michael-- where abouts are you?

South West nebraska.

Oh well-- closest good pro I know to you is Hastings. I was going to recommend having someone come in and just mud the pan for you, and you could do the rest.

Oh, Hastings is about 168 miles away. The mileage would cost more then the pan I think. I can get a custom one made for about $400.00, but the Kerdi is only about $70.00, if my idea would work. I could just go with a 48 x 48 shower, but I want to put 2 shower heads in, one on each end, so I thought 48 x 60 would be better. Oh, and I want to put a fold down shower bench along one wall. thanks for your help.
Michael

Well, what you COULD do, is a combination of mud and what you proposed in the first place. Center the foam Kerdi pan, and fill in the two ends with mud, and just take a straight stick with a somewhat sharp corner on it, and run it along the foam pan to scread off the mud at either end! ( I'll turn you into a mud mechanic yet!!) Then, you have your 48x60, AND, you keep your pitch continuous all the way to the wall, rather than having any standing water the last few inches.

Michael,

Your idea and Bill's description are just the way to do it.

When packing the mud, it sometimes helps to pack a little on one end, then the other, then back to the other end, alternating.

Although it shouldn't move, since this is your first time setting one, it will help prevent the pan from shifting as you pack the mud.

Mongo

Thanks for the help. Now I need to break up the basement floor to redue the plumbing. I ain't looking forward to that. How long should the concrete cure before laying the kerdi membrain over it and tiling? And how about how long to let the concrete cure on the basement floor from my patch jobs from redoing the plumbing, before I lay tile and the kerdi pan?Thanks,
Michael

Won't you end up with an uneven first row of tile doing it that way? I vote for sucking it up and doing a mud pan. If I can do one (and I did!) anyone can. It just takes a little patience.

Terricks-- it wouldn't be uneven enough for ANYONE to ever notice-- even if they knew it was there.

Okay, but I just think that everyone should have to suffer through making a mud pan like I did ;)

I did feel quite a sense of accomplishment - after all the swearing and sweating.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I've done enough mud pans to suffer for all of them. :-)

I have to say though-- I remember the very first mud floor I did. It was a bathroom floor in a school called Cheney Technical School in Manchester, Ct., right around 1982, and I can very easily identify with that feeling of accomplishment. it IS very self satisfying floating a floor, and having ti come out just the way you want it to.

(just a little secret-- I STILL get that feeling every time I float a surface-- floor OR wall!) :-)

I would love to mud my own pan, but i think this is the way to go for me for this project. Maybe later. Now if there were a less expensive alternative for the kerdi membrain.
michael

There is. It's called fiberglass. :-)

Terricks,

Were it more than 6", then it might be a layout concern.

But 6" at 1/4" pitch per foot, we're talking about 1/8th inch.

Still, for filling in around a Kerdi tray I'd trim that 1/8th inch off the bottom of the bottom course of tile on the ends walls, and do a 1/8th inch taper on the bottom of the first and last tiles that are on the side walls to make it all purdy.

Like Bill, I remember my first mud job. And my first mud preslope was the first one I'd ever seen, so I was going on faith.

A bit of fear, a bit of chutzpah, a lot of elbow grease, and it turned out great.

Mongo

bill, There is a fiberglass product to replace the kerdi membrain, or were you talking about a fiberglass shower pan?

Because it looks like my concrete patches on my basement floor need to cure 28 days before laying tile, I will have lots of time to practice on a mud shower pan. Now if anyone can explain to a blind guy how to go about this, I will give it a try.

Should I go for the multi layered pan, or do the mud pan with the kerdi drain and membrain?

I read some good info on the John Bridge forum, but I can't join to ask questions.

Thanks for the help. I can start a new thread if that will make things easier.
Michael

You can't beat the kerdi system, far as I'm concerned. No need to worry about weepholes getting clogged, and the only thing that gets wet is the tile, grout, and thinset, which dries out in no time.

Not that we can't help you here, but why can't you join John's forum? You've got my curiosity up. :-)

Also, stay with the one thread, and yes, I was talking about a fiberglass base unit. (just bein me-- a wise a$$) :-)

Bill, I can't join the John Bridge forums because there is an image varification for the registration, and I can't read the image. I asked John to register me, but he wouldn't, so i got to wait for my wife to do it.
Michael

Okay for the mud for the shower pan, do i still use a 4:1-6:1 ratio when using the kerdi drain and membrain?

130 lbs of concrete is about 1 cubic foot correct?

Can I use the same mixture for patching my basement floor
where I had to bust it up to move and redue some plumbing?

We are going to HD this weekend, about a 200 mile trip for us, so i want to have my shopping list all ready.
Thanks,
Michael

Okay for the mud for the shower pan, do i still use a 4:1-6:1 ratio when using the kerdi drain and membrain?

Yes. FOr something as small as a shower pan, what I'll usually do is go to HD, Lowes, or one of the local lumber yards and just pick up some sand mix (Sacrete, Quickrete, whatever they have) and use that.

As for your basement floor, I'd use the concrete mix you want that gravel in it to give it a little more strength.

Nor for how much. For a 4'x5' shower pan, you shouldn't need more than about 6 60 pound bags of the sand mix, but being as far as you're traveling, I'd get 8 just to be sure. At a cost of only about 4-5.00 a bag, it'd sure suck to run short.

Like Mike, I need a little more room on the end of a kerdi pan...

What kind of 'mud' would I use: unmodified thinset, or something more specific?

oruboris-- Your kerdi pan is too short, and you need to fill in?

I don't have the pan yet, but my main shower is something like 53 inches long. I was debating whether to cut some 2x boards to fill the extra space and continue the slope, or use a cement type product of some sort.

Use the sand mix.

Bill, thanks for the info, I did get joined up on the John Bridge forums now. I think I read on there that you can use a 50 lb bag of play sand with a 80 lb bag of sand mix, and that will work pretty good. I will get 4 bags of each, for about 4 cubic feet. I figured I would need about 3.4 cubic feet for my bed, making it about 2 to 2.5 inches thick. That isn't to thick is it? I think I read that Kerdi drain needs about 1 inch of mud under it for support. Maybe I will start at 1 inch and slope up to 1 3/4 inches, then i will have extra for any mistakes.

I do not have any concrete trowels, floats, etc....any recommendations for the shower pan on what size and type of tools work best?
Thanks,
Michael

You got it, toyota! :-)

I do not have any concrete trowels, floats, etc....any recommendations for the shower pan on what size and type of tools work best

When I do a shower pan, These are the hand tools I go in with:

>12" (give or take) flat trowel (or wood float) for packing the drypack
>18" finishing trowel
>a series of small straightedges for screading and pitching the mud. In your case, I'd want a 4', a 3', a 2 1/2', and a 2', as well as one about 12-14". Sounds like a lot, and you may not use all of them, but for a shower the size you're doing, I usually do (use all of them), even if it's minimal use. Now, you don't have to spend the money for actual straightedges. If you go down to Home Depot, and get a 1x4 and cut it down into the sizes I listed, that's all you need.
>2' and 4' (preferrably) wood levels (could take the palce of those straightedges)

That should do ya.

As for mixing, a deep wheelbarrow and square nosed masons shovel should be all you need.

Oh-- don't forget atleast 4-5 5 gallon pails!!