Actually I have the All Clad 2 qt. sauce pan as well as a 2 1/2 qt. copper sauce pan and they both work fine on the sealed burners. It's a myth that you can't use a small sauce pan on a large sealed burner. It's true you can't turn the burner all the way up to maximum or the flames will shoot up the sides but with a small sauce pan you don't need to. With a small sauce pan you can bring water to a boil quite quickly with the burner set half way up or less. I also think the 12K burners on the newer model have a smaller diameter burner ring. I only crank up the burners all the way when I'm using my wok or boiling water for pasta in one of my large stock pots.

weissman, thanks. I know how the small diameter 2 qt pan works for a staple I cook so it was a concern.

FWIW, I got my 48" Precision for $8K; the Wolf was about $2K more. I think you'll find the Precision is cheaper.

I got my 48" Precision for $8K; the Wolf was about $2K more

gulp And IÂm having trouble justifying $2200 for the GE Café :-)

Adding commentary on the DCS products. I've had two so far; an older 30" AG non-self cleaning (in black...stunning!) at the old house and an older 30" DF model in stainless. I have pots that are varied sizes and don't have any issues with the burners. I make small amounts of rice in a one qt saucepan with no problems. The heat only gets cranked once in a while. The performance is amazing; I simmer soups all day (on any one of my burners) with no loss of flame, no hot spots.

I looked at the newer DCS and the smaller burners are slightley smaller in diameter. I got the DF for LESS than I got the AG because it was last year's model.

My brother bought my house and we negotiated on the stove. I did not want to leave it as I had it for three years at that point and loved cooking with it. We found the DF at an appliance outlet and snatched it up for less than half price.

dees, thanks for info. Before I make a decision I am still waiting to see a GE Cafe in person and more feedback. There is about $1200 difference. I am questioning, is the Infrared broiler worth $1200?
Not sure if you or Weismann have looked at read anything about the Cafe but it does seem like a lot of range for the money though I am sure some of you would think this is apples to oranges comparison.

When you look at the cafe check to see if the cooling fan runs constantly or not. I know sometimes with electronic control a fan must run to keep them cool. If it does, that may also impact your choice. Just a thought -

I've just seen the postings about the cafe range. It looks like an interesting product. I believe it's a slide-in rather than a free-standing range. Just means that you need countertop or a strip behind it.

Pretty sure it is freestanding. Found a press release at GE and I think that is what is said.

It is freestanding. Also you are right that a noisey fan would impact my decision. Does the DCS not have an electronic control? (remember you are talking to a gas range dummie) I should also say I haven't had the best salespeople to deal with so I am putting a lot of weight on what I learn here.

well i've been following your post and it seems that you blew off american range because it wasn't in your area. where are you located. i live in jackson, n.j. and i bought mine from california if you search american range on this forum you can find my previous posts. it is an outstanding range and even better price. i bought mine from josh dvorson (dvorsons food service equipment) . if you have children you can put out a bunch of cupcakes in one shot. great broilers, quiet fans. i have the 48" and love the ovens 1 @ 18" and 1 @ 30". feel free to call me.
john
jackson, n.j.
917-842-1809

johnnytugs, I would be happy to see an American or Bluestar but there are none in my area. (I have traveled or called up to 75 miles.) Due to poor repair service in our area (I was unable to get someone for a minor issue with our present Thermador) I really want to stay with something I can buy locally. I thought open burner ranges would be easier to fix in the event I needed service but I am hoping without electronics the DCS would still work.

My DF stove has no electronics. Burner controls are knobs, oven temperature control is a knob. Various oven settings (bake, convection, etc) are push buttons. The AG non-SC was all knobs as well.

I've not shopped other brands. I did a ton of research here six years ago and took my time looking at them before making a final decision. I needed the most functional 30" stove I could buy. The DCS fit since all the burners can be used the way I wanted, they all have higher output and the top of the stove was designed to use the maximum space.

