I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions so I step outside the box with one as an alternative with induction. It is going to be two steps outside actually.
Two Miele 60mm KM6328 units will give you 8 zones in 48". Ship from Germany or the UK. Units are about 11lbs. each.
Each unit gives you two front to back bridging zones.
You need a letter from your insurer and electrician installation. Safe for kids, easy to keep clean and usable as countertop when not cooking. Ovens can go under or wherever you want. Cheaper versions from AEG with Maxisense are an alternative.

Here is a link that might be useful: Skinflint price shopper

And what if something goes wrong with that imported induction cooktop? Is it approved for installation over ovens? If not, how do you know if the OP's kitchen plan accommodates ovens elsewhere?

>The poor quality control really gives me pause, however

Just curious, where are you getting that it has poor quality control? Yes, like any product it has some bad reviews, but there are many happy owners as well. in my readings NXR doesn't really fare worse than anyone else quality wise. I see just as many if not more negative reviews about quality control on some much more expensive/premium brands.

First off, what is your budget? Hard to make any recommendations without knowing, and NXR's pricing doesn't really compare to other ranges in its class so it's hard to establish a benchmark from that.

Then you need to decide between all gas and dual fuel. Dual fuel ranges are known for more even ovens in general. However, they also use electronics, which have the potential to reduce overall longevity, and they require fans to cool those electronics, which means hot air blowing. And, they use more proprietary parts and can be harder to service yourself.

Sealed burners are not necessarily easier to clean, many open burner owners are very happy with the cleanability of their ranges. I would not eliminate these from your consideration, especially if you want powerful burners.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Tue, Dec 2, 14 at 16:34

I have a Blue Star. It is ridiculously easy to clean. The cast iron grates season beautifully. So much better than stainless or enamel, IMHO. Last night, DH was mixing a pot of chili on the stove and got a big hunk of it on the burner. I waited until it cooled down, took the big pieces off and brushed the rest into the drip pan underneath. Easy peasy. I would never in a million years go back to sealed burners. Period.

I have said this before, but the Blue Star has made cooking incredibly enjoyable. The amazing power of the burners, combined with the gentleness of the one simmer burner, is wonderful. I think that the oven cooks really nicely. The range is simple to fix. I don't see why it would not meet all or your needs if you can get over the sealed burner preference.

The universe of ranges that are sealed burners and the same(similar) btus all around is quite finite.

IIRC Thermador pro harmony, five star, and GE monogram have all the same size. Capital precision and DCS are fairly close front to back, wolf has 3/4 the same.

That induction unit would be incredible, Dan ...if it was sold in the US. Hopefully someday sonn that type will catch on over here. We're not comfortable putting that in, unfortunately. Living in a rural area, it could be tough to get a tech out this way that would have the temerity to service it, if needed.

Good questions, hvtech42. True enough, I've seen both good and lousy reviews on many different appliances. I think I'm more hesitant that if we got a lemon of an NXR, how would we deal with it from there? There's no local support.

Budget? Well...not sure, to be honest. We could potentially go more expensive than a pair of NXR's, we just need to know that the gains justify the extra expenditure. I don't need the stoves to impress anyone, I really just want them to work well for our family.

Thanks for sharing about your Blue Star, nycbluedevil. After having tried to keep a former base level Kenmore gas stove's enamel grates clean (grrrrr....wasn't possible!), I can appreciate that the cast iron grates season well and clean up nicely. I love my cast iron cookware, so that makes sense to me.

I don't think the Blue Star meets my desire for same size burners, does it? (My eyes are crossing from trying to look at all the different ranges on AJ Madison and elsewhere.) Also, I thought the Blue Star was one of the stoves that tended to pump out a lot of heat toward the user and can have a really hot door front. Have you found these to be the case?

That's the kind of list I'm looking for HerrDoktorProfessor! I've spent way too many hours trying to figure out btu's and burner configurations of various range tops. Thank you.

Thank you all for helping me work this one through.

Blue Star lets you customize your burners. I am pretty sure that a 30" range will have the two 22K burners in the front, one 15k burner on the back right and the simmer burner on the back left. This would be the standard configuration. But you could change that around and I believe even get all the same size. Although I am not sure why you would not want some flexibility by having a few smaller burners. With two ranges, you would be able to cover four 22K burners with two griddles and still have four burners to spare.

You could get a 60" range instead of two 30" ranges. That would give you more burners for the same real estate. I think you get 10. You could do a big 24" griddle and six burners. Go to Blue Star's website and check out the possibilities. If you are really willing to devote 60" to a range, you have options.

Since you mentioned the budget could grow with the right options... if you havent already, check out Lacanche. A really big selection of burner configurations, and oven configurations, widths, colors. I have a Volnay, electric warming oven, gas oven, traditional (french top) plus four burners (39" wide). If I'd had room I'd have gone for the the la plancha option too! Burners are powerful. And they are stunning to boot. Frenchranges.com
And nope, I dont work for them! Lol. This isnt my range in the picture, btw.

Nycbluedevil, on your recommendation I went to BS's website. Through that I was able to find a dealer an hour away that sells not only BS's but also NXR's. I'm waiting to hear back from them on pricing.

