bottom of the units and whatever is inside the island; possibly needing to to upgrade the electrical service; and the additional complication of dealing with cutting the existing countertop further back to fit in a pop-up downdraft.

If all that expense and work is more than you want to undertake, than I agree with hollysprings that the best solution for the time being would be to either replace the existing counter top or put a cover over the existing cutout. I like the idea of dropping in a butcher-block cover for the existing cut-out. If you or your wife are very short, that might put the cooktop a tad high but only by the depth of the lip. On the other hand, the little bit of extra height might take care of the bottom clearance requirements. While you wouldn't be able to avoid some cutting into the counter for a pop-up vent, there are more choices for 36" wide models and they won't be as expensive as the longer one you mentioned.

Have you tried posting this question in the kitchens forum? If not, you might see what the design mavens over there have to say about this problem.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Wed, Sep 17, 14 at 12:57

Thanks for the replies!

The problem was that we've been working on designs to do a major (and expensive) remodel of our master bath and that still has the near term priority. So I don't have the budget to do a massive change in the kitchen. However, we thought that if we got the cooktop we want in good quality, we would just keep it when we start the kitchen remodel in a couple of years.

We've always liked having a 46" cooktop and really wanted to go "big" when we switched to induction. Strange that no one makes one. In a perfect world, we'd have one of those free form cooktops that can take any size of pan, and then a more normal "two burner" unit on the side. I'm guessing that would be prohibitively expensive, too.

I saw the kitchen forum, but when I searched on induction cooktops, the results all showed up in this forum and I wanted to be careful not to double-post. Maybe I'll try rephrasing my question for them in a design context.

If you want to do 46" (or 48") wide, then modular is probably the way you're going to have to go.

There are 36" induction cooktops that call for a 50 amp breaker... A 48" full induction would have some pretty heavy electrical requirements.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Wed, Sep 17, 14 at 17:37

I was just thinking that, hv, and guessing that the required current would be in proportion to the size, or at least 60A, (given that the 50A requirement for 36-inch units is due to the limitations of available breaker sizes not providing 43A or whatever the true maximum is) even if the likelihood of running all those hobs at maximum power would be small. This would put the unit wiring at the level that houses had for service entry in the 1950's.

One could do as I did and put a Cooktek wok hob next to a 36-inch cooktop. In any case, I strongly recommend an overhead hood, particularly if any cooking will involve frying or searing.

kas

Thanks for the additional thoughts. I've got a commercial electrical contractor that I work with a lot, so I'll have to give him a call to see how big a deal it is to put in 60a or more. I'm thinking it's not that big of a deal, as long as well have space in breaker panel. At least, on the scale of the rest of the expenses, this would seem to be less of an issue.

A modular option would be a 30" induction top and a 15" induction top. No real interest in the wok hob, or similar units that do gas, grilling, and so on. It's just that we have family gathers, my wife has a big family so we end up with a lot of boiling/frying/stewing/whatever pots at the same time. They use six burners now, and that seems to work fine for them.

So how much experience do you have with modular systems and just how bad is the price tag? Which brands? It seems to me I've seen two on the web, but I can't recall for sure.

And I know that one of those brands sells a free form induction cooktop in Europe, so I wonder if I could one of those into a modular system?

Gaggenau, Miele, and Wolf offer modular systems. All are premium brands and have significantly higher prices than, say, a Bosch or Electrolux induction top.

I would definitely check the electrical first. I have an older home and have to do some serious electrical work to put in induction, but I do have an all-gas range now, so our situations are different.

This post was edited by alerievay on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 9:34

What were your electrical requirements for the range? I'm just thinking that if I bring in an electrician to crank up the amps to the kitchen, I might as well have him take into account future possibilities.

Has anyone tried combining cooktops without using a modular system? What does a modular really gain you?

It seems to me the modular is designed so that you can mix and match different types of units, perhaps with one set of controls. Suppose I just install two separate units instead? The only challenge I see with that (until one of you corrects me) is that I'll have to come up with some trim or more countertop to go between the two units.

My post should have said all-gas range; I've edited it (thought I'd caught all the auto-correct typos).

30" induction ranges require 40 to 50 amp service. We're actually doing a panel upgrade to increase our whole house electrical service. It is not cheap. Ours is really necessary in any event, because our house was flipped about 10 years ago and has some electrical issues that weren't apparent until we started considering induction.

If I were you, I would put in a 36" induction cooktop and have 1-2 portable induction units available. Even with a countertop replacement, you would likely save money. But that doesn't seem to be your desired solution.

Actually, I hadn't considered the idea of a portable 1-2 burner unit. I don't know why; it seems obvious, in fact, really obvious. But it just never entered my brain.

My wife wants six burners for when we have our (frequent) family gatherings, but I don't see why we would need six the rest of the time. A 36" unit would have five burners, unless I manage to snag on of those flexible size cooktops (I understand those only support four pots at a time, even if they can be any size/shape).

Certainly this is worth talking over with my wife. Thanks!

The electrician came in this morning to checking things out. I told him that we would need either 50 amps (one 36" unit) or 60 amps (two smaller units). He said our existing wiring would handle the 50 amps but not the 60, and in either case it would require putting in bigger breakers in the panel. Bottom line is maybe $100 for 50 amp upgrade and $300 (due to replacing the wiring) for 60 amps. On the scale of all the other expenses involves, this is not bad.

In the meanwhile, I talked to my wife about using a four or five burner cooktop and then a portable unit on top, but her initial reaction was not positive. So we're still working on that.

