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alabamanicole

Electrical diagram comments, please (xpost with lighting)

17 years ago

Any thoughts on the electrical diagram below, particularly in respect to lighting placement? I don't know if I did it right. I plan to use double and triple switch boxes, so when you see a single switch controlling what looks like multiple circuits, that's a switch box with multiple switches.

At this time, I am not including any dimmer switches. Since incandescents are legally on their way out it seems silly to plan a lighting design around them. I don't like LEDs at this point and compact florescent look lousy dimmed (for now, everything is on/off. Alas.

First floor:

{{gwi:1508967}}

Second floor:

{{gwi:1508968}}

Basement:

{{gwi:1508969}}

Comments (21)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Weather protected receptacles are required at the terrace and porch. Also bathrooms need exhaust fans and kitchens need power to hoods and appliances. A fixed kitchen island will need a receptacle. There appear to be points along the walls more than 6 ft. from a receptacle.

    What makes you think incandescents are legally on their way out? You only have to meet the building/energy code at the time of construction and dimmers work fine with all types of lighting if it is designed properly.

    What you want to avoid doing is installing incandescent lighting and then using those afterthought CFLs with the cheap throw-away integral ballasts. If you want good cost efficient fluorescent lighting, install properly designed fixtures with permanent ballasts and put them on dimmers if you like. Or use the new infra-red reflecting energy saving halogen incandescent lamps.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Also, I don't see a circuit run the the water heater. Another idea I read about is having a lighted switch (I forgot what they are called) in the crawl space so you can easily find it in the dark.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    - Good advice from my electrician --> place a receptacle below each wall switch as they will almost always be accessible. Don't be too stingy by placing receptacles precisely at 12' apart

    - Exterior GFCI receptacles on each side of house (particularly on deck and in raised garden area), in roof soffits (Christmas lights) and possibly elsewhere in yard for future use.

    - Low voltage lighting for exterior (use an exterior 120V receptacle for transformer placement)

    - No light above the library seats (er, toilets)?

    - Maybe another ceiling light in kitchen, garage and closet for Bdrm 2

    - Surge protection for kitchen appliances and media room electronics

    - Workshop --> more lighting (this should be a very well lit space), receptacles along right side wall and in ceiling. Maybe a 240V ckt for heavy duty tools such as table saw or vacuum.

    - Add one or two of the small fluorescent closet lights in crawl space

    - Wiring --> many electricians are using 12 ga wiring for all 120V circuits. However, unless you run both lighting and receptacles off a switch, I strongly suggest using 14 ga for all lighting runs. 12 ga wire provides a good safety margin for receptacles but residential lighting almost never overloads wiring between the switch and the light fixture. 14ga is easier to work with if you do any of your own lighting installation.

    Have I spent enough of your money? Love the Solatube. Wait and see what a full moon does to the room. All the above recommendations are based on personal experience or lessons learned during the recently completed construction of my house.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    macv-

    Incandescent light bulbs will be legally phased out. This is not a code related change - it is a law.

    OP - I am surprised that you don't like LEDs - like CFLs there are good and bad. As incandescents disappear, the alternatives will only get better.

    2 lights in relatively small closets - we just did flourescent tubes. A single light in the kitchen better be something impressive. On an a non electrical manner - the window from MB to screened porch will not give much light, not give any view, maybe a privacy issue, and will allow some sound to travel in. Also, a pocket door to the master bath is not a lot of fun. I would be tortured by that. When one person has to get up in the middle of the night and wants to shut the door. Fumbling for the small handle in the middle of the night. Getting on the toilet and then realizing you want extra privacy - and trying to close the pocket door at that point. The issues go on and on - have you lived with a pocket door to a master bath?

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks to all for the great comments!

    Macv, thanks, added the island electric and for the range and hood. I know the outside outlets need to be protected and also GFCI circuits in the baths, kitchen, garage, utility and basement, but I didn't have icons for those so it's on my paper specs. There are no spots in the kitchen with outlets more than 6' apart.

    Incandescents will be illegal in the US 2012, unless some of the research into more energy efficient incandescents pays off. Since GE has pulled out, it's looking grim. Why install fixtures lights that you won't be able to buy bulbs for in 2 years?

    Halogens are too hot; I've had them before. I am not sold on CFL's -- I don't like the look -- so I am trying to hedge my bets. I do use CFL's for now since.

    ------------

    David, I've looked at LED bulbs in lighting stores and I just don't like the quality of light for general lighting. I will probably use them for task lighting and the safety lighting on the stairs (oops, missed that on the diagram, too). I am sure LEDs will improve but right now they are too prohibitively expensive for such poor light.