From what I understand, the NXR's burners go from super low to super high. This way I could put pans anywhere and customize the flame at the touch of a knob. I used a friend's gas cooktop that had variety-sized burners, and it made me batty. In the few days I was there cooking extensively, I never got used to which ones were which. I wanted to just be able to put a pan on there and use the thing. I felt like the "wrong" sizes were in all the "right" places for what I was making at the moment. I learned some good insights while working in her kitchen. I love when I can drive someone else's layout and appliances for a bit! : )

Oh, OOTM, those stoves are so beautiful. Works of art. The strange sizing would be challenging to work around with standard cabinets, though. And I think I'd have a hard time justifying the price. Even if it did make me swoon when I walked into the kitchen, I think I'd see dollar signs every time I came to. I'll enjoy them in pictures. ; )

Great, you really do want to see these in person. Here's a bit more info on Blue Star. There are three "levels" of their ranges--the RCS (most inexpensive), the RNB (the "classic" Blue Star range) and the recently-introduced Platinum. The Platinum seems to be having some issues, from the comments here on the forum. The RCS doesn't have the 22K burners (I think) and the oven interior is not quite as nice--no gliding rack and no speckled interior, from what I understand. I think there are also a few other cosmetic differences.

I have a 36" RNB with the built-in grill. I know that the RNB comes in 60" but am not sure about the others.

I can tell you about the RNB burners. There are three levels of burner--the 22K big boys, the 15K burner and the simmer burner. Honestly, on the big burner, I can do a mean wok stir fry at full power but I can also cook rice when I turn the burner down all the way, so it really is very flexible. In fact, unless I need to hold something at temperature for a good long while, I pretty much use the 22K burners all the time. That's probably why the default configuration is to put the two 22K burners in front. The 15K burner is still pretty powerful but I guess because it is in the back, I don't use it that often, mostly when the two front ones are busy. I would have been happy with three 22K burners and a simmer burner. Blue Star will let you customize, which is really great.

Before you go to the dealer, spend a good long time on the website and educate yourself. There is a lot there and it will make your dealer visit more productive.

I don't know anything about NXR except what I read here. I think that Costco sells them. Is there one near you?

>>> spread across 4 griddles on 8 burners. * * * We'd like to find one where we don't have to fiddle around with rotating racks, and ideally, that would hold as many racks of possible (b/c, after all, DH wants More Cookies! LOL) * * * I'd love to do induction, but can't wrap my head around how to make all of those little burners with 1 large burner work for us.Well, there are a couple of induction possibilities that might work for you. One is the soon-to-be released Wolf induction cooktops which have multiple bridging options. Have you seen this thread:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg1111562818638.html?9

The other could be a pair of GE induction ranges.

GE's induction ranges have an 11" burner at the right front and two 8" burners on the left. Not all burners the same size, but maybe close-enough for your cooking? The PHB920 freestanding model is currently about $1700 to $1800, which is about what I paid for my NXR.

Consider that the rule of thumb for the most even heating on induction you want pan bases up to an inch larger in diameter than the burner. This is usually no big deal for large stockpots and pressure cookers --- for boiling/heating liquids and deep oil, it is usually burner power that matters, and not so much the burner spread. The burner sizing will likely be more of a concern with larger fry and saute pans. Most 12"-inch fry pans have bases around 9" in diameter, so seem to be within spec for even heating on those 8" burners. That seemed to be the case when I was able to check out the similar GE predecessor, PHB925, at a demo session about 3 years ago. So, in practical effect, the GE induction range might let you run three largish pans at a time (or six largish pans if you double up the ranges).

For griddles, GE also says you can span the two 8" burners. You have to manually set each burner, but that seems to be a minor matter. (The currently available ranges which link burner controls for bridging -- IIRC, Samsung's NE597 and the freestanding Electrolux --- use 7" diameter burners which might not be big enough for you). A couple of years ago, I saw spanning demonstrated on GE's previous PHB925 model (same burner layout as the current PHB920). I think they used a Chef King 14x23 carbon steel griddle for this. BTW, if interested in griddles, there are a number of threads here discussing Chef King griddles being very good and rather inexpensive for both induction and NXR ranges.

The possible downside to getting a pair of induction ranges for this is that you can only use 2 big rectangular griddles on 4 burners. You'd have to use square griddle pans on the 11" burners.

Further on burner spanning rectangular griddles, you will get some cooler areas on any griddle on any kind of range unless they have an actual bridging element between the burners you are spanning -- i.e., one that puts heat directly into the middle area between the burners. That's true on the NXR as well as on induction ranges, in my experience. I use a Lodge cast-iron 10x20 griddle on my NXR and the area in the middle (between the burners) is noticeably less hot than the areas directly above the burners. Bacon, pancakes, eggs, etc. in the middle areas take a couple of minutes longer to cook properly than the same things on the parts above the flames. This is true even with long, slow preheating.

Frankly, my opinion on this particular subject is now inclining back towards using aluminum-nonstick 24x11 electric griddles like the BroilKings. Stash them when not in use, pull them out for the once a week breakfast marathons. These don't have the "gap" problems for mass production of pancakes etc. How often will you otherwise need/use 6 or 8 full size burners and griddles? For myself, I might be inclined to get just one range, consider an additional wall oven, get a couple the big Broil-King electric griddles, and maybe get a couple of portable induction burners for when I need to run more big pots than I can fit on the stove.

That brings me to the subject of "holding multiple large pots." Pro-style ranges like the NXR may or may not have an edge for you depending on how many large pots you will be using at one time and also on how large they are.

