pl71

a couple of things.

the Mid Atlantic states up to NE area has just experienced the mother of all ice/snow storms. More than likely, this storm just overwhelmed this HP condenser's defrosting capability. Usually ice indicates a freon leak or faulty defrost function. If this was my decision, I would let the condenser defrost naturally as the weather warms up. A condenser never should be placed where it catches dripping water. I would cut the power to the condenser either at your breaker panel or perhaps an outside disconnect and run strictly from your emergency heat until weather moderates.

What brand/model is this condenser?

It appears you also have a Trane XLi condenser parked next to the iced up unit? If so, how has it performed in this weather? I would push away all the snow/ice formed at the base of these condensers. be careful though-you don't want to damage the cabinet base.

hope this helps and good luck!

IMO

just turn off the power and melt the ice with water. either bucket or get out the garden hose.

Thank you both! I put it on emergency heat for now. I'll try to defrost it some with water but until the snow off my porch roof is gone I'll just stick to the emergency heat. I really don't want to damage it. The roof shouldn't normally be dripping on the heat pumps, I think my gutter is leaking.

Yes, the other unit is a Trane XLi (impressive that you could tell from that photo). It's been doing great for me and has no ice at all. I had it installed this past spring and went with that model to get the tax credit and based on recommendations from this board. It seems better designed for the snow, since the top is solid.

Thanks again!

carol and pl

your pictures are a good advertisement for choo-choo HPs.

BTW Carol, have you made a decision?

IMO

pl71

what brand/mdl is your iced HP condenser?

TD

tiger, I've not decided yet. I think if the heat pump works and does not freeze up again, I will wait for warmer weather, possibly even late summer or autumn.

I don't want to be without heat during winter. We have two Chihuahuas that cannot tolerate cold.

I still have to get information from the other residents who had a recent heat pump purchase. I'm curious to see the brand and size of the equipment.

carol

I definitely recommend you begin the process of laying some groundwork on a new system. Truly yours is living on borrowed time and a system this age will likely not give you any warning and will have a complete major failure at the most inconvenient time.

IMO

Tiger

I will work on it.
If the outdoor unit ceased to work, I should be able to run my emergency heat, right?

One of the residents had a new outdoor pump installed but used the heat strips and air handler that came with the house. His is also Trane.

Here is what he sent in an email:

We have a "3 ton" TRANE outside unit which was installed in 1992. The inside unit (2 1/2 ton) unit is as old as the house. I wouldn't replace either unit until it fails. Our replacement unit was the outside unit only as the interior blower unit was still functionin in a satisfactory manner. It has continued to function okay.
Most homes in the subdivision were equipped with 2 1/2 ton units which I consider undersized to handle the summer cooling needs. No heat pump systems will provide satisfactory heating below 32°. Thus, electrical heating strips are located in the inside unit. These electrical heating strips are automatically switched on when the differential temperature between the thermostat setting and the room temperature exceeds 3°.
I would chose a replacement unit to be either a Trane or a Carrier

The iced up unit is a Goodman, I'm not sure what model. It came with the house which was built in 2001). We had 2 of the Goodman HPs, the one that heats our downstairs died last winter and we replaced it with a Trane in the spring.

The iced up HP is now on emergency heat, hopefully the weather will improve soon. I took a look at it this morning, it still looks horrible. The Trane looks fine.

pl71

I thought so. Goodman is a POJ even in good weather. Quality pays off certainly in the storm you just experienced.

TD

No heat pump systems will provide satisfactory heating below 32°. Thus, electrical heating strips are located in the inside unit. These electrical heating strips are automatically switched on when the differential temperature between the thermostat setting and the room temperature exceeds 3°.

This individual does not understand heat pumps. The heat strips are located in the indoor air handler because that is where they must be in order to be in the air stream, not because heat pumps don't provide satisfactory performance below 32 degrees. They do, if the unit is properly installed and the dwelling is of tight construction and is well insulated.

In any event, there is no magic arbitrary number that defines a temperature below which a heat pump can't be used.

Do not rely on this person for advice.

"In any event, there is no magic arbitrary number that defines a temperature below which a heat pump can't be used."

All the air source heat pumps start to take a hit when the exterior coil hits 32F.

