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Possible Heat Pump Problem

17 years ago

I have a 13 Seer Trane XR13. It is 2 1/2 years old. It is a 3.5 ton and I am in a one story 2100 square foot brick house. It seems to be fine for the most part, but I started to notice that my auxiliary heat came on when it was 35 degrees outside. I called my heating contractor, who came out twice and assured me both times that it was fine. The refrigerant was at the proper level and everything seemed fine. I checked my output air temperature from a register in the house that is closest to where my unit is and the air coming out was 78 degrees. The air going in at the intake was 68 degrees. The outside air temperature was 52 degrees. I used a digital oregon scientific thermometer for the readings. The duct work is insulated in the attic and I didn't see any leaks. If this is a problem, and the technician said there wasn't a problem with the refrigerant, is there any other possible reason? Thanks.

Comments (16)

  • 17 years ago

    You should be getting better performance out of that unit, in my opinion, at 52* from what you've described. At 35*, it's still a little early for auxiliary heat to come on unless you're making a temperature recovery. The R-22 XR13 can be low on heating output, but that doesn't explain the mere 12* temperature rise. I would call a different company because something doesn't sound right.

  • 17 years ago

    hp

    you need a different tech to check out system including the charge. also, ductwork should be checked but I really think this is a Trane problem. low supply temp is not normal at 52 deg outside temp.

    IMO

  • 17 years ago

    Here is technical data for my 3-ton 14 SEER Goodman heat pump:

    Outdoor-------Temp after
    air temp------indoor coil (based on 70F return)

    55F-----------103.7
    45F-----------99.1
    35F-----------95
    25F-----------91.6
    15F-----------88.1
    5F------------84.4

    Your temps should be similar.

    Make sure that your heat pump is not in, or coming out of, a defrost cycle when you are taking your temps.

    Good luck.

  • 17 years ago

    Thanks for the advice. I took it. I found a certified Trane contractor here in town and they are coming out today to look at my unit. It should be in the mid 40's outside when they arrive, so it should be good conditions to check the unit. I am hoping they find the problem and don't just give me the normal "heat pumps don't output hot air like typical gas systems do". I'll post back what they find as a reference.

  • 17 years ago

    The Trane technician came out today and said he found a leak in the indoor coil. He said it was still under warranty, so hopefully when it gets replaced the heat pump starts acting correctly. Does a slow leak in the indoor coil sound like that would cause the symptoms I had described? Thanks for your help.

  • 17 years ago

    I would get the number off the outdoor unit and the indoor coil and unit and post them here. There might be a different coil that is a better match that you can swap to and get more efficiency. I would also do it to make sure the replacement is as good or better than the previous one.

    If the coil was a crummy choice you could get lucky and be able to get a better match for the system. It could already be the best but it would be nice to know.

    Just another idea for you.

    Best of luck!

  • 17 years ago

    A freon leak can cause multiple performance issues.

  • 17 years ago

    I'll just say one thing. While a freon leak can cause performance issues such as improper delta T across the coil, your system still needs a full evaluation after the work is done to ensure proper performance. Temperatures, pressures, etc. need to be checked and recorded. You'll want to see if you have any ductwork leaks or other issues ductwork related that could have contributed to the problem. The problem is nowadays, people think they buy high efficiency systems and systems of a certain capacity, and results from tests show that the net efficiency and capacity is lower than expected.

  • 17 years ago

    Thanks again for all of the info. The indoor coil should be arriving in a few days. It was under warranty. I don't know the model numbers. The technician said he charged unit to hold up until the new coil gets here. It seems to be running much better. Before, without moving the thermostat, it would go to aux heat at or below 35 degrees. Now, it is handling 35 without a problem at all. Also, before when the weather outside was in the 50's, the register was blowing air at 78 degrees. Now, when the temp is 35 outside, it is blowing air at the register that is 87 degrees. Hopefully the new coil won't have a leak and it doesn't get a leak.

  • 17 years ago

    hp

    what exactly is your dealer replacing-just evap coil or complete air handler inside unit?

    what is your monetary responsibility? just the labor? have you been given a price?

    TD

  • 17 years ago

    The dealer is just replacing the indoor coil not the whole air handler. They just told me it was under warranty, but didn't tell me what the price of the coil was. They just told me it was going to be $400 labor to put it in. They said they were going to take the $75 off of that for the service call money I paid the other day, so it would only be $325 to have it replaced. It is now 23.0 degrees outside and the heat pump is turning on off and on without going to auxiliary heat. The air coming out of the register now at 23 degrees outside is 78.8.

  • 17 years ago

    hp

    that price sounds fair and reasonable. of course, the system will need to be recharged and that may be the biggest obstacle as recharging in the winter and at low temps can be problematic for all but the most experienced. tech will need his charts.

    23 degrees outside temp and a supply air temp of 78 without aux is poor. I hope your repair is scheduled for Monday.

    IMO
    Good Luck!

  • 17 years ago

    Just to follow up. Today the new indoor coil was installed. The same company installed it, however, it was a different crew than the crew that detected the low refrigerant and leak. They finished up and I took a reading from the same register that I have been using for weeks. It was 67 degrees outside, the air temp inside was 70. The air blowing out of the register in heat mode was 72. I told the crew that this was horrible. How could this heat my house when it is 35 degrees outside when the temperature rise was only 2 degrees when it was 67 degrees? They told me heat pumps are cooler than gas and that the air coming out was what they would expect from a heat pump. They told me to give it a few days for the refrigerant to even out. I waited for a few hours and the temperature blowing out of the register was now a few degrees cooler than the actual air temperature. I called the company and they sent out the original tech. He found the problem immediately. He said they over charged it causing the compressor to overheat and shutdown. He corrected it, and it is now working properly again. It is just scary what some of these techs will tell the consumer. I am glad I followed up and was lucky enough to get the original tech to come out and troubleshoot. Thanks for all of the help in this forum.

  • 17 years ago

    Complete BS what they were telling you. Glad the problem seems to be fixed now.

  • 17 years ago

    They should not have been charging the unit in heat mode. Not at 67* outside. That could have had something to do with it, along with the apparent overcharge. 67* is well within A/C range for charging with proper sub-cooling/superheat.

  • 17 years ago

    The temperature rise across you heat exchanger is proportional to the BTU delivery and the cubic feet per minute air flow.

    My HP in Stage I, is rated about 20,000 BTUs and the air flow is spec'ed at 1000 CFM. I get about a 16-18 degree rise. In Stage II the unit is rated at 35,000 BTUs and the air flow is rated at 1400 CFM. In any case, if the house is at 65, I expect to measure, at the air handler, not a register in the floor, 80+ degrees in Stage I and 85- degrees in Stage II, that's about what I get. The point is most (all) HP are most efficient if there is a lot of air flowing over the heat exchanger, i.e., the temperature of the exchanger is held down by the volume of air flowing. The tech was right in that regard, but I'd never accept a rise of only a couple of degrees. My unit is rated at 4 tons, but that's it cooling capacity, not heating capacity. Looks more like a 3.5- ton heating. Still it is big enough that my auxiliary heat never comes on unless I'm running up the thermostat manually, e.g., in the morning after a 6 degree set back. I try to raise it 1 degree at a time to stop the central control from calling in auxiliary heat.