If you get the Freedom model you won't need to slide anything as the unit has no discrete burners.

Sounds to me like too much reading and not enough first hand experience with smoothtops. Not that its a bad thing, but internet research can hype fears and concerns.

So, maybe I should inflict some more reading on you? If you have not already seen these threads, you will find they discuss your concerns enough to counteract some of the speculations that may have led to your concerns.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0820461615426.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg1020000317768.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0423131028659.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg071537269685.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0714163732247.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0616543228392.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg07013949547.html

I do not have a Thermador unit (and have not used one), but I've never had to baby or tiptoe around any other induction unit that I've used.

LC is smooth on the bottom. The business about "cast iron" is usually referring to rough surface uncoated cast iron. And most smoothtop manuals tell you not to use it because it "can" scratch the surface. But, with induction, you can use silcon or parchment paper or paper towels for those times when you worry about scratching. That will be fine for most cooking except high heat searing and wokking (heating pans above 451F which is a hotter than you want for most cooking.)

AFAIK, only Viking seems to think cast iron of any kind is bad for induction. The manual for the Viking induction range absolutely (and idiotically) forbids any use of any cast iron because cast iron retains heat which supposedly somehow might possibly in some paranoid silliness be thought to possibly cause some unpsecified "damage." Viking induction range owners such as Luv2putt have demonstrated the falsity of that bit of CYA foolishness, but the warning nonetheless remains in the manual. Everyt other induction stove maker and seller says you can use cast iron pans. There are literally dozens of threads here and many more in cooking forums across the web about using cast-iron pans on induction.

The ceram surface is very tough. So, "put a cookware down on the induction cooktop very gently and carefully?" Nah. But, you don't want to drop that big LC "oven" a couple feet down onto the cooktop. Beyond that, the ceramic surface is not a glass coffee-table.

Moving a hot pan to another cold burner? (Say, you've just finished using that big burner and want to start another large pot on that burner so you move the first pan to a cold burner.) Never been a problem in my experience. You certainly can do this with radiant electric burners, too, and people do it every day.

Ceram-cooktop surfaces are supposed to be able to withstand thermal shock of temperature differentials of over 750F. Unless you are into the most gonzo "searing" exhibitions, you'll never get a pan anywhere near that hot. (You will be burning off all the seasoning of a plain cast iron pan by the time you get it to 600F.) You can take hot cookie sheets and broil-pans out of the oven and put them on most ceram tops including those for induction. Of course, if you have a touchpad control surface, you do want to avoid putting the hot pan or sheet down on the control surface.

What you do want to avoid is sliding pans over spilled sugar or salt, but the induction cooktops stay cool enough that its easy to wipe that stuff away immediately.

I've used Lodge cast iron on an induction cooktop for 7 years. There are scratches on the stainless steel rim, but not on the glass. I just moved into a house with a brand new induction cooktop because I'm sticking with induction. I will say that the new cooktop did not recognize my smallest moka pot, so I pitched the little guy. My slightly larger pot is fine. The new unit has a rough, dimpled surface and pots do not slide easily, but that works fine for me.

I have a Thermador induction cooktop and use both bare and enamelled cast iron on it regularly. So far I can't see any scratches. I am fairly careful not to let a heavy pot drop onto the surface. I also avoid sliding a pot from one spot to another when I remember, but I have done it when I'm in a hurry.

I've had the cooktop for 8 months so far, and love it.

Cheryl

We bought our induction cooktop (Kenmore Elite clone of Electrolux Icon) at the end of 2007. It spent 2 years during our kitchen reno in the Family room wired to a nearby breaker box. After that I installed it into the kitchen where it happily continues to operate.

There are no scratches on the Ceran. However, silicon pads or sheets are always used.

