I can't believe that! I didn't think any of them would ever get out. As if Manson wasn't enough, you'd think going after the President would have clinched it.

I just don't understand it when I hear these sorts of things. Since when doesn't murder get life in prison or the death penalty? None of them should ever even come Up for parole. They've been running the Manson story on tv recently and they show the girls giggling away while being hauled in. Drugs or not, I can't fathom being brainwashed like that.

Will have to check out how old she is now. Hopefully too old and frail to do any harm. One of the other women wants to get a special release because she has brain cancer.

I see, she wasn't actually involved in the Sharon Tate slayings, just involved with Manson. There is some speculation that those weren't the only murders he conducted.

I still don't understand how someone like that would be let out. Nor when someone who has murdered is not given life in prison.

She was the lookout that night. But she didn't warn the victims or go for help. So, she was a participant even though she didn't kill with a weapon.

In addition, there were remains of many human bodies found on the ranch these people were living on. The evidence showed other murders took place there and if she was a resident, she probably did her share of killing. At any rate, what ever happened while she was living there wasn't enough to cause her to reject Manson and his teachings.

I can't believe the perpetrator of an assassination attempt would be granted parole. There's nothing in this news report that inspires much trust or hope in her: Fromme

News reports are saying she was released from a federal prison hospital for women with special medical or mental health needs. Wonder if she's terminally ill?

"News reports are saying she was released from a federal prison hospital for women with special medical or mental health needs. Wonder if she's terminally ill?"

Hopefully she is and the end is near. I have no tolerance for things such as this.

Squeaky Fromme was not involved in the Tate/LaBianca, etc. murders. I believe I recently read that Manson thought she was too young, or that could have been another woman who has denounced Manson and has a book coming out soon.

Fromme was arrested and tried for attempted murder (of President Ford). She was investigated but never charged with involvement with the Tate murders, but she was convicted of attempting to stop other members of MansonÂs "family" from testifying, as well as contempt of court when she refused to testify herself.

After the attempt to kill Ford, she became the first American to be sentenced under a special federal law concerning attempts on a US presidentÂs life, enacted after the 1963 assassination of John F. Kennedy.

However, she managed to escape from a female prison in Alderson, West Virginia, in 1987  to be closer to Manson, she said  prompting a huge search operation. She was eventually recaptured about two miles away and then sentenced to an additional 15 months in prison for the escape.

(Those last two paragraphs are from CNN). It's interesting that she did not have a bullet in the gun she used against Ford. She said she wanted to *get his attention*.

Charles Manson scares the h@ll out of me! He is evil. Not in any way to excuse his followers, it is said they were brainwashed. He went after young, lonely people. The young lady who has the book coming out had just run away from home when she was approached. She was 14.

I also read that most inmates in a Federal Prison which charges like Frommes would be paroled after 30 years, if the parole commission agreed. She did have some extra time added to her sentence because she escaped - apparently she thought Manson was ill and was trying to get to him. I cannot imagine the hold that man had over his followers. Sickening.

Some of his followers have turned away from him and some not. I certainly hope Squeaky has.

tina

Thank you tinam61 for being the voice of reason, presenting the true facts. All the facts are available in the many books and news stories and can be obtained by anyone. Fromme did not act as a "lookout".

There weren't any "bodies found at the Manson family ranch" either and they DID look. Preliminary testing came up inconclusive no matter which methods they used. They did excavate. I never read anything about them finding any bodies. If they did I would appreciate a link to the news stories.

There are interviews of Fromme from over the years, posted on YouTube. She seems nuts. It is sad that so many child stars and performers like Fromme, end up in such a bad state and do such crazy things.

I've always wondered about Charles Manson's children and how they are coping with life in the 21st century. There are three sons, from three different marriages that all ended in divorce. Two sons are named Charles and one is named Valentine.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/28/manson.ranch/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/09/manson.ranch/index.html

Here is a link that might be useful: News Article Ranch

I'm more incensed about Michael Vick than I am Squeaky.

Natal, why? Vick did his time, hopefully he learned a valuable lesson.

It's like I said in another topic, Saint Paul was a cold blooded murderer and now churches are named after him.

Just something to ponder... :)

Oakley, Squeaky did her time too ... 34 years. If anyone had the opportunity to "learn a valuable lesson" it would be her. Michael Vick served less than 2 years. Michael Vick was responsible for the deaths of many dogs. Squeaky was never convicted of killing anyone or anything.

Does it really matter whether Squeaky was not a lookout at the Tate murders, or that they did not find more bodies at that ranch? This group of people was into murdering people. They thought it was alright and they thought it was funny. Squeaky was a devote follower of Manson and his 'teachings,' holding vigil outside his prison and standing by him for I don't know how many years. She attempted to assassinate our President.

So who cares. She was given life in prison. Because she is not fit for society. Nor are the others.

Natal, it doesn't matter who served more time. The point is, people change. Whether Fromme or Vicks have changed, I don't know, but I believe in second chances.

The problem I have with ex-cons 'changing' is that, first of all, they are con men, and want to get out (or in, once they get out, and then they too often turn around to do the same old carp). But I also feel that they lost their rights when they decided do to some of those horrific crimes.

