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Code on framing

18 years ago

Long story, but my homebuilder DH has been trying to oversee my DS's build being done by a large production builder. He knows there are big differences between custom building and production building, but he was stunned to go onsite last week and find them framing with #3 grade studs, really cruddy looking stuff, had 3's printed on them. He would never portray himself a walking encyclopedia of code, but the homes he built were definitely stringently inspected and so there were two forces at work on him--trying to do a good job and trying to be within code.

Some gentleman from the builder met with him today and said the city inspector (small city near Austin) had told them (after DH's complaint) that #3 lumber was AOK. My DH disagreed, and eventually the gentleman came around to agree to replacing more of the crummy studs,etc.

My question is, any town with a building code and inspection team is going to have to use the adopted code, and is there any way it would let you get by with #3 framing lumber?

Comments (16)

  • 18 years ago

    It helps to know the actual code that is in effect but I think the IRC is in effect in Texas but only in the jurisdictions that have accepted it.

    The IRC says that studs shall be a minimum of No. 3, Standard, or Stud Grade lumber. Studs can be Utility grade but with so many restrictions that there would be little reason to consider using them.

    Obviously, the building code is only intended to establish a minimum level of safety and is not intended to be used as a manual or guide for the construction of quality homes.

  • 18 years ago

    This city has adopted the 2003 IRC. Hmm, can't believe they allow #3, but as you say, it's a minimum. Well, grousing did get them to replace a number of the really bad ones.

    My DH wonders if VA or FHA have any different standards?

    Interestingly, they said they checked other homes under construction and didn't find the use of 3's. HMMM.

  • 18 years ago

    Do your plans specify the grade? One would hope that somewhere in the eensy-weensy print, you've got something to catch them on.

    This is about to turn into a rant, but I really hate when one trade (framers, in this case) do something that saves them a buck or two, but costs ten times that down the road because everybody after them has to work to overcome their shoddy work.

  • 18 years ago

    In the mid 80's HUD started accepting model and local building codes, in lieu of separate and prescriptive HUD standards.

  • 18 years ago

    IMO......NEVER use a large production track house builder!! They have learned where to cut costs to the verrrrrrry bare min. of the code to max. profit....period!!

  • 18 years ago

    Scroll part-way down the link for a short & sweet comment re #3/stud grade lumber. It's not just the grade, but species that matters!

    IMO, grade-wise there is little difference between #2 and #3, you still have to handle each board piece by piece in order to get the straightest and least knottiest. The last time I went for studs, I found fewer than 1 in 5 of the #3's acceptable and fewer than 1 in 4 of the #2's. (After you've picked up and inspected a thousand boards, that's not much difference.) I sorted for un-warped, and knots that were less than 20% of the depth/width. The thing that I still remain puzzled about was noticing little difference in the amount of warping between kiln-dried and air-dried. Since I was looking only at pine, species difference wasn't involved. Was it because they were loose (unbundled) and had a chance to twist more than bundled? I don't know; it's just one of those oddities to think about. And before it's asked: I went to 3 lumberyards; and several batches were freshly unbundled so it wasn't a case of them having already been picked over.

    Here is a link that might be useful: stud grade lumber

  • 18 years ago

    only 1 in 4 #2 grade were good? We used kiln dried #2 doug fir studs on my house (mostly 2x6) and I think we found only 8-10 boards that were bad. We used a lot of #3 on our garage. Not much twisting, but a whole lot of wane (sp?).

  • 18 years ago

    Fir as opposed to pine?? who knows-- maybe I just hit the results of a bad harvest season that year, lol. But that's why I went to the other yards. It was an atrocious experience; and I kept thinking: Sheesh, ignore the lumberyards for a few years and they not only drop the nominal measurements, but send the quality to the pits. Unfortunately, recently I was looking at 2x4s for another project... and the ratio was dern close to being the same.. I hefted 50 boards to get 12 good ones-- and maybe I'm perfectionistic but I was looking for straight and ignoring the wanes. However, I'm now ready to admit that I'm too old to be doing that sort of quality checking -- please pass the bengay.