If relatively vast funds are used to construct a nice looking and functional kitchen, one wants the content to remain looking new. Further, there is significant potential cost if one has to install a new different cooktop into the location of an existing stone counter cut-out that may be too large or too small. So taking extra steps to protect the cooktop is in my view worth the time.

kas

The Devil gives a damned man two choices: enter one cave with a sign that says "Burn in agony forever" or the other cave with a sign "Live in your home during your kitchen reno." The man protests. The Devil smiles.

Kaseki - I haven't tried cooking through a silicon pad yet - does it effect the cooking time?

Hello JWViedo, thank you so much for the links you provided. DH and I read every single one of them.

Many thanks to all of you (including authors of the postings in the links JWViedo provided) for the inputs and advices, they are very informative and helpful.

As the result, DH and I went through our Pros-Cons analysis. We have hot weather 2/3 of the year, we have a gas BBQ station in our backyard, we prefer less cleaning around the kitchen, we both like cook and are willing to try new tools and techniques, we decided that induction would be a better choice.

We found out that other than Le Creuset, all of our pots and pans are not induction usable. It is painful since we spent a bundle on these professional high quality cookware, most of them were brought back home from France....well, we will have to shop for new cookware.

This afternoon we visited appliance stores again. We noticed for a 36 inches induction cooktop Miele's is $300.00 more than Thermador's. Does any one have any opinion about these two brands? we would appreciate if you have any insights on any other brands as well.

Brand of induction seems relatively unimportant, in terms of reliability. People like induction. The differences are in various features, which you may want or like or find intolerable. Of course, there are threads on this topic, here. For example, some prefer to have a timer turn off the hob when done; this is very convenient for cooking rice. Others could care less. It will come down to specific preferences, and the ways that you cook.

There were some posts a while back about the Miele controls being overly sensitive -- they turned off a hob if water splashed near the controls. I've no idea if this issue has been resolved, but it is worth looking into.

Trying out a few different induction brands in stores would be wonderful, if you're able to do this. You really need to get the feel of cooking on some different models with differing features, to see what you like.

My kitchen hasn't even been demolished yet, but I bought a Bosch induction cooktop based largely on the ability to go directly to the heat level you want with numbered controls, rather than pressing + or - repeatedly to get to the right heat.

Now, I obviously haven't installed or used the cooktop yet, but thought I would throw this out for your consideration. DH and I both knew that the tap, tap, tap to get to the right heat level would bother us.

a2gemini: The induction field passes through the silicon pad as if it were air. It would do the same for a sheet of veneer, thin plastic, bamboo, and generally anything non-conductive. However, whatever is in contact with the pan bottom has to be able to withstand the temperature of the pan bottom. Being cleanable is also useful, as is being inflammable. Availability is necessary. Silicon rubber meets these criteria.

The most convenient sources for cooks are manufacturers of silicon sheets for cookie baking. The sheets can be used whole or cut into smaller shapes, such as circles or squares. Use of small shapes leaves the hob circles visible or only interrupted, and reduces the amount of Ceram that is back heated by conduction through the silicon rubber. Radiant heating is still present. Still, hardly anything cooks on the slightly hot Ceram, further simplifying cleanup, already far easier than gas. Small shapes should be appropriate to support the weight of the pan being used. I have cut out five sets of three circles in four sizes that have so far proved suitable for a range of pan sizes.

Teflon sheet is an alternative to silicon rubber, but generally requires purchase from a plastics supplier. It is also likely to be more expensive. I have some I haven't tried yet for this purpose, but plan to do so for experimental hot searing on cast iron where the silicon rubber might prove to be at its thermal limit.

kas

Also, just to clarify, although you may choose to use silicon pads to protect the cooktop, they are absolutely NOT essential. My seven year old cooktop has never been protected that way and has had no scratching appear on the glass. The stainless frame does have scratches. It would probably make more sense to attach your silicon to any stainless you might have since it is far softer than the Ceran glass. I've seared at high heat, carmelized sugar, cooked jam, and boiling water bath canned on the thing without a problem.

Thanks - I might try this.
Anyone try parchment paper?