One of the things I really like about my 30" NXR --- and most of the pro-style ranges --- is their wider burner spacing --- 11" centers, front to back versus 9" on standard ranges --- and having all full-range burners. That set-up gives me the convenience of running a pair of 12" fry pans on the front burners with a 10 quart pressure cooker and 12 quart stock pot or 7 quart dutch oven on the back burners. When I checked out the previous model GE freestanding induction range, it was more constricted. Maybe, two large fry pans on the front burners and one 9" or 10" diameter pan on the back left burner. Only a saucepan on the back right burner.

Depending on how big your groups are and what you cook, a pro-style range might or might not have an edge in convenience for you.

As for ovens, the NXR ovens are pretty good, but they have some limitations. At 4.2 cu. ft., they not especially deep nor are they very tall. There are only two racks and five rack positions. That might be a concern with your large scale cookie baking. Also, the convection fan housing protrudes into the oven which makes actual capacity kind of shallow. That means you can't put two cookie sheets side-by-side on a rack (something I could do on my former GE dual-fuel range).

I've found the NXR convection fan to produce fairly even heating for roasting and some baking (such as bread), but not-so-much for multiple trays of small-sized things like cookies and biscuits. For me, the NXR oven requires shuffling and rotating cookie and biscuit pans half way through. The result is that I sometimes miss the greater depth and size, and convection flexibility, of the electric oven in my prior dual-fuel GE with its 5.4 cu. ft. oven.

The current GE induction ranges have a similar 5.4 cu. ft. ovens. They get pretty high marks for capacity and evenness. They also have a full size convection heating element -- 2000 watts in comparison to most third-elements being only 300 to 400 watts. That seems like it might be useful, but I have not run across much write-up on it yet. Still, if you want two large ovens and no juggling pans during baking, the GE ranges might be a better bet than a pair of NXRs. (Can't really speak to 48" and 60" gas ranges.)

You mentioned canning. GE says you can run canning kettles on the induction ranges. Large capacity water bath pots can be had in magnetic stainless from the likes of Walmart and rural hardware stores and, as pots go, they are inexpensive. Pressure canners are a different matter. All of the large capacity ones -- I'm thinking of the 20/30/40 quart All American models --- are aluminum. That's fine on the NXR but not usable on the induction ranges without an adapter disk or magnetic steel plate. . From personal experience, it is just not worth trying to use a big All American on an induction adapter disk. (IME, they take forever-and-a-day to come to pressure).

For smaller volume canning projects (say, 4 or 5 quart-sized jars at a time), there is better news. Fagor sells some 10 quart models (ranging from $100 for a "Rapida" model (at Costco.com) to $200 for Fagor's premium "Chef" model). Kuhn Rikon has a 12 quart model ($370 -- ouch ). These can be used for pressure canning on induction. FWIW, they work fine on my NXR, too.

Regarding kitchen heat --- well, the NXR is a gas stove. Every all-gas stove tends to pump heat into the kitchen even if the oven door isn't going to burn you. Get a pair of all gas ranges going or a 48" or 60" gas range and there will be no getting round them being gas ranges and the kitchen will get hotter than it would with induction ranges.

Looking at your list of priorities/concerns, there is one that a couple of GE induction ranges won't be able to meet. #3 -- induction ranges won't be easily serviced at home with readily available inexpensive generic parts. Depending on how far you are from a city, GE parts may be readily available, but the induction parts won't be inexpensive and servicing electronics can require some tools and skills that the average home-handyperson may not have.

Some other comments stemming from your mention of living in a rural area and being three hours away from a Costco. (These comments come from my living in rural Montana some distance from anything passing for a city.)

First, do you have natural gas service or will you need to use propane? If the latter, consider that you will need to buy and install a propane conversion kit for the NXR. That conversion will take time and likely will result in a bit of a reduction in the burner outputs. (I live in a town with natural gas service, so this wasn't a concern for me.)

Second, induction ranges will just plug right in. However, unless your kitchen has had a separate cooktop and wall-ovens, you likely would need to add a second 40-Amp 240v circuit. Depending on where you live and the layout of your house, and whether you can do the work yourselves, this could be an expensive addition to a budget.

Third, while propane can be expensive, so can rural electrical service. Is your power is from from a rural electric coop? In my area, "deregulation" and the resulting market manipulations inflicted huge cost increases on some of the smaller rural electric coops, forcing rates up as high as 40 cents/kWh. That kind of cost could make any electric stove undesirable. (Fortunately for me, our town is served by a large regional power company with its own hydro plants and the rates are around 11 cents/kWh, so not bad by national standards.)

Fourth, in responding to HVtech, you mentioned concerns about what to do if you got a lemon of an NXR. I think HVtech was correct in saying that NXRs don't seem to have any more quality control issues than other brands, but your concern is properly focused on post-sale support. I think this will be true for most small-market-share brands.

So, is one of your vehicles a pick-up? Kind of seems de rigueur for rural living, but not everybody here has one. If you have one or can borrow one, I would just load up a defective NXR, drive the stove to a Costco store for them to unload and hand me a full refund. That was my thinking on this subject when I bought my NXR from Costco.com. (I happen to have two vehicles and one is a pickup -- doesn't everybody working on an old house need to have an old pickup?) Also, have you seen the posts here by black88mx6 who had some problems with the first NXR he received? He was able to have Costco deliver a second range and then took his first range back to Costco for a full refund.

A final thought or question: are you also planning for range hoods and venting and has that been factored into your budget?