  • 18 years ago

    #3 of any species should never be used with the exception of maybe burning it up for use as blocking/backing or temporary bracing. Personally i would not allow it on the jobsite and if delivered make them take it back.

  • 18 years ago

    Once again, people, it's "tract" builder, not "track" builder. But I agree you are likely to have quality issues with large, mass-production builders. (Of course, there are some bad custom builders, too).

  • 18 years ago

    The building code is not concerned with the condition of studs at the lumberyard, (that's the builder's concern) but it does care about the compression strength (parallel to the grain) of lumber for transferring roof and floor loads to the foundation and the bending strength of lumber for transferring wind loads to floors.

    The allowable fiber stress in bending (Fb) of Spruce-Pine-Fir 2x4 lumber and the allowable stress in compression parallel to the grain in PSI is

    1,125 & 1,463 for No. 2 grade
    863 & 900 for Stud grade
    638 & 825 for No. 3 grade
    375 & 975 for Utility grade

  • 18 years ago

    When we visited the site a few days later someone had removed all studs that had a 3 on them, not all the obvious 3's, but those that had it imprinted. Sigh. I must say they also have added a lot of framing lumber to make the frame more substantial since my DH's intervention into matters.

    It was a tough decision for the DS, but he would likely go with the same production builder for their affordability. My DH will do what he can to improve the quality of what they are doing.

  • 18 years ago

    To address the last comment in the OP - do NOT rely on the building inspector to catch code violations or possible code issues. They usually have to deal with both commercial and residential construction and, though residential is simpler, there are too many rules for any but the most experienced & conscientious inspectors to be aware of.

    In my current situation I just recently received my C.O. after a two-year construction period. The inspector visited my site just 3 times despite being called at the appropriate milestones. And he never did conduct a final inspection. I was finally told to just come to the town hall to pick up my C.O. after repeated phone calls. On the other hand, a neighbor in MD was visited multiple times by the inspector and was required in one instance to caulk all the seams of ganged studs along exterior walls.

  • 18 years ago

    This sounds rather cynical, but after many years either in or on the periphery of construction industry, the DH has noted that large production builders are not usually burdened by a lot of visits from inspectors. So no, we never thought that the inspector would be a lot of help; if you read the post carefully, I was hoping that the code would eschew #3's, which apparently, it doesn't.

  • 18 years ago

    No building inspector should be considered a substitute for quality control by the owner or the owner's agents.

    No building code should be considered a substitute for a good set of design documents.

    If you are counting on the building code to make up for poor detailing and/or specifications you should get a copy of it and read it. You will find that there's not much in most of them to protect you.

    Floor joists are allowed to be annoyingly bouncy. Foundations walls are allowed to be so poorly reinforced that they can collapse if floor joists are not installed before the backfill. The best codes can say about window and door flashing is to follow the manufacturers' instructions as if window manufacturers are suddenly experts on waterproofing detailing after 80 years of refusing to touch the subject.

    If you want some assurance that your house will be built well get someone to prepare a good set of design documents and review the work for compliance. It's cheap insurance.

  • 18 years ago

    I think mightanvil's comments highlight a key problem faced by those of us who, as non-trades people, are probably involved in a one-time homebuilding experience (thus the reason for this forum). Whether building through a Builder/GC or Self-GCing, there are many things we learn during the building process that would have been best to know beforehand.

    Communications and trust are really the key. The quality of materials should be a part of the discussion during the design and bid processes. And, short of incurring the expense of a 3rd-party P.E., you need to be able to trust the builder to follow your wishes. In this case it was fortunate the OP had a (very) trusted source of expertise and oversight. SOAPBOX ALERT -- In my opinion this is also another example where the government is not really here to help (but is quite willing to argue they are as an excuse to tax our earnings).