If the outside humidity is low they may still keep going for a few more degree, but if the humidity is high they frost up.

They then switch to AC mode with the heat strips on on the house so the system does not blow cold air until the outside unit heats up enough to defrost.

While it is theoretically possible to design an air source heat pump to operate at any outside temperature, the outside humidity starts causing more and more frost and ice problems.

"Goodman is a POJ even in good weather"

- Have you had ANY experience with recent Goodman heat pumps? Your bashing stinks of ignorance.

Maybe the defrost cycle is set to 90 minutes on the Goodman, which would be OK in any weather except the 2 blizzards that NorthEast experienced this week. Or maybe it's low on Freon.

How about posting your negative Goodman comments on HVAC-Talk, then take your beating like a man.

"No heat pump systems will provide satisfactory heating below 32°"

- My heat pump heats the house without the use of aux strips down to the mid 20's without the use of aux heat strips. And it's a Goodman. The key is good insulation/windows/doors that reduces the heat loss of the structure.

My Tempstar really started to drop in efficiency below freezing because the timed defrost sucks and is an inefficient way to go. My new Ruud with demand defrost will run down to 20 and very seldom uses even one stage of the heat strips unless it is really windy and below 20 the first stage of strips start to be utilized more and at 10 degrees or colder the heat pump is deactivated. Usually the days we have temps below 10 are few and far between and its only hours per day. This winter hasn't been that way but most are.

My heat strips have been locked out at anything above 30 degrees for over a month and it does just fine.

hey countryboy

I assume you have had snow/ice this winter. how has your demand defrost functioned in these weather conditions?

what about your electric bill?

what size is your HP? what size heat strip?

TD

Tiger,

We have had over 20 inches of snow, probably approaching 30 inches so far. We have had a bunch of both very wet sticky snow and dry blowing snow, much more than normal this year. Temperatures have been abnormally cold especially Decembers temps.

I have a Ruud 3 ton system with demand defrost and IAQ with 10kw of staged 20/80 heat strips.

RHLL-HM3617JA and
UPQL-036JEZ

Demand defrost is so much nicer than timed defrost and it used to be very evident when defrost mode was on as I did have the defrost on the 20% stage and it would blow quite a bit cooler air. When it was snowing or just really humid you could tell the defrost runs were more often than the days that weren't so humid or very cold. I cannot really tell now that defrost kicks in the 80% stage.

I wish I would have spent the extra money for the variable speed blower but the X-13 is a huge leap forward over the old motor, I think the air handler draws like 2 amps with just the heat pump and blower running and the tempstar would draw over 10 before I fixed the ductwork.

My usage since the snowy cold winter slam hit in December has been higher than last year but it has been a whole lot colder and more precip and also a newborn in the house so the temp has been set higher. I think 500KW higher than last year and the temp set at 74 instead of the 70-72 it was last year.

Old system 3.5 ton 20kw

Tempstar 13 Seer 8hspf
ICP air handler with piston orifice
Heat Strip 20kw staged 50/50
Honeywell visionpro stat with outdoor temp sensing but no humidity control
Generalaire humidifier

new system 3ton 10kw

Ruud 15.5 seer 10.5 hspf I think with txv and demand defrost
Ruud air handler with 10kw heat strips staged 20/80
Honeywell Visionpro IAQ t-stat with outdoor temp sensing
Generaire humidifier controlled now by stat.

I dropped the ball on the variable speed blower but it is a world of difference different in comfort and noise level than the Tempstar/ICP.

We had an Amana (owned by Goodman I believe) heat pump installed at my mother in law's house in 2015. We were gone for the month of January in 2017 and didn't find out until Feb that the unit was running on aux heat strips since early in January. Our Honeywell wifi thermostat does not indicate aux heat so there was no way to know there was a problem. We were first told by the installer that there was a manufacturing problem causing two copper lines that crossed and touched each other to wear a hole in one, releasing the freon. After several visits and repair work we were sent a bill for $600 along with an explaination that the problem, instead of a manufacturing defect, was in fact an "act of God", an ice storm, and not a manufacturing issue. Any thoughts?

I would want a detailed explanation/itemized for the work performed. Warranty should cover any parts, labor most likely your responsibility unless you had an extended warranty.

IMO