This post was edited by JWVideo on Wed, Dec 3, 14 at 19:52

Makeup air is the problem you run into with all that gas firepower when you crank up the hoods you need to vent. You may not have set requirements yet in a rural area. Other locations set conditioning requirements that add large costs to your budget.
Induction requires proportionally less ventilation because of the big difference in waste heat produced.
Possibility is completely different than probability when evaluating a course of action and the cost over time.
Miele units are among the most reliable anywhere so the probability of a problem is low enough to take service needs out of the equation, imo. And I would choose it over Wolf for induction. But you may need to research on your own to make your evaluation if you wish. 50mm of space is required beneath a unit before an oven can be installed.
The AEG units are under $700 a piece plus shipping and are an Electrolux product. Again, if you wish to do the research you can get an excellent setup at a very good price with low probability of ever having a problem. There are many ways to accomplish what you want.

I'm considering all you all are sharing. I will write more later, but I want to take a moment right now to give you a huge

THANK YOU for all of your helpfulness! : )

>Miele units are among the most reliable anywhere so the probability of a problem is low enough to take service needs out of the equation, imo

Absolutely disagree with this. No appliance is reliable enough to take service needs out of the equation. They all break, including Miele. What about warranty? Plus Miele is far more expensive to repair than domestic brands.

Everyone dies, everything breaks, the sun will go super nova tomorrow. Certainly words to live by.
And I respect your right to live as you choose.
Please do the same.

If I were getting two 30" ranges, one would be gas (preferably with a griddle) and one would be induction, one would have a double oven and the other would be a very large single oven. If they are going to be side-by-side (here you have to make a decision as to who is really doing the cooking if only one person is cooking then they must be as close together as possible), I would buy them from the same appliance line so that they looked the same. You have to be careful with the side-by-side concept do you want a cabinet in between them so that you have a landing space to each side of the cooktops...even enough just to lay a spoon down? I completely agree with you that the burners needs to go from zero to very high BTU, I don't understand the manufacturer's fantasy that we all need three simmer burners and one real burner. I think that they presume that with all of the big grates on top, we are sliding the pots around the stove top and on and off the one big burner. It is ridiculous. I have a 30" gas Frigidaire range with griddle fggf3054mw. Two burners have great power, the third is not bad, the fourth is a simmer burner which can only be used to simmer and works well for that purpose...although recently I've noticed that it has begun blowing out on the lowest two settings. The griddle is my favorite burner. The oven heats consistently. Unfortunately I really like white kitchen appliances and the top around the burners began rusting within a month of the purchase. Rust is not covered by any manufacturers warranty. Trust me, Frigidaire doesn't give a d*** about the rust. I use barkeepers friend to keep it at bay. None of the manufacturers make burner drip pans for their gas ranges anymore. This is too bad. On my old range when I was done cooking, I would take the drip pans off the stove, toss them into the dishwasher and the next morning I would put them back on the stove and have a beautiful clean stove, ready to go, with minimal effort. Now I have to work for the same effect...I am underwhelmed. I really do not want to spend all of the hours of my life cleaning kitchen appliances. Best of luck.

>Everyone dies, everything breaks, the sun will go super nova tomorrow. Certainly words to live by.

Unfortunately, this is true in the appliance industry. Although some brands are more reliable than others overall, none of them are immune to failure, including Miele. Ignoring this is ignoring the truth.

>And I respect your right to live as you choose. Please do the same.

How is disagreeing with you not respecting your right to live as you choose? I respect your right to live as you choose, but I think the OP should seriously consider the risks before doing the same. Service is an important thing to think about when buying any appliance, and you can get screwed if you don't. Once someone here bought a Miele dishwasher without researching service beforehand. When it turned out to be defective, they could not get service in their area and Miele was unhelpful. And they did not even import this unit themselves, this model was officially available in the USA and they bought it at their local appliance store.

I own a Miele Diamonte DW as does a good friend. We and many other members here have had nothing but excellent quality experiences with this product line. And I have a longer positive history with my Miele washing machine.
They haven't died and no servicing has been needed. In fact a normal life expectancy and the inevitable death of an appliance has no bearing on appliance choice. That is because it is inevitable. But Miele products generally last longer.
Do the research and don't run your choices by one second hand report from someone without any stated personal experience.
My suggestion is outside the box but not unreasonable to a reasonable person. There are costs and risks to be weighed logically. It will not appeal to all and to the perennially pessimistic-- there is no chance and no logic, as I see.
Of course many factors financial and otherwise go into decisions and the evaluation of an important one can be complex. Good luck.

I too am a fan of Miele products. I have a Miele dishwasher as well. It is excellent. I expect it to last a long time. I agree that they are built better and in general, last longer.

However, it is impossible to produce a product on this scale without there being a few lemons in the mix. No manufacturer is immune to this. There are people on this forum who have had bad Miele experiences and would never buy a product from them again. Does that mean everyone should avoid Miele products? No! With any purchase this big though, one needs to tread cautiously. I made sure there was plenty of service available in my area before I bought my Miele dishwasher. I know that, in the unlikely event that it should break within the warranty period, I will be able to get it fixed in a timely manner at no cost to me. I doubt that would be possible with this induction cooktop.

Upscale appliances are expensive! If you buy one without any warranty or guarantee of readily available parts and qualified servicepeople, you need to prepare yourself to be out the entire amount you paid for it should something go wrong. Most people are simply not in the financial situation to do such a thing. I am not being a pessimist, I'm being a realist.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Thu, Dec 4, 14 at 20:15

"I might be inclined to get just one range, consider an additional wall oven, get a couple the big Broil-King electric griddles, and maybe get a couple of portable induction burners for when I need to run more big pots than I can fit on the stove."