I had stove tops where burners have specific functions. If I want to make stock, I might want to put it on the back left burner to simmer instead of the back right. I might want my high output to be the front left instead of the front right. Fixing burners to serve specific needs just does not work for me. Besides, I think it limits the number of kitchens the equipment can go in, depending on their configuration and how the cook would use it.

dees, I have no doubt the DCS will work for me. It does have 2 different burner sizes but my bet either would work for anything I do and I certainly like that they all simmer. I wish there was more input on the Cafe but it is a new range and without more info before we are ready to order from consumers I think I will eliminate it. I know I would be upset with a noisey cooling fan or convection fan.

you could try to get in touch with ge and get someone to tell you how the fan functions? or, at the least, see if you can get the owner's manual - it should say if it runs all the time or not.

eandhl,
where are you located? let me look into where you may be able to ck one out. so you can at least master the possibilities.
john
jackson, n.j.
917-842-1809

NW corner of CT. We are a little over an hr. from Hartford.

eandhl - I went to the distributor's warehouse in Atl to see the American. They didn't really have a showroom as until recently they were mainly commercial but they did have 3 different American ranges in the breakroom. Plus, they had one hooked up to gas. They were more than helpful. The thing I found here is that the retailers don't have it yet, even though they can sell it. And, from experience, if they did have it at the store, it wouldn't be live.

There is a spot on the American web site where you can find the distributor for your area - give them a call direct and see if you can visit them - if they are close enough to do that.

I know you aren't in that region but I would hope that your distributor could help you out.

I had tried that with American and Bluestar and there is nothing within an hr. I fear buying further due to service. One place did carry Bluestar but said they had to many issues. Since I read glowing reports here I can't help but wonder if it was a distributer that wasn't doing his job to customer satisfaction.

We're ordering the AG Cafe on Friday. We went with all GE Cafe for the whole kitchen. You can't beat the price for the quality you're getting. But unfortunately, I don't have any useful information on performance....yet!

Hard to say, I heard the same thing from a dealer here regarding some service issues w/the BS and how they were handled.

plumorchard, I didn't go into what kind of problems, just they stopped carring the BS. I am still considering the 3 I mentioned earlier, DCS, GE cafe and Viking. Do you know what you will do if your Wolf issues are not resloved to your satisfaction?

Of your 3, I am not considering Viking - not just based on feedback here but elsewhere as well regarding issues.
GE is electronic control pad of front, which for me personally is a pain. I like to turn the knob and go. It does look nice though! The DCS is a possibility but I am leaning towards the American at the moment.

I find it fascinating how experiences can vary so widely with these appliances. For as many people who love their ranges, you can find just as many that hate them.

I have two friends that have DCS and they both told me to stay far away. They were both having burner issue and not getting much satisfaction. I have another friend that swears by DCS. Go figure!

plumorchard, I did take your advise and contacted GE and yes they do indeed have a cooling fan that can come on any time. Cleaning mode, baking mode anytime.

eandhl - just me, but that would kind of make me nuts. It is probably there to keep the electronics cool. If it is quiet it wouldn't be too bad I guess, but I've heard some loud ones that run for a long time, even after the oven is off for cool down. Just my personal thing though.

plumorchard, it is not just you. I know I must have a cooling fan on my Thermador but it only comes on after a cleaning cycle and it would drive me crazy if it came on often.

eandhl,
i guess you aren't interested in american range i wish you best of luck in your search for a range.
john
jackson, n.j.
917-842-1809

johnnytugs1, I did not loose interest, I have been unable to see one person. I have emailed and received a response and I have called and awaiting a return call. No decision on a range as yet.

can you be more specific where you live and i will get the nearest dealer/dist. near you. but i can't tell the guy "the nw corner of ct. 1 hr from hartford" and expect him to give me someone.
john
917-842-1809

I got my return phone call from Amer Range - there are none within 1 1/2 hour from us to see.

e...might be worth the drive if you want to consider it. We drove about 45 minutes to actually see one, but the nearest dealer to us that can sell it is about 10 minutes. They just don't have one on the floor.

They are still new and growing the dealer locations. If it is a range you want to consider, take a trip.

My husband is looking again today I will post pictures too.

johnnytugs1, I live in Easton, MD (zip 21601) and was wondering if you could tell me if there are any American Range distributors within an hour or two of here (I doubt there are any closer)? I'm willing to drive and take a look, for the investment we're about to put into our kitchen remodel.

Thanks!

hi sailing gal, your dist.is a the same as new jersey's.i would stay far away from that useless s.o.b. call american range 818-897-0808.i believe there is another dist. magnus he may only be commercial equipment but i'm not sure. i'm kinda pissed at them(american range )now so i don't really wanna call. but magnus' # is 201-531-2671. if signature marketing was the only company in the world selling appliances i would rather cook on a bar-b-q.when i get this all squared away i will get into more detail. i would ck for a dist./dealer south of you. i used josh dvorson and he was a saint. you can ck my other posts if you search american range.keep me posted.
john
jackson, n.j.
917-842-1809

Thanks John... I've been following your saga on the other thread somewhat.

