mazda

first, I do not subscribe to the idea that install is more important than brand. there are a lot of junk in the marketplace as far as heat pumps.

there are three important and equally weighted components to a successful install:

1.yes the dealer install and using a reliable, reputable dealer
2.good HVAC brand/mdl properly sized
3.and perhaps the most overlooked is a good ductwork system both supply and return properly sized, designed, and insulated.

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

I would look at Trane/AmStd,Rheem/Rudd,Carrier/Bryant.

I would not purchase a new HP system that did not have electronic demand defrost.

what size is your current heat strip?

I would not purchase a two stg for a small home/TH/condo.

IMO

tigerdunes, thank you for your quick reply.

I will note your list and use it as a basis for designing a system with several local contractors.

I do not know how to tell the size of the current heat strip. I can find the model # on the air handler tonight if that will help. The HP and AH are on 30/60 amp breakers if that helps any.

The duct work is what it is. 95% is behind drywall, so Im not sure what can be changed about that. We have a cold/hot area in the master bedroom - which is the farthest point away from the AH (second floor, opposite side of house).

Tiger - how does one interpret the AHRI specs you often post in your replys?

Thank you!
-a

As a follow-up...I received the AHRI from one of my contractors (the one I liked best).

Bryant Legacy - AHRI 3647372, outdoor 215bna024, indoor FV4CN(B,F)003
BTU cooling 23800
EER 12.5
Seer 16.00
HSPF 9.00
BTU Heat at 47* 24000
BTU Heat at 17* 14400
AprilAire Thermostat.

This included 10 years parts, labor, compressor. new line set, pad. No mention of coils at all.
Price: $8,700 all in (gross of tax credits).

Seems to me that this price for a Legacy is absurd. Am I wrong? Another contractor offered me a Bryant Evolution for $7,200 plus tax. But I have not met this guy yet, so could not evaluate his credentials.
-a

Didn't the tax credit expire?

@ David Cary - the big $1500 did, but now they have a much smaller $300 tax credit.
-a

mazda

the Bryant quoted is not even a top of line sgl stg HP. it does not have demand defrost. and finally the pricing is absurd. keep shopping.

3647372 Active Systems LEGACY 15 PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 215BNA024****A FV4CN(B,F)003 23800 12.50 16.00 24000 9.00 14400

IMO

1. a 2-stage HP would be overkill. And more money.
2. staging the backup strips is nice.
3. the sizing depends on what you have now, somewhat.
4. staging the power strips may require a new thermostat wire bundle.

mazda

what size heat strip was quoted on the Bryant and what size do you have now?

IMO

Thank you for your comments Tigerdunes and Weedmeister.

@Tiger...I dont know the size of the strips now, and Im not sure how to check. Im mechanically comfortable...so if it requires pulling a panel on the airhandler and getting you a serial number, I can do that tonight. If it just requires a model number off of the air handler tag, I can do that too.
-a

mazda

the heat strip size should be on the Bryant quote.

I would call an Am Standard dealer and get quote on Heritage 15 HP.

IMO

Tiger,
There is absolutely no mention of a heatstrip in the Bryant quote. The AirHandler model number listed is FV4CN(B,F)003. Does that possibly hint at a built in heat strip size?

Also, my question above was regarding trying to ascertain the size of the current heat strip in my old Trane.

mazda

mazda

the Bryant air handler mdl number provides no clue as to size of heat strip.

I would not bother opening your air handler.

A call to the Bryant dealer/sales person could probably clarify the size you have along with size quoted.

FYI, heat strips are sized by KW. each KW equals about 3400 BTUs of heat. I suspect you have a 7.5 or 10 KW heat strip.

existing heat strip size has been satisfactory?

IMO

Tigerdunes,

The Bryant dealer has not responded to me yet. Still waiting for an answer.

I got a very comprehensive Lennox quote last night.
AHRI 1275822
Outdoor - 14HPX-024-230
Indoor - CB27UH-024-230+TDR+TXV
SEER-15
EER-13
HSPF-9
Cooling-23600
Heating -14400,22400

New line set, new pad, premium Lennox programmable thermostat, permits, new outdoor electrical box, and new condensate pump.