This is where we were before my week long intensive big stove search. This is what we've been doing up until now. I have a Presto Tilt n Drain Big Griddle that I use several times a week for grilled sandwiches, pancakes, bacon, and fried eggs. I had picked up a giant Oster toaster oven that will hold 9 x 13 items. But it's performance is below mediocre. I have a CucinaPro electric frying pan that's gigantic. I thought it was going to be fantastic for frying large amounts of food, especially stir fries. It turns out that it doesn't handle the thermal shock of a large amount of cold food well. It's great for keeping food warm, but not so great for searing a large amount of beef or sauteeing large quantities of vegetables.

After reading up on many different options this week, I feel alternately mystified, horrified, "wearified" and my brain feels fried. : P

I love what I read about Bluestar's range tops. Their versatility sounds wonderful. I love that you can fit a full-size baking pan, 18x26, in them! Whoa. Then I read about doors sticking, doors failing, ignitors pooping out not long after installation, and other quality issues.

Which seems to be the same across the brands, when you get a good one, it's great, but like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead, when it's bad, it's really rather horrid.

There are some second-hand options I've looked into, such as a 48" Wolf rangetop and a 48" DCS LP range and hood combo deal. The Wolf has 6 burners and a griddle. The DCS has 4 burners, a griddle, and a grill (don't know if I'd use that one very much.)

I called DCS, and their large oven is 1/2" too narrow and a 1/2" too shallow to fit a full size baking sheet. Bah! So, so close. Maybe I should have a local metal working shop make me some *almost* full size baking sheets out of sheet steel. : )

Or, maybe we should just love the one we've got and have cords snaking every which direction to support a bunch of griddles and portable ind. units. Sigh.

Thank you all for your insights.

We recently got a Lacanche Volnay. I know people love their Blue Star ranges, but the fit and finish didn't impress me and there was too much chatter (random posts) of things gone wrong. But mostly, I fell in love with the beauty and high function combination the Lacanche offered. If your stuck, they might be worth looking at. They have some seriously large ranges with a lot of customizable options for burners, grill, etc. If nothing else they can provide you with a view toward creating your ideal range and help you go from there.

Had I not gone with a Lacanche, I'm not sure what I would have chosen - probably either a Blue Star or a Wolf. If I had to do it all again, I'd do the exact same thing. I think there are many Blue Star and Wolf (and other range owners) who feel the same way as me. It's really finding the best fit for you and your family.

So speaking of finding the right fit, have you been to look, touch, test, and cook on any of these ranges? If not, I'd really recommend doing so! Boil water, fry and egg, bake cookies, etc. The process of seeing, feeling, testing, and cooking on potential ranges can make a world of difference to your own decision making process. Good luck.

I know you didn't mean it seriously...but I think you are correct laughable, lots of plug ins is exactly where the market is going. You could buy a great countertop appliance for almost every single kitchen oven, burner, griddle, grill, roaster, etc....and still not approach the price of one high end range...you can move them easily from house to house and you don't have to redo the kitchen when one dies and you need a replacement....

I have the same big griddle and it is the best, cheapest alternative I've found to the tasks you outlined. I cook a pound of bacon, a dozen pancakes and scramble eggs for a crowd on that griddle. I use it all the time.

My DD has the big Wolf dual fuel. I made pancakes at her house and had to throw out several batches before I got the heat control right under the pans. I also used the griddle on her previous Wolf and it wasn't as large as the Presto and much harder to clean.

The Wolf ovens are good. But standing at that range gets very hot when both are going and you're also cooking on the top.

I much prefer a rangetop plus wall oven set up, as many do for the same reason.

However, you give up that big oven and the ability to hold a full sheet pan. If you have the situation where you cook for many people all the time, the full sheet pan thing is important. Long preheat times and a low oven come with that.

So I'd ask myself how often that would be needed? And would a 30-inch wall oven, which could offer other features, be a good alternative?

I have a Miele electric wall oven now for 8 years and it's been excellent. It's has European convection so I can start a turkey, f.ex. in a cold oven with no delay in cooking time. It requires a learning curve for the combination settings.

They just came out with ranges that might be worth a look. It's not the usual pro stuff and there's no feedback as it's so new.

Might be something to consider. Or not.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele ranges

Christy, La Canches are definitely some of the prettiest ranges I've ever seen online. I am glad to hear you are enjoying yours so thoroughly. Convincing DH to get one of those would be a really tough sell here. I love seeing pictures of other people's, though. ; )

Practigal, I was only half joking, LOL. You are so right, it makes a lot of sense to just get modular units that tuck away and don't affect the long term layout of the kitchen. DH and I are disenchanted with the reviews we've seen of the high end ranges. At least if a counter top unit dies, you can shrug, find a replacement, and move on.

Your post is very interesting to me, Rococogirl. I too will do a full pound of bacon on our Presto griddle, then when that is done, do 14-16 fried eggs on there with room to spare. Or 12 grilled cheese sandwiches at once, or 6-8 pancakes at a time (depending on how big I make them.) It's hard to believe that it actually works better than a griddle on a gas top like Wolf. I was afraid that those built in griddles would be a bear to clean. I'm sorry to hear that it's true.