    It's just me, so I don't bother to close the door anyway. :) But... I have spec'ed out that the pocket doors will work like they do on trains -- they will have a real handle and won't recess all the way.

    The 2nd window in the master is most for safety issues; the other window may be WAY above the ground.

    -----------

    Terry, no no lights about the toilets. :) I don't spend that much time on the toilet and I really think the other lights will be sufficient. They are fairly small bathrooms. I added the solar tube because that bath has no window at all and I hope it will look great. I'm pondering a multi-tube unit and extending it into the closet as well.

    "- Maybe another ceiling light in kitchen, garage and closet for Bdrm 2 " -- I might put three pendants over the island. But I was thinking the cove lighting would be ample "general" lighting. The garage... yeah, maybe. Shop lights are cheap.

    "- Workshop --> more lighting (this should be a very well lit space), receptacles along right side wall and in ceiling... " -- This won't actually be a workshop, it'll be a fish room. I just didn't want to try and explain to the bank what a fish room was. :) The garage will really be my workshop, and I think you're right -- I'm shy a few outlets there.

    The basement/crawlspace is somewhat of a mystery right now. It's a side sloping lot and we're expecting to hit large boulders if not bedrock on the crawlspace side. I may end up with a full basement, or extra portions... so it's very likely that crawlspace wall won't be there or will be different. That's why I didn't put any fixtures there. Once excavation starts I'll probably have to revisit the whole floor anyway.

    I have been debating a good quality fluorescent in closets in lieu of overhead fixtures. I kind of got turned off to it in my old house since it made everything in the closet look dreadful, but I suspect it was just a poor fixture.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    rsc2a - Water heater - check. Good call.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Incandescent light bulbs will be legally phased out. This is not a code related change - it is a law.

    The law sets efficiency standards, it does NOT stipulate method. In fact, there are many successful efforts to up the lumens per watt of incandescent bulbs to surpass the 2012 and 2020 restrictions.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    On the first floor, would it make sense to use a 3-way switch for the flood lights and put a switch next to the window in the master suite?

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Closets typically can't have the usual ceiling fixtures unless they are large. There needs to be a certain distance clear from the light if it is incandescent and in most closets there isn't enough room.

    shadow700 - fair enough. But it is definitely not a code issue.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    shadow700 -- I thought about a panic switch in the master bedroom for the flood lights. When I was doing the plan, I didn't put it on but it is definitely still worth considering.

    You have more faith than I that they are going to be able to ramp up the energy efficiency of incandescents enough, but I'm rooting for them. If incandescents could get somewhat close to CFL, they'd never sell another corkscrew bulb.

    David,
    "here needs to be a certain distance clear from the light if it is incandescent and in most closets there isn't enough room. "

    Is this new? I've had plenty of closets with light fixtures inside that weren't fluorescent. All of them have 9' ceilings, though, as does this house. I'm not anti-fluorescent fixture, I'm just anti-bad fluorescent and don't know enough to be sure I get a good one.

    Going to Staples and having my Visio files printed really big is helping me find more missing items. I'll post a revised version later after I give it another going over.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Here's the revised plan. Closet fixtures are tentative. It does not include a panic switch for the exterior floods in the master bedroom, but that's a possible add.

    A little bit of color coding hopefully makes some of the more tangled parts clearer.

    {{gwi:1508970}}

    {{gwi:1508971}}

    {{gwi:1508972}}

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    (1)Do you want task lighting over the sink in the laundry?

    (2)I'd draw in my furniture if I were you. You may not want to center the lights in the room. Example -- If the bed is not centered in the bedroom, you may want the fan centered on the bed.

    (3)You might want to install a switch for the floods in the covered porch; that way you don't have go inside to turn the exterior lights on if you are laying around on the porch.

    (4)I'd put several more plugs on the exterior...thinking off the top of my head, outside the garage and outside the basement door. Another idea is soffit plugs for Christmas lights.

    (5) No overheads on the front porch?

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    1) Good question. I don't think so; I think the utility fixture will be adequate.

    2) That's something to think about.

    3) How many switches for one fixture can you have? I do plan on having those flood lights on a motion sensor (when it's after dark).

    4) I do need both those locations, thanks. I don't see myself ever hanging Christmas lights, though.

    5) Hmmm. I don't see any real need for them, but I guess that depends on how bright the wall mounted lights are. I did add two more wall-mounted front lights at the dining room. Looking at the elevation I suspected it would look dumb to have them at the garage and at the porch and not in between. If so perhaps those lights should be fairly dim, and then have overheads on the porch?