Unless there is an induction unit larger than 36 inches, the actual wiring you will need for two induction units isn't a single 60A circuit, but a 50A (at 240 Vac) for the 36-inch unit, and a [probable] 20A (at 240 Vac) for the auxilliary induction unit. If you are interested in double wall ovens, plan for another 50A circuit there. I don't know about induction ranges; one might expect the total maximum load to be more than 50A.

And any kitchen reno will have to comply with modern versions of the NEC, so you will need at a minimum two additional 20A (at 120 Vac) circuits for countertops. And in my view, it is best to have microwave, refrigerator, dishwasher, garbage disposal (or two) on their own circuits, or at least paired up in ways that allow simultaneous start-up currents to not trigger a breaker shut-off.

What one can end up with is many breakers, either in one or more colocated panels in a home-run configuration, or with distributed panels if they can be accommodated by house layout and convenience. Although the sum of the breaker ratings will end up very much higher, for most of us the maximum likely house power used should be met by a 200A service.

Your electrician will know all of this and more and can advise you further.

kas

It seems to me that we already have separate circuits for microwave, garbage disposal, fridge, dish washer, trash compactor, plugs. And we have 40 a right now for the over, but it's not clear to me whether that's share with the current cooktop.

Actually, putting together that list of kitchen appliances reminds me of another question I should really post here: we want to dump the trash compactor and we're not planning on replacing the cabinetry (so no complete reconfiguration). I could put in more shelves but it's already got it's own power line, so I'm trying to think of another appliance to put in that space. Anyone with suggestions?

The 40 amp should be for the oven only, not shared with the cooktop.

Ice maker, in place of the trash compactor?

Hard to imagine an ice maker taking that much space, and we already have the fridge ice maker. I thought about a wine cooler but I got one of those (the stand alone kind) for my wife a few years ago and she never used it. I wonder about a second, really small, dish washer?

An 18" dishwasher should be able to fit. You could also some other sort of undercounter refrigeration, like drawers or something. I would not recommend an undercounter ice maker unless you're sure you need one, they are energy/water hogs and they can be noisy.

These are good ideas but it occurs to me that I've gotten way off subject. I think I'll just post a separate topic for that one idea.

Thanks for the help.

I don't know if anyone cares any more about my question to replace a 46" cooktop with induction, but I'm still research solutions and I've come up with several scenarios. I should preface this by saying that not only do I want induction, but I'm particularly interested in flexible burners. That can mean anything from a general zone for any shape/size pan, to "bridged burners", which is what Wolf/Sub Zero offers.

Looking at Sub-Zero/Wolf, I see a couple of possibilities:

1) Combine a 15" two burner cooktop with a 30" four burner cooktop for a total of six burners. The four burner cooktop includes bridging between pairs of burners, so you an have two larger (or, at least, longer) cook zones. I'm not really sure what "bridge" means here or how it compares to the flexible zone cooktops by other manufacturers.

2) Combined two 24" three burner cook tops for a 48" six burner cooking surface. These units each come with two of the burners "bridged." So if I put two of these side by side, I get two pairs of bridged burners and two individual burners. This seems to be about the same as the previous solution in terms of burner configuration, but a little wider at 48" total.

I don't really know anything about the quality of Wolf compared to other brands. Anyone have experience with them?

Besides that, I see lots of interesting flexible 36" cooktops. Bosch has something with two flex zones (one on each side) and a big burner in the middle. Wolf has something with four burners bridged together and one other burner on the side. Thermador and Gaggenau both have bigger zones but are limited to four pots, which isn't much for a 36" cooktop. Maybe they've failed behind the technology curve? Obviously, with a 36" cooktop I have to back fill some of the island counter top plus I don't meet my wife's preference for six burners.

The Bosch nit8666 says, in the specs, that it is the only 36inch cooktop using a 40 amp, not 50, breaker on the market. See ajmadison.com for the specs.

W.r.t. the above, note that the NEC requirement is that the load on wiring not exceed 80% of the rated value, so the actual draw of the unit needs to be determined before deciding what wiring and what breaker rating is suitable.

Induction cooktops are already operating at a high level of efficiency, measured as electrical power in to inductive power transferred to the pan base. Hence, little reduction in required electrical current will result from possible further improvements in efficiency. This suggests that 36-inch units under 40A will have lower powered hobs, or less capability for temporary over-power modes.

W.r.t. two units side by side, please keep in mind that the cooktops and any stone countertop material that they may be resting upon requires structural support, including in the space between them. The effect will be to make the pair of cooktops take up more space than the sum of their widths. This also forces a wider hood over them than the sum of their widths plus six inches. With stone, a minimum width between cutouts should be determined from the potential supplier of the stone.

kas

>>> "I don't really know anything about the quality of Wolf compared to other brands. Anyone have experience with them?"IIRC, a2gemini's has had a 30" Wolf induction coopktop for several years and has posted about it. If you haven't already seen the posts, I've linked to one below. For more other reviews, you might try a google search using the terms "gardenweb + chowhound + wolf + induction + cooktop."

Here is a link that might be useful: a2gemeni -- wolf induction cooktop review

How did you solve your venting problem? I am dropping from an old gas 31 inch Jenn Air to a 2-hob induction unit. I have the same big hole little unit problem too.

Right now I am looking at an overlay with a solid surface material. I am contemplating creating my own integral down-draft system since all the pop-ups are ridiculously expensive and don't seem to work all that great.

We went from big hole to bigger hole by installing two cooktops: a 36" Bosch induction and a 15" Miele gas 2-hob unit. For ventilation, we put in a Wolf 45" pop-up behind the cooktops. One advantage over the old Jenn-Air ventilation is that with the Wolf we could install the main blower unit under the floor and down line (actually under the laundry room). The Wolf does a much better job than the old Jenn-Air and with the blower unit moved out of the way, it's much quieter, too.