Heat, that is another concern. We were using both ovens tonight to make dinner and dessert. It's a "warm" night here, around 36 degrees outside, and the wood furnace is doing it's job well (We just put in a Lamppa Kuuma wood furnace in the basement-amazing!) Even with the ovens being electric and well insulated, the kitchen got *mighty* warm. Gas ovens and cooktop might just put me over the edge, hee-hee.

I think all this is showing me I'm more of an electric gal. An extra wall oven might be helpful. It's great to hear the Miele is working so well for you. Does it have 3 racks? How does it do with baking cookies? Can you put 3 trays in and have them come out evenly browned without alternating the trays partway through the bake time?

My daughter and I were talking about griddles after reading your post, and we agreed we might be better off just getting a second one to speed up the breakfast making process. It would be so much more economical than the big stove options.

So, that leaves me with the question of burners. DH and I thought "Simple. Let's get an induction burner and be done." Except now that I'm looking those up, it looks like they are made for relatively small pans. Those are the least used pans around here. Are there any induction burners that have a large pan capacity, say a 12" diameter? I have a giant cast iron skillet that I can't use on my stovetop because it's too big for the burner. I wish so much that I could use it, but the middle of it gets too hot while the edges stay too cool.

>>> Except now that I'm looking those up, it looks like they are made for relatively small pans . . . Are there any induction burners that have a large pan capacity, say a 12" diameter? I have a giant cast iron skillet that I can't use on my stovetop because it's too big for the burner. I wish so much that I could use it, but the middle of it gets too hot while the edges stay too cool. Is that a pan with a 12" diameter base (meaning it probably is 14" across the top and therefore sold as a 14-inch skillet) or is that a 12" cast iron fry pan (meaning that it has a 9 or 10-inch base)?

If we're talking a 12" pan with a 10" base, only Cooktek sells portable induction units with elements large enough to produce a 10" field. The Cookteks are durable commercial units, so they are big, heavy and expensive. The least expensive model that will run on a standard 120v kitchen outlet is the Cooktek "Heritage" MC1800. The least expensive price that I have seen was about $710 at katom.com. That kind of price makes an electric griddle look pretty attractive, no?

If we're talking about a 14" fry pan (or maybe one of those Lodge 17" monsters), then you'll wind up with same heat pattern problem that you described for your current range.

I've always cooked on gas until this house and that's my first choice for top of the stove. For large pans, the high output open burner range tops will generate the most power with the most even heat distribution. Then again, good cookware can improve the performance of a sealed burner range/rangetop or even an electric radiant like I currently have.

But I'd say if large diameter cookware is what's used most of the time then I'd be looking at the Blue Star or Wolf world.

No idea about induction. I've only seen it work in the Wolf showroom. I thought about switching out my radiant but we get power outages so I'm leaving it.

Like Christy, my friend Ivette has a Lacanche for about 10 years now. Loves it. The nice thing about that range is the big burner option. Those are sealed burners but plenty of power and owners are devoted. It's not just the looks. But one of the best cooks I've ever known lived in a house in France with a rather primitive kitchen and not much of a range at all. I'm not in the "appliance makes the cook" camp.

For quantity, 2 Presto griddles seems great. I usually use mine on top of the radiant, under the hood. Also do sausage patties on it and burgers. Used it like a comal for tortillas.

Also got the Oster steamer, another gem.

Re the Miele wall oven. Yes, it comes with 3 racks. I don't make cookies often; no patience. Have never done 3 racks at once, only 2. I automatically switch them in any oven but I bake on ancient steel cookie sheets. Trailrunner may know about cookies. She has the same oven.

I do a lot of bread, with a stone, and I can push it to a very high temperature with quick recovery. My cakes come out even. The bottom of my apple pie crusts get brown.

Newer wall ovens have pull out racks which are great.

The expensive Thermador 36" Freedom induction cooktop will heat your 17" pan. 48 magnetic inductors sense the pan size and shape. This shows it without the glass.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thermador Freedom

Dan, Thanks for the photo I had been wondering what they look like inside. The pan size issue has been huge for some of these cooktops.....hopefully this solution will trickle down into my price range in the near future.....

Many people love their induction ranges but I don't see how they satisfy 4 and 7--ease of servicing at home with readily available parts and lasting a lifetime.

Induction uses electronics. Electronics fail at a not insignificant rate.

I went with the Blue Star because I wanted a machine that had virtually no electronics--no self-clean to fry a board, no timers, no nothing. Just a lot of power and ease of cleaning. I gave up other things that would have been available in a range with all the gizmos. But my priority was no electronics because I really hate them but they are unavoidable in most instances. Here was one case where I could avoid them so I did.

So I think that you need to figure out which of your priorities are most important, then go and test a few ranges live.

We come forward a ways from the hearth cooking at Hampton Court and the cords of English oak needed for fuel. Nothing of gas valves and knobs to fail at a comparably significant rate there. And so it goes another step forward with induction. Where is that simple roasting spit nowadays?

Yes, I mean a 12" diameter base on the cast iron skillet; it's 15" across the top. (I found it in the camping section at Wal Mart a while back. I was so excited to get it. We even took it camping one time and cooked over the open fire on it. It's sat waiting to fit on a burner ever since its failed attempt on our biggest electric burner.)