Just to be clear, the Miele cooktop does NOT require one to "tap tap tap" to get to the correct setting. Simply holding a finger on the control causes it to scroll up or down very quickly. I do not find it annoying. That said, I also liked the controls on the Bosch, but the hob sizes and layout on the Miele suited me better. My biggest hob is 11 inches, but I also have two 9 inch hobs, which are plenty big enough to handle my larger saucepan, the enameled cast iron post I use for rice, and my Kuhn Rikon pressure cookers. On some of the models I looked at, there was a mammoth hob in the center but the other hobs were smaller than I'd prefer for the pans I like to use. Think about how you cook, and how big you'd like your larger and smaller hobs to be.

I love the turn off timers on my Miele. When I was shopping, this feature was not as common as it is today, and it was a feature I knew I wanted. I use it all the time for rice, pasta, pressure cooking, vegetables, and other things that I want to turn off on their own so that they don't overcook. This feature is now on many models.

My glass is holding up well, despite very heavy use. As noted above, salt or sugar will scratch it if you slide a pan over it, but clearing it away is no trouble. I don't abuse it or bang things around on it, but I also don't baby it. It's pretty tough stuff. As to using parchment or silicone, I used parchment a few times in the beginning, and it was fun as sort of a novelty. After awhile, I found that cleanup was so easy that I stopped bothering with it. I do have one really old cast iron pan with a rough bottom, and for that I'll use some parchment as insurance. Everything else goes commando. :-)

Cj

Thank you again for all of your inputs, nothing is better than learning from owners' experience.

We are considering THERMADOR CIT365GB. The new Freedom model is great, but it is way too expensive.

Two more questions:

Two salespersons (in different appliance stores) said the stainless frame on induction cooktop adds protection to the edge of the glass. One other saleperson said it is only for aesthetic, in fact, he said it costs $100 -$150 more, and is a waste of money.

We saw a perfect 30" Thermador Induction cooktop floor model with significant markdown; we are not sure if it is too small. Has anyone regretted of getting a 36" instead, should have purchased a 30"?

May I hear your opinions?

This post was edited by azmom on Sun, Dec 30, 12 at 10:46

36 inches will provide more working space if you have the room and you can supply the typical 50-A circuit to power it. However, the hood has to grow, the flow rate has to increase, and the MUA capacity has to increase.

Because my Kenmore has a frame only on the front and back, and not the sides, glass protection would seem to not be critical, although I can see a higher risk of edge chipping at the front if that is the most likely direction for bringing a pan to the cooktop. Symmetry would then suggest adding counterpart trim to the back. In other kitchen layouts, one might consider the sides to be higher risk.

In any case, the cost of trim to the manufacturer is probably only dollars, not a hundred plus dollars, given manufacturing quantities sufficient to allow use of tooling. I would prefer no trim to simplify cleaning the trim edge, but it doesn't really bother me.

kas

I went with the 36 to have the larger Hob (Wolf) and the BAB (Big A Burner)- it has more power and the large burner doesn't share with other burners.

I thought the frame would protect the sides - but found out that you can get it without the frame but dropped into the counter - the problem is repairs down stream will cost more.

I am sure I would chip something if the glass was elevated.

I've had my GE profile 30" induction for over 4 years now. There are no visible scratches. I use Le Crueset, Lodge cast iron, and a few other kinds of cookware. I've never put anything under them when cooking. I am a very sloppy cook, and not very careful either. :) The glass edge is exposed (sitting on the countertop) but its never been a problem and there are no chips. I know the GE specs say it needs 12" of clearance below, but they also say you can install a GE wall oven under it too. So, that's what we did. I didn't want to lose 12". Overall, I adore induction and will never go back to gas.

Again, many thanks to all of you for the feedback in choosing induction cooktop size and trim. The hand holdings are immensely appreciated.