We're at least a month away from actually having to make a decision so I'm learning as much as I can before I do.

I have room for a 36" range, and it could be a dual fuel but since I'll have another oven in the island I was thinking of going with all gas. I've been following the threads about Viking and Wolf and am hesitant about those at this point, too!

i've never used a dual fuel so thats a whole new concept to me. it was always gas or electric and i never cared for electric. just a preference tho.i "heard" viking cleaned up their act but the 2 people i know that purchased them haven't installed them and it doesn't look good for installing in 07. wolf is going down the tubes. i've spoken to dealers who are just filling previous orders and done. but i'm happy with mine and we'll see how it plays out down the road. best of luck to you and happy thanksgiving
john
jackson,n.j.
917-1809

I would suggest that you look at a Capital range. I purchased mine earlier this year and it is fabulous. We like to raise our own beef so the infrared broiler was an important feature for us. It works great. You'll find great prices at Performance Appliance and BBQ. I purchased mine there (Arizona) and had it shipped to true Northern California - NO problems at all. Except for installing the hood. Our house was the difficulty.

lyndac, which Capitol range did you get? Percision or Performance? Size?

I have the 48" Capital Precision - it has been wonderful so far. It did have to be calibrated, but Capital jumped on it. And not that it matters, but I've gotten lots of compliments on the look. Here is a pic.

{{gwi:1388562}}

C'mon Julie! You know it matters! lol BTW, love the Santa!

As another Capital Precision owner, I will also add my 2 cents that I really love this range. A couple of little things, but customer service was very responsive.

eandhl-
Not sure where you in location to this Viking distributor but here's a suggestion -
If it is feasible - you could go there and see many of the products you are considering operational

You do have to call ahead to make an appointment so I would suggest offering a model or 2 that you are "considering" just play along so that you can see the performances of the one's you would like - ask what other models they have so that you can be sure it's worth your trip

No association btw - but I did go there & found it well worth the trip!

good luck

DELIA ASSOCIATES
4 LASER LN
WALLINGFORD, CT 06492-1928
Phone: 203-303-2000

Need help trying to decide between the 36" Bertazzoni or American Range. We are replacing a 23 year old 40" American Crown range that has double ovens and broilers and 4 burners. It's been great all these years but the ovens are shot now. There are no 40" ranges of any quality now. We would have to go with the 48" ranges to replace what we have but they are too big and too expensive.
I was attracted by the styling of the Bertazzoni but was concerned that for the money I would like to get more BTU's and oven size. We looked at the 36" American today and really liked it. It was listed at $3999 ($800 more thatn the Bert). Do you think it's worth it? Does the merican have the fan noise issue? We live in the San Francisco Bay area so I plan to call Dvorsons on Monday to check out their price and availability. We need it before Christmas hopefully.

mcferg - I posted on the other thread but you bring up something else here I did not even consider. The Bertazzoni oven fan runs anytime the oven is on. It is very noisy.

The American you can turn on/off yourself.

Between the two, I would chose the American. They do offer color if that interests you too.

jejvtr, seeing a Viking in operation is not a problem as I know several people that have them, and interesting no one is having issues with them. But are you saying at the place you mentioned they would have DCS, American maybe even the GE Cafe also in operation for comparison?

mcferg- that's easy, get the American. It's more than just the fan noise. It's a much better range.

eandhl-
I was there nearly 2yrs ago - I witnessed DCS, Wolf, Dacor, Thermador (if memory serves) maybe Jenn Air -
That was my motive for going - I had done my research now I wanted a real life experience - even the appliance dealer had many that were hooked up - this offered more

I would call & see what brands/models they have available to see if it is worth your while for visiting & demo

good luck

jejvtr, thanks. It is a haul but if I could see the DCS operational that would be good. No decision yet but I am leaning that way. I still haven't been able to see the GE cafe in person and someone did mention they felt the fan was noisey.

good luck let us know how you make out

does anyone have any experience with AGA ranges? really want to put the 36" Legacy model dual fuel in the log home we are building. It is available locally in Lexington, KY, but saw it online @ cutting edge appliances cheaper. talk about ovens, dedicated broiler oven, multifunction oven, and separate convection oven. Not sure what I'm going to use for hood yet. any input on AGA Legacy dual fuel range would be greatly appreciated.

julier,
that is an outstanding set up you have there. you must be in heaven, even tho it's not an american range : ).it looks really good. were you standing on the counter,lol best of luck and happy holidays to ya.
john
jackson,n.j.
917-842-1809