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If you use the more efficient halogen and/or halogen IR coated lamps in either an A or a PAR type you will be fine until 2020. By that time (probably much sooner) you will have a choice of halogen PAR, CFL or LED lamps that all meet the energy standards that begin at that time.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The new Federal energy requirements for "light bulbs" (lamps) appears to be misunderstood by the general public.

    The intent of the new law is simply to stop the manufacture of the inexpensive but terribly inefficient old style "light bulbs" (tungsten-filament A-lamps) that have remained essentially unchanged for over 125 years.

    A law was thought to be necessary because the majority of consumers were not buying the newer more expensive tungsten-halogen incandescent lamps that are 20 to 30% more efficient even though the cost break-even period is less than 6 months and the halogen lamps last 2 to 3 times longer.

    The new law just dumps the cheap tungsten incandescent light bulbs off the market and forces consumers to buy the more energy efficient and cost effective tungsten-halogen incandescent lamps.

    The consumer's option to buy CFL or LED lamps instead of incandescent lamps is not affected by this law.

    Manufacturers have already started reducing their output of the old standard bulbs since these lamps were not very profitable. Hopefully the increase in supply of the halogen lamps will bring down the price.

    So, for the next 10 years all that will happen is that general-use, medium screw base "light bulbs" available in stores will become 20 to 30% more efficient, last three times as long and cost more, but be more cost effective.

    In 10 years the law will evaluate the electrical energy savings and determine if stricter standards are needed. By that time all of the lamp types should have sufficient energy and cost efficiency to avoid much of a change unless the typical consumer is slow to buy those products.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The new law just dumps the cheap tungsten incandescent light bulbs off the market and forces consumers to buy the more energy efficient and cost effective tungsten-halogen incandescent lamps.

    The new law does nothing of the sort. As I mentioned before, it just sets lighting efficiency standards as a function of lumens per watt.

    I know of at least 3 companies that are working on commercialization of processes that increase the efficiency of the "cheap tungsten" lamps to surpass the 2012 standard and, hopefully, the 2020 standard.

    In one case, the final product is still a "cheap tungsten", but the filament has been laser treated before installation. This simple process translates into a better-than-2012 efficiency.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The law was not formulated with the hope that there would be a breakthrough in tungsten filament manufacturing before the 2012 deadline; it was responding to the reality of current technology and consumer attitudes. The part of the law intended to encourage future technological improvements is the second part that will set standards for 2020 based on the results of the first part.

    If the laser treatment works for the standard tungsten filament it might also equally improve the performance of the tungsten filament in a halogen lamp, in which case the legislation standards might be raised to encourage the use of the halogen lamps. We won't know until they actually make a laser treated lamp for sale and that appears to be some time off.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Additional recommendations:

    - a small light for eave storage space. Leviton makes the small closet model I mentioned earlier and have installed in my coat/linen closets (model 9860-B).

    - plan for generator back-up and decide which circuits are essential for cut-over via transfer switch.

    - storm shelter should have a battery pack light, such as those seen in commercial buildings, in case of power loss. (Include this space with generator power but storm could knock out the generator.)

    - at least one more exterior 20A receptacle on either front of garage or kitchen wall or just inside garage on wall against laundry room sink.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks, Terry. Both eave storage spaces on the left of the house will have small lights -- the modern equivalent of a light on a chain, I guess. The eave storage space on the right doesn't need one -- the knee wall is required by local code, but I'll be taking out that knee wall later and using that space to install cabinets or shelving or a nook for the dresser... lots of possible uses for 5' of height that isn't a head banger. We're not even installing an access panel now and I've instructed the builder not to run any cable through that wall.

    Unfortunately a backup generator is not in the budget. I have a Honda generator I can use with enough power for critical things like the fridges, freezer and coffee pot. :)

    All this input has been enormously helpful! Thank you, everyone.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Nicole,

    You should still plan for a transfer switch for essential circuits. The switch can be rated for a whole house generator but will easily handle smaller portable (and cheaper)generators. You need this switch or any generator connected to your electrical system will send electricity out through the power company lines as well as through your in-house wiring. Called backfeeding, it has resulted in injuries and deaths to linemen working on power outages. Even a little 1 or 3KW generator can pack a deadly wallop. Many areas have made it unlawful to connect a generator to a house without isolating the power company lines.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Terry, I don't connect a generator to the house.

    Last I heard they would not allow connecting a generator at all in this city, but that was 2 years ago and they have changed their stance on a lot of positions since then. (Like geothermal and conditioned crawlspaces.)