We have decided on the 36" for the extra burner. We don't want to have any knobs on the cooktop. DH is a klutz, having metal trim seems offers more protection (may be only psychologically). We have heard enough about our kids' bad experience waiting for parts for their Bosh products, we prefer American made products for maintenance and repair concerns. At this point, Theromodor is still the top consideration; we would download its owner's manual to further understand its features.

In our opinions, the most gorgeous cooktop is the ones made by Gaggenau. They are sleek and handsome and functional.
We think induction cooktop price would drop just as microwave ovens', remember a MW oven cost over $500.00 in the late 70s? DH said Gaggenau induction cooktop would be the cooktop for our next house. LOL!

Le Crueset cast irons are heavy; may I ask for any recommendation on induction cookware? We have been conditioned/spoiled using good cookware such as Bourgeat professional cookware and Le Crueset. They are indeed wonderful. Do we apply same criteria of selecting regular cookware as in selecting induction cookware?

azmom - look at the Thermador with mirror finish. Link to specs and details are below. The photo doesn't do justice to the cooktop which is stunning. We liked this a LOT, but the model we ended up buying was priced so well we couldn't not buy it.

Cheryl

Here is a link that might be useful: Thermador cooktop, mirror finish

Hi Cheryl,

No kidding, we saw the model in the store, it is stunning. Yet DH wants to have black, pattered background for "making dusts and scratches less noticeable". Guess between putting scratches on the metal trims and chipping the glass edges, the later is more important.

I tend to be careful with stuff. 98% of the items I own when broke down due to age, they still looked new and perfect. I suspect DH would put the first scratch on the cooktop in no time so that I could get over the anxiety sooner. LOL!

azmom - I'm glad you saw the model in person. Your thread asks about scratches which we haven't seen yet. But the standard black cooktop shows every smudge and residue. When you clean it, if you're not scrupulous about rinsing and wiping, you get a smear of soap residue which gives the black ceram a cloudy finish. I think the mirrored finish might not be as bad. That's just my opinion, but you know they say black appliances and black cars show dirt the fastest.

DH made me get extra insurance to cover our cooktop against accidental breakage. He's sure that one day he'll drop a heavy pot on it and shatter it into pieces. So I understand anxiety perfectly well!

Cheryl

My new IC is an Electrolux. It has a slightly rough, dimpled surface. It doesn't show streaks. My old IC, the Kenmore Elite, showed every streak unless polished up with glass cleaner. I already have a faint scratch on the stainless rim of the new unit!

Tried a silicon disk tonight with my Staub pan - it worked fine - not sure I will use it all of the time but with the heavier pans - gives you piece of mind. Thanks for giving me the encouragement to try this trick.
Cheryl - how did you get extra insurance?

a2 - Squaretrade offers a warranty which will cover against accidental breakage of the cooktop. We got it when we bought the Thermador, mainly for DH's peace of mind. It runs concurrently with the factory warranty which will not cover accidental breakage.

Cheryl

Thermador, Bosch and Gagganeau are all owned by Siemens-- a fine German company ; )

azmom...Seeing your nickname, I assume you're in Arizona, as we are. I shopped at Pacific Sales (in Best Buy), but ultimately bought our appliances through Spencers. I bought the Thermador mirror finish induction cooktop; it is absolutely stunning and has been an impressive performer. I have Le Creuset stainless cookware and haven't had any issues with scratching. Having said that, however, I do not plan to slam my cookware onto the surface of the cooktop to test its resilience. :-) Best wishes with your decisions.

Thanks Cheryl - I will check it out!

Hello Nlion -

Nice to hear from fellow Arizonan. Thank you so much for sharing your experience of using Mirror finish Thermador induction cooktop, as well as where you purchased it.

Cheryl, jxbrown,

What you said makes sense, mirror finish should be better for hiding dusts and scratches than black background.

Cheryl,

Thank you for the warranty information. We will definitely look into that.