Your friend Ivette, is that Pirula? I've loved her kitchen from afar for a long while now. : ) That's a beautiful pie, Rococogurl. I'd take a slice right now, yum! I'm hoping we can get away with a more reasonably priced oven than a Miele, honestly. They do sound nice, but....I'm so...cheap. ack, I said it. I don't think there's a "cheap" solution to what we're trying to accomplish, though.

That's cool to see what the guts of the induction burner looks like, Dan. Thanks for posting the picture.

I'm coming to the same conclusion, Nycbluedevil. I don't think induction is going to meet our needs at this point. I love the idea of it, but I don't think it's the best fit for our crew.

DH and I had a good discussion tonight about what will fit our needs in the next decade or so. We laid out some of our biggest pans (which seem to shrink a little each year, LOL), and seeing them all together helped us come to the conclusion that we need a gas cooktop in order to fit everything nicely. Either a 36" or a 48" most likely will work for us. I'm relieved to have that part of the decision made (Yes to gas. No to induction. No to 2 30" "regular" stoves side by side.)

Now, we need to figure out whether to go for an all-in-one unit, or a rangetop with separate wall ovens. I'm still not clear on which way to go. These are the factors I see:

+ for all-in-one units-
-more counter and upper cabinet space available
-less (or no?) electronics to break down
-easy transfer of food stuffs from cooking surface to oven (For example, I made cornbread today. I preheated the cast iron skillets on the stove top, poured the batter into the hot skillets, then baked them.)

+ for separate units
-Not having to cook over hot ovens
-Raised ovens are good for aging backs
-Good storage for pots and pans under the cooktop
-Easier to have division of labor: A cooker and a baker working at the same time without getting in each other's way as much as with an all in one.

I'm probably missing a few points. Any opinions? 36" or 48"? All in one or 2 separate units? An all in one AND a separate oven? This is a tougher decision than I expected, sheesh. : P

Here is a link that might be useful: Pirula's Kitchen

LOL, Dan. I think maybe that's our former neighbor turning the spit, there. ; ) He roasted a pig in his back yard like that a few summers ago. Amazing. (But, alas, no, I don't want to cook like that every day, ha-ha.)

>>>Now, we need to figure out whether to go for an all-in-one unit, or a rangetop with separate wall ovens.An "all-in-one" is usually referred to as a "range" or a "stove" but, for some folks, it is always called "an oven" even though it has the cooktop. Don't know if this a regional thing or what. Vocabulary can drive a person batty, eh?

Anyway, three of additional thoughts about your choices.

Ergonomics/convenience: if have the space, you get a 48" or 36" cooktop and separate wall-ovens, you can put the wall ovens to the sides. You take those big skillets of cornbread and swing them to the side and right into an oven.

Less/no electronics: a mixed bag. Generally, electric wall ovens will pump less heat into kitchens than gas ovens. With multiple separate devices, the failure of electronics in one is not going to take down your other cooking appliances. Less/no electronics often means no self-cleaning ovens.
Ventillation: hoods for a 48" cooktop will be a significantly greater expense than for a 36" one. Also, think about make-up air (MUA) systems.

Hi laughable

I responded on your other thread about the ovens on the 48" Blue Star range.

On the 36" vs 48" and the range vs rangetop (NOT cooktop--they are not the same thing--you clearly would be needing a rangetop if you go with separate wall ovens), I went through the same thought process. There are many threads discussing the advantages and disadvantages of a range vs a rangetop with separate wall ovens. You should read them. Dan discussed some of them above.

I was pining for an eight burner range so that I could get six burners plus a grill but decided that the 48" was too much real estate to take up in my small kitchen. The range vs range top issue ended up being pretty easy for me. I ended up with a Miele speed oven, which ended up being a perfect solution for me. Th speed oven is very compact--only 24"--but is surprisingly roomy laterally. Because it is small, it heats really quickly. A number of others have the same combination--30" or 36" Blue Star range and Miele speed oven--and have remarked on the popularity of the combination. by the way, the combo that I have would give you more oven space than the 48" range. But I am surprised that you are thinking about the 36". Have you decided that you don't need eight burners? In truth, even when cooking complicated meals, I rarely use all of my four burners (I opted for a grill instead of the two extra burners).

I don't think that the cooking in front of a hot oven is an issue at all. This past weekend--before I baked the cake I mentioned on the other thread--I grilled veal chops that I finished in a 400 degree oven. I completely preheated the oven before I started grilling. I didn't even feel the oven heat at all. Yes, the range does heat up the kitchen, but I don't feel it particularly much when standing in front of the range.

I really like being able to pop a cast iron pan into the oven right below the cooking surface when I need to finish a dish in there. Sometimes, I will finish in the Miele but it is more convenient to use the range oven for this. Also, the oven in the range is directly below the hood, so I remove heat that way, I suppose.

Yes, laughable, Pirula's kitchen. She and her very talented DH built it themselves.

I'm out of the oven-suggestion arena because it's way too fraught. I love mine and throw it out there as a point of information.

But you might search Gary's threads for comments on his Electrolux.

Don't think you'd regret going with a gas cooktop/rangetop. My next one will likely be induction (because I'll be so altzy I'll need something that turns itself off) but gas is a great choice.

Yes, Jwvideo, I'm finding the vocabulary stumblesome (how's that for a new one?)

Space is definitely a part of this consideration. Our kitchen isn't ginormous: It's 13' x 14' 7.5", with 2 of the walls being partially unusable because of doorways and walkways. This is where my thinking (at the moment anyway) leads to a 48" range being the best choice for this space. We'd get 8 burners. We'd get 2 ovens, too, without the sacrifice of the space taken up by wall ovens. I'm not sure where to put wall ovens without compromising the layout in some way.That's probably a question for the kitchen forum.