All for - $7600.

He said this has the staged heat strips, but I'm not sure what the KWs are. Is this a decent offer?

Tiger, per your recomendation, I also reached out to the ONLY American Standard factory certified dealer in my area, and have not hear back yet.

As before, Thank you all again for your input...it is invaluable.
-a

mazda

the 14HPX lennox heat pump is low end. I would not have it for my home or recommend it. If Lennox HP, then the two ton XP14 with correct air handler would be a better choice.

ask Lennox dealer about size heat strip he quoted and if XP14 has demand or time/temp defrost.

$7600 is still a high price for a two ton system, especially for the 14HPX model.

Hopefully the AS dealer will respond.

IMO

Tigerdunes,
I received a reply to my heat strip question from the Lennox dealer.

He states: "I would have no idea how to size them for your home without knowing the size breaker and wire you have running to the unit. Most 2 ton units have 7,t kw. What size do you currently have? It should really make no difference since you will not use the heat except for defrost and then you would want at least 7.5 kw for the defrost cycle. Auxiliary heat almost never get used in a condo unless you are foolishly setting back. Available in 3,5, 7.5 and 10kw for 2.0 ton air handlers. The small 3.0 heaters are not staged, normally 50% stage one and 50% stage 2 until you get to 10KW. After that they have 3 stages. You should not even care about staging electric with a heat pump since that if what you heat with not electric. Do you use emergency heat? Why do you if you do?"

This dealer seems willing/eager to make a deal, but I am still concerned about the pricing. As a general question...I have to date received 4-5 quotes, and they are all very high, for seemingly entry level systems. For example, I received a quote on a Goodman SSZ140241A with AEPF313716A for $7,200 from one dealer. I dont understand why this is. Is there something about me that says "rip me off" or is it that its slow this time of year and they are trying to boost margins to make up for the slowness. Or is it that its 15deg. outside and they are charging a premium for working in the cold?
-a

Wait a minute: you're in Connecticut, it is one of the coldest/snowiest winters in recent history and this guy says you'll never use auxiliary heat?

mazda

the comment from the Lennox dealer's salesperson really is not worthy of a response. It either comes from ignorance or simply misstating the facts.

you have indicated that your breaker service capacity is tapped out. any good dealer can open your air handler and determine the size of your existing heat strip if he is familiar with basic heat pump systems. They will need this info to determine the size to replace. He should also check your breaker panel and verify how full it is. Usually, heat strip,air handler, and outside condenser are placed and wired on separate circuits.

IMO

I would get some phone quotes from some local independent installers. Tell them the equipment you want, and you want a general price over the phone. Some will say no, others will find the price of the equipment from their supplier and call you back and give you a general pirce.

You can try finding some HVAC guys who work for company's who are willing to do side work. Thats not uncommon. I would just verify they are licensed.

Most independent installers have access to major manufacturers off-brand equipment which is plenty good and less expensive then their main brand equipment. In most cases the off-brand equipment is just as good (if you compare apples to apples regarding there models).

You guys are awsome. Thank you for the suggestions.

@neohioheatpump - I have been doing that extact thing. The Lennox quote from above was a phone quote, as is the Bryant Evolution quote Im going to mention below...

@Tigerdunes - I thought the Lennox dealer's reply was strange as well. I beleive my current panel has one 30 and one 60 breaker 220v. I dont think the strips are on a seperate breaker, but I could be missremembering.

Ok, one more proposal....
Over the phone quote for a Bryant Evolution system:
Outdoor 285BNA024****A
Indoor FE4ANF002+UI
SEER 15.5
EER 12.5
HSPF 9
Cooling 23800
Heating 14500/24000

Ballpark phone quote $6500-$7000. This includes the Evolution Thermostat. I don't know the size of the heat strips. I will find out and make sure they are higher than 7.5kw and staged.

Is this a better value or am I still being overquoted?
-a