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Trusting Load Calc from a Seller

15 years ago

I need to replace my original AM STD 2.5t 10SEER G/E central air (roof-mounted cabinet) for a 1989 track home in hot central California (model#/SN worn off since placard was mounted externally). A local seller performed a free load calc and I helped with the measurements and attempted to verify figures being entered. But alas I couldn't hawk him enough and don't know where in the software they might fudge, to oversell me. At the end, he said it was bordering on suggesting a 4ton unit! But when I called BS, he said a 3.5ton should do. Before this, I didn't specifically distrust the seller, but neither did I have trustworthy history other than a BBB rating of B- (6 resolved complaints over last 36 months). They are categorized as construction and plumbing.

My questions:

Does the below quote seem reasonable for a 3.5ton?

How much can I trust the Load Calc results, done by a seller not by "my" contractor, to truly require 3.5ton. Should I just get quotes for 2.5?

Quote:

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I have a 6 month old quote for $8,000 to install:

AM STD 2YCC3042A1064A "PKG G/E 3.5T 51K 13SR 1PH R22"

AM STD 1F97-1271 "W/R STAT BLUE 1H/1C"

They pushed hard on their 2nd quote for $10.5k to upgrade to the 4YCY4042B1096A "76K 14SR 1PH 410". That ain't happening.

Interpreting Load Calc

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I am dumbfounded examining how the load calc suggests 4ton to replace a 2.5ton that has worked flawlessly to cool and heat a single level 1063 ft2 living space (~1400 ttl). Nothing in the home is unusual per say, rooms are std 8' ceilings except the main living room is vaulted. It's a cookie cutter small 3BR/2B home, geeze.

Target Smr/Wtr temps seem appropriate:

101/32 outdoor, 75/50 indoor, with 3 relative humidity factor.

Summary Results:

BTU-Output/Ttl_Heating_Load=20872,

Total_Cooling_Load=31473,

Adjusted_Unit_Load=39214.

I guess the fudge areas may reside along the estimations for the lines labeled (with BTU smr/wtr values in parenthesis):

Infiltration (1422/0),

Misc. Int Loss/Gain (6000/4455),

Duct Gain 30%/Loss 20% at values (7239/3479).

This was before I had a leak test done which proved there was very little loss of conditioned air.

Thanks in Advance!







If you want background info, here it is.

Background:

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I've done everything a basic DIY'er can do to improve the living envelope. Including attic insulation to min R-20 everywhere and up to R35 above rooms, a quality radiant barrier above the insulation on attic floor and against interior walls, RB wrap along the entirety of all flex ducting and plenum, sealing every joint/connection along the ducting, and sealing gaps around exhaust fans, registers, outlets, etc. Every year I walk the home with a laser temp gun to find hot/cold spots along wall and ceilings. Not to mention the easy stuff (weather stripping, reflective window films, solar screen treatments, blah blah). This all started once my summer bill hit almost $500. I have appropriate expectations, understanding we use more than the avg home (computers and TV in every room and we work from home) and CA rates are very high also. I monitor my electricity closely with a meter in the panel and logging software to my computer and verify against PG&E Smart-meter software. Only the radiant barrier made any significant difference in reducing my utility bills.

Leak Test and Energy Audit:

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I had the city test the envelope with the blower/door test and thermal imaging. The contractor was shocked and stated this was by far the most well sealed home he has ever seen in the 15 yrs he has been in the industry. His final report only included 4 leaks, 2 were restroom exhaust dampers not closing fully, one edge of attic door stripping, and a very small wear in weather stripping on back door. He didn't check the A/C unit, but the overall recommendation was to install Solar PV @ 2.0kw ac rating and install a whole house fan to "sync up" the temps in the morn/eve (b/c I reported the radiant barrier certainly keeps internally created warmth IN, as well as out, and it's noticeable at those two times). He added other than a solar attic fan when I replace my roof, I have already gone above and beyond optimizing the home, therefore going Solar.

On a side note, I know the home is sealed well when I have trouble igniting wood in my fireplace (pre-fab zero-clearance) until I crack a window.

Comments (2)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I think most everyone gets load calcs from a seller. Very few people are getting independent load calcs. That being said, if your system is working fine, then of course you should go with the same size. Going up that much in size will mean your ductwork will have to be redone - more returns etc.

    Obviously there is a lot of wiggle room and just doing solar screens can make a big difference. Infiltration is also a big wiggle area but you now know your leak rate which puts you ahead of most people.

    With a $500 electric bill, you probably should be going Seer 15 or greater - payback is far quicker than with solar panels. I really think you justify Seer 18 in a lot of climates before doing solar. You also justify low power use computers which can make a big difference if you use them for many hours a day. With CA peak rates, I have a computer (nothing special) that would cost $250 a year to run 8 hrs a day and another that would cost $75.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks David,

    I certainly do not want to re-do ducting. Our current 2.5 system already has an undersized return as those filters warp the negative pressure suction is so bad. Zippyhvac in this forum advised me earlier about increasing it here or using the 4" pleated filters.

    I've searched the energy audit report and don't have a specified "leak rate" just his comments and the few thermal images.

    I hear you on payback using SEER 15+, our area certainly would benefit. Since I've had RB installed, the rates are more under control but I'm still at $3400+ annual electric costs (the gas portion is nearly negligible, ~200ish/yr). It's that 4th tier rate of $.50 per KWh (yes 50 cents PER kwh) for the highest tier of usage. I can tell how much each workstation uses by using those Kill-a-Watt monitors, the panel system, and I have my own mini-meters on several individual circuits.

    I'll get quotes on 2.5t replacements and post here to get feedback and allow others to see the rates. I'm hoping it won't be much over $4000 for the lowest end SEER13 but spending a few extra $K for higher SEER is recaptured fairly fast with our usage.

    The decision is how much $$$ to invest in AC vs Solar to help with both conditioning and the other usage. AC + Solar in addition to needing a new roof (leaked *last* year), fencing, painting and all the appliances in the home are showing age. That 20 year mark sure did hit us hard in this home. We do have quite a large savings in place though since we haven't invested much into the home before this. With the economy the way it is we've been hesitant to pull the trigger on anything major.

    Well looks like school loans it is, for the kid off the college next year.

    Here is a link that might be useful: My Attic and Return Duct