@azmom said --- ". . . DH wants to have black, pattered background for "making dusts and scratches less noticeable". "

After living with our Thermador 30" induction with black glass finish for a couple months now, I can tell you that your DH needs to rethink this. (polite way of saying he's quite wrong-LOL) Ours shows every dog hair, finger print, speck of minerals from dried drops of water, etc. I never appreciated (because I never realized) how much 'yuck' the old stainless top Jenn-Air cooktop was camouflaging.

Another thing - We have the frameless cooktop and I now regret it. Our pop-up downdraft is installed at the head of the cooktop. I had my first spill-over this week while cooking rice on a back burner. I caught it in time, but had I not, the stuff would have gone right down the front of the downdraft unit, under the cooktop. Eeeew. At that moment, I regretted not having the frame to catch it. Hindsight is always 20/20. If you don't have the pop-up downdraft, but have overhead venting instead, it's not an issue.

Unless the cooktop is sealed into its cavity in the counter -- not recommended because then repair would be very difficult -- boil-overs from a pan near the edge will easily over-spill any likely frame and leak into the cabinetry below. (How do I know this?)

A possible solution is to set the cooktop on a thin gasket, such as 3M makes for stainless trim on automobiles. I used this material under the edge of my Cooktek wok induction hob, but not under the edge of our Kenmore Elite main cooktop. The Elite's ventilation operates through the edges. At the time of installation I must have had concerns with blockage. I'll re-evaluate this before DW's next leakage test, but I think a spill can get into the vent holes even if blocked from the cabinet.

The lesson to be learned (and often relearned) is to not walk away from an induction cooktop unless one is very certain that over the long term no overheating will occur with the present control settings.

kas

@kaseki - Thank you for your input. I feel better about the frameless edge. The Miele frame (that I saw) is very small, barely discernable, and a large spillover could likely pour over it, too, and into a pop-up downdraft.

I wondered about a gasket, because the our cooktop's glass has roughly 1/8" clearance over the countertop. Anything could get under and down there.

Highly unlikely there would be any long term overheating in this kitchen. LOL I cook simple stuff and rarely leave the cooktop for more than a few minutes. No canning, wok cooking, searing, or anything like that.

Cavimum, Thank you for the advice. I showed DH your comments! Yeah!! LOL! We have such a dusty environment, the idea of getting a mirror finish cooktop looks better and better.

Since we will have a range hood instead of a pop up vent, glad it is one less thing to worry.

IMHO, having spillover on an induction cooktop will be better than on gas burners. It is one of the reasons we take the induction route. We thought about getting a Blue Star range, as soon as I saw the open burners, the image of spilled overheated milk draped on the burners came to mind. A little uncanny, but enough to scare off the idea.

I have the Wolf two burner cooktop. Although I am not a fan of Wolf, I would recommend an induction cooktop. I also have the Wolf Downdraft, and have never had an issue will spillovers getting into the downdraft.

I always have had gas and loved it until I started using induction glass. I am in Europe and on a Flex Siemens. It is amazing. Has a little hmm but other than that, I'm going to build a kitchen in Florida and have settled on a Bosch. It has a flex side for using those large creuset. casseroles for roasting on the stove top. My induction here is 2 years old. I slide old cast iron and creuset pans all the time. Use parchment or a paper towel if you are worried.

Unfortunately I cracked my 15 year old white ceran glass conventional electric (with coils under the glass) cooktop by pushing too hard while I was browning meat that was partially frozen in a Calphalon tri-ply pan. The crack ultimately disabled three burners because it spread through the glass. I believe that there was an installation oversight that contributed to the cracking-the rubber/foam trim that goes under the edge of a cooktop and cushions it against the countertop was never installed, so there was reduced "shock" absorbtion. We replaced that cooktop with an induction range about a month ago. Needless to say, I will not treat this range like the cooktop. What an expensive mistake!

Update: About 5 years ago, my half-framed Kenmore was replaced with a frame-less Frigidaire Gallery model. As of this writing, the new unit has acquired a tiny chip on one corner (glass is tapered at the front and back edges).