I don't mind not having a self cleaning oven. I've read too many horror stories of oven failures after using the self clean function, so I would avoid using it even if I had an oven with self cleaning ability. And I still remember the awful smell of trying to use that feature in a townhouse oven in college. Yuck.

Ventilation is the mystery component to me. I'll probably need some help with that further down the line once we decide what to get. Make up air, oh my. I feel in over my head. Glub, glub.

Nycbluedevil, my current thought is similar to what I stated above: A 30" oven plus and 18" oven under the 48" cooktop might be the most efficient use of the space. I could go down to a 36" 6 burner stove, but...I'm not sure I'd utilize the 36" oven any better than I would a 30" oven if the 30" can hold full size baking sheets already. With the 36" I'd be increasing the preheat time for little benefit in the larger size.

I'm not sure that we'd use all 8 burners at once (doubtful, really), but I do think we'd benefit from the large space to spread out some bigger pans: giant stock pots, 15" skillets, etc. that might be crowded if they were sharing a 36" rangetop.

Does that sound like clear thinking?

Roco--
I'd love to know the ball park pricing on the Miele 30 and 36 ranges. Didn't know they were available.
To the OP, we are in a rural area, too. We were promised all sorts of things about the availability of tech support for certain appliances--but when the One Guy who was certified retired, no one else knew how to do anything. So, I agree with nycbluedevil--simple and non-electric rules. We have room for redundancy of systems here, and I have had to rely on that. My electric wall oven (Dacor 36" ) has had three motherboards--I am the Queen of the extended warranty. They usually go out immediately before I bake for Thanksgiving and fourteen house guests for five days. Like clockwork, if clocks ran during power outages. I rely on my low, low, low tech all gas 60" range with mega double ovens. 9.5 at all times? Is that about to be ten? I'd love a built in induction option module, but NOT, NOT, NOT as my primary cooktop. Do you have a generator with a transfer switch, by the way? Still have not seen an answer to Roco's long ago question about generators and induction life span, either. Okay, vent over.

It does. I just thought that you were craving a huge amount of cooking space on top of the range and really wanted a gazillion burners--hence my suggestion for the 60" when you originally were talking about two 30" ranges!

The 48" Blue Star is definitely a great choice for being efficient with your space. In my mind, there are three drawbacks to the 48" and if you can get over them then I would go that way. First, you get less oven space than with a 36" range oven and a second oven elsewhere. Second, you will lose 12" of upper cabinet space for the larger hood you will need on a 48". Third, I am not sure that the 18" oven performs as well as the bigger oven.

My consolation prize for not getting the 48" Blue Star was getting a second oven that is big enough to be very useful, while also doubling as a microwave. Also, my speed oven is installed under the counter in a 24" cabinet so I lost very little cabinet space in getting my second oven. And the speed oven is electric, so I have one gas and one electric. Finally, I would tell you that I use my speed oven more than my big oven, but again, it's just the two of us now.

You have a dilemma because you really need that cooking real estate up top. I think your two choices are the 48" or the solution that I came up with because it doesn't sound like a 36" rangetop and double ovens will work for you due to the wall cabinet space you will give up for the double ovens. But that means that you really need to figure out two things. First, how much do people like their small oven in the 48" and second, will those two ovens in the 48" meet your needs? It really sounds to me like you need a lot of oven space and that you need two workhorse ovens. I am not sure if the 18" oven will meet that description.

I have linked (hopefully) a thread that discusses the small oven. I bet there are others as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: 48

You all have been so helpful, thank you. : )

@kitchendetective - They have the strangest, most clueless marketing. Here's a link to one of the ranges. I was invited to the launch but couldn't go so I haven't seen them yet. Need to go into town for that.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Gas Range

after lots of researching on the internet I settled for the American Range with four burners and grill. It got the least negative reviews, had the hottest 25k burners, and made in So. Calif. After in installing it looks gorgeous. I am a professional chef and it looks like it came out of a restaurant kitchen. I called American Range before making the purchase, $3000, and they immediately picked up the phone, directed me to the right department and answered my questions. Okay so hows customer service once it was installed. I had an issue with the grill not firing up. Again after calling American Range customer support , got through after a few rings. The Tech guy walked me through some trouble shooting but since we could not fix it, ordered a service call under warranty without hesitation. My contractor was able to tweek the air flow to the grill burner which seemed to fix the ignition issue so I cancelled the service call. It is comforting to know American Range is willing to stand by there warranty which by the way, is three years. I highly recommend you checking our this company

That sounds fantastic, Litano. I hope that you will come back and give progress reports on your new baby. As a home baker, I'd be especially interested to hear how the oven works for you in addition to how the burners work.

We looked at the American Range at an appliance store, but there was no live demo. The grates looked super high above the burners, so I'd also be interested to hear how efficiently it heats your pans.

I just sprung for a Miele cooktop and separate wall ovens, but if it doesn't work out (pray it won't be so!) we'll be back in the hunt again. And there are many others out there searching too, so I do hope you'll do a thread all about yours so that your valuable first hand experience doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

We have the BS 48 with 8 burners since 2008. The only regret is that we did not opt for the 6 inch so as to provide more space between the 8 burners. Otherwise, a stellar performer. No problems and no service calls to date.