You can do stuff like a manual J for free online and get a load analysis but you wont have exact numbers like a true manual j done by paid software. Also, software cant do a blower door test, check for air leaks, duct blast test and check for sealed ducts, etc.

Now is it worth it? If you plan on living there for a while, probably. I would check around for other energy audit companies. They could save you a couple thousand dollars on HVAC equipment alone when it is properly sized. Lots of builders (especially in places like Texas where I live) like to do old fashion "rule of thumb" hvac sizing. The old days of 1 ton / 500sq ft are long gone and new properly sealed houses can be closer to 1 ton for 1000-1500sq ft.

If they are offering full walk through and recommendations on insulation, hvac selection and design, blower door test, duct blast test, etc....I would probably go with it. What do they offer as far as their service and how much is it?

I had a HVAC guy come out on my remodel that was thrilled to see we were foaming the roofline and the walls yet still wanted to put a 4 ton unit in my 2100sq ft house. Doing a free manual J with the new windows going in, foamed walls and airtight drywall, we can go 2 ton. It is better to have a properly tuned HVAC that will save you money every month. Many people oversize and short cycle their air conditioners and cannot take advantage of the dehumidificaiton that it will do if allowed to run long enough.

This post was edited by 8mpg on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 23:50

Their contract is hazy on details, but the gist of it is they look at the building plans and make recommendations. Things like how much insulation, what kind of heating (geothermal, solar), what kind of light bulbs (duh), appliances, what material the front door should be. They predict how much energy will cost in 25 years, which I think is a bit presumptive on their part, and tell you exactly how many buckets of money you will save. There's a graph in their colorful sample report that tells you literally how many trees you will save over time, and how many acres those trees will cover in 25 years.

It's $6 grand for the first part and another $6 grand for them to come back after completion and verify everything. I'd be most interested in just the heating and cooling part, as we are in the upper Midwest. Can't an HVAC guy do that just the same?

I'd be inclined to skip this service. 12K sounds like too much money. How long do you intend to live in this house? If you stay in this house 10 more years, you'd have to save $100 from your energy bills every month just to break even.

I suggest that you investigate (on your own, for free) ways to save money on your electrical bills and put those things into practice. Your bills may not be as low as they would be if you used the company and did everything they suggest, but I think you'll save money.

$12K ?????

For a single family home ?

Yup. I assume they "analyze" every square inch of the house, so walls, basement and garage are included in their square footage. It's priced on square feet, and somehow they have almost doubled the square footage of our house for their $6k number.

I just don't see how their recommendations can vary that greatly among the houses they analyze. Why would one house in the area need geothermal and another need solar? I don't think we are even going to do one of those systems. I keep telling DH, why can't we just use the utility company's electricity and get a furnace like everyone else? Yes, saving energy is super, but it will take a long time to recoup the cost of their service, if ever.

$12K sounds pricey to me. It is more than we are paying our "green consultant" (rating required by local code) in an expensive area. Our consultant looks at HVAC, insulation, building materials, water management, etc. and also is handling our California Title 24 compliance and doing the paperwork for various rebates and credits. You might look into whether there are rebate/credit programs that might offset some of the costs of an energy audit or analysis. You might also prefer to rely on an architect, builder, and/or HVAC person who is focused on such things . . .

Good luck!

That price is more than double what we paid for similar services in an extremely expensive construction area in the northeast, so you might want to shop around. Here it is required as one way of meeting the new stretch energy requirements of the building code. That said, the report was very useful in helping us to decide to go a deep energy retrofit route on the old part of the house we remodeled and added on to.

12k? wow. find yourself an architect that knows a thing or 2 about good design and you shouldn't have to pay for double services. I have charged anywhere from 1k-3k max for similar things, however I include additional things such as key air sealing detailing, window spec'ing, and the obviously of house insulation recommendations and loading based on each wall construction type. 12k is a crazy number to do that for a home.
Can you do this yourself....sure. Lots of reading, training, and correct programs (hint, nothing free online will get you what you need). Knowledge of dew points, solar angles and orientations, latent and sensible loading, cfms, r/u values, clear wall values, thermal bridging, air leaking, etc would be things you need to learn about.
(but you answer your question, absolutely does geo vs solar vs wind vs whatever does depend on the specific home and various varying site related implications)

$12k is crazy in my mind. You can get a full manual J/D/S for $I really would recommend getting a manual J and possibly a manual D. This will get you the correct sizing on your a/c and heating units. The manual D is great if you want it (not much more money) but you may have a little harder time finding a good a/c guy willing to follow it correctly. I would just get those calculated/drawn up, invest in decent windows, air seal the best you can (exterior foam sheating that is taped/staggered seams).

What size house and where at in the country?

12k does seem way over the top. We were given an estimate of 1500-2000 to get our home "certified" by a local Oregon energy audit company. This is one of these companies that look at everything not just HVAC. Basically I was told that, especially in a rather green part of the country, these types of certification add value to your resale (as well of course your own piece of mind that you didn't just have a poorly constructed home buit due to contractors cutting corners).

The manual J is a good recommendation but as I just discovered..ask for the full manual J calcs and look over them. I did so when it was suggested my HVAC size was oversized for the type of home i was building. It didn't take long of looking over the calcs to find a big problem with the U value of our windows that the tech used...So even tho a manual J was done, don't always assume it was done carefully or right lol. Catching this error let us go down a full size from 4 ton to 3 ton in our chosen model O.o

in our parts its required for the hvac to do the manual J calcs. You should not be paying extra for this. However they need to use correct data, as mentioned above. In order to accurately review, you also need to know what the data means and is referring too.

However if you have any desire to build a high performance home the basic manual J and D calcs are under what you need to get accurate numbers. Full home modeling is done taken into account glazing, thermal bridge, air leaks (air exchanges), clear and continuous insulation values. My 3800 sqft heating home in zone 6 called for a manual J to have a 5 ton furnace and 4 ton ac. Using my programs with correct modeling as mentioned above, solar heat gain values in the design, and proper air exchange guesses, it was spitting out a mere 2 tons for cooling and 2.5 tons for heating. So against what the hvac installer wanted to do (but understood the results and goal of the home) installed a 2 ton ac and a variable speed furnace from 18k btu to 70k btu. Good thing he did as the furnace has ran mainly in low speed and ac runs as it should no problem keeping the home comfortable. Electric bills for cooling are $60 for 3800 sqft and heating is about the same for gas. so yes, this type of design and construction does and can pay off, but the time and effort upfront needs to be invested in the design, modeling and research.

That price is way to much. I have looked at a company out of Texas to do our energy audit. Look at their site. We are building with ICF so it would be real easy to over do the HVAC. The company is called Energywise Structures.

www.resnet.us

I agree that 12K is overpriced.
energy raters rate the house from plans, make recommendations & verify during build & when house
is competed. testing of the house & ducts for air leakage
is part of the package.

having a second pair of eyes focused on efficiency
is a good thing. code inspectors focus on minimum
safety, builder has his focus, raters have one job.
independent verification & work for the homeowner.

don't let this companys oversell tatics sour you to
investing in efficiency. not every company forces
things you aren't interested in upon you.

an unbiased effieicncy expert can save you lot
of money now & in the future.

best of luck.

You make an interesting point energyrater, about it being independent. The builder we are considering actually gives us no choice about the energy guy, and the energy guy's contract says he will only work with that builder. This is looking like a big red flag to me.

tell builder you want your to hire your own energy rater.
who hires the reater makes a lot of difference.
I've worked WITH builders, but always FOR the homeowner.

this way homeowner gets reports & info & has the choice to share the reports with builder etc.

best of luck.