I also think that some behaviors are so socially ingrained (from a bad background) or basic to their personality that they might or will default in times of stress. Some people have a whole different set of survival skills (versus integrity, honesty, and hard work).

That's not to say that no one can change, people do change over time. But people like Manson and his disciples, or Vicks, don't fall in the 'normal' spectrum. It's not normal to want to or to watch or enjoy hurting or killing other living beings.

I certainly would never trust people like that again and would be frightened if they lived near me.

"The point is, people change."

Not necessarily. Some people change, some people do not. I think it depends on the severity of their crimes and their mind-set at the point in time they committed those crimes.

A young adult enters a convenience store with a plan to rob the cashier. The robber has a gun and points it at the cashier and asks for the money. He has no intention on using that gun, he just wants to scare the cashier to the point that they give up the money easily. Something goes terribly wrong and the robber panics and ends up shooting and killing the cashier. Terrible situation that happens more frequently than we hear about. The robber is found guilty and serves time in prison. While serving their time, they are a model prisoner and after their time is served, come before the parole board and are granted parole.

A group of cult followers commit murder. Not only do they commit murder for the sake of murder, but they plan that murder down to the last horrific detail, and afterwards rejoice in the heinous acts they've committed. They're convicted for the murders and spend their time in prison. While serving their time, they are model prisoners and after their time is served, come before the parole board and are granted parole.

So tell me, who would you rather have released back into society or living next door to you?

I am in total agreement with Natal and was grateful to see someone else shares the same perspective as I do. Micheal Vick surely got off easy and is only sorry because he got caught. As pointed out, with Squeaky, she was brainwashed and there wasn't even ammunition in the gun. And at least President Ford had LOTS of people to protect him so he probably would have walked away unharmed anyways. On the other hand that man acted on his own accord with a sound mind. Lord knows long or how many animals suffered at the hands of Michael Vick. They didn't have anyone to protect or look out for them....until possibly now and I hope people speak out and make it very clear to the Eagles team that this deal is just plain wrong.

I'm talking about Michael Vick. lol. The only thing I know is the girls in the cult were around 20 years old and high on drugs. Now I don't know if some of them are still pro-Manson, but if they're not, and they have turned their thinking around in prison, and come up for parole after 30 something years, then yeah, let them get out. I'm not talking about the one's who actually did the stabbing.

But like I said, Saint Paul was a cold blooded killer. Would he be let out of prison in these times? No.

The ONLY way to see if people have changed is to give them a second chance. Manson? Not on your life, he is still crazy.

I know very little about guns, but I believe I read that there were 4 bullets in the gun Fromme pointed at Reagan, but there were no bullets in the chamber.

Does that mean the gun was unloaded?

Mona, Squeaky tried to kill President Ford.

Certain political figures in this country are guilty of killing hundreds of thousands of people. Actually, I mean murdering hundreds of thousands of people.

Let Squeaky out. She's over 60 years old and doesn't threaten anyone. Any other person convicted of attempted murder would have been out decades ago.

mona, read Tinam61's post. Here's what she read on CNN

"(Those last two paragraphs are from CNN). It's interesting that she did not have a bullet in the gun she used against Ford. She said she wanted to *get his attention*. "

I'm surprised to hear how some feel everyone is entitled to a second chance, meaning even those involved in horrific crimes or lifestyles. I think the consequences could be too grave. I can understand wanting to forgive or understand all people, whatever they've done, but isolating them from society isn't just about punishment. It's also very much about protecting the rest of us.

Remember Richard Cooey? A sexual predator who had just been let out and what did he do? He abducted and molested 9-year-old Jessica Lundsford, burying her alive when he was done with her. She was found dead and he was spotted on surveillance chuckling away in a bar somewhere, not long after committing such a heinous act.

How many times must we read about and be disgusted by these repeat offenders, some with rap sheets a mile long, wondering how they ever got out. Where the warning signs were there but the system didn't protect us.

Some people are put together differently, and some have such horrible backgrounds, like Manson, that they can't be trusted to behave like relatively normal human beings. For me, it's not really about not being able to give someone a second chance or wanting someone to just rot in h*((. It's that they are in a league all their own. They've demonstrated enough of what they are capable of that it's too much of a risk. You just have to throw away the keys on some of these people. Or put them all on an island and let them live there.

Would you really be alright having people like Manson or his crew, or the likes of Cooey in your neighborhood? In your workplace?

I don't see how it's worth the potential for harm to innocent people. Like Jessica.

SH: This ISN'T about Manson. This is NOT about Cooey or anyone else.

Squeaky doesn't need to be in prison; Squeaky needs to be in a phychiatrists' office. (pardon my spelling).

Jason, why do you think she's so benign and not a threat to society? I don't understand that. What is your perception of her, or what facts, make you feel that way? Since she's been involved with and very loyal to the murderous Manson family and tried to assassinate a President, I don't see her as a candidate for the street. While I certainly don't know a lot about her, she Was sentenced to life in prison for a reason. If she's crazy, too, then there's the psychiatric prison. Crazy with tendencies towards violence, including previous acting out, is not a good combination.

Squirrel, she didn't kill anyone. She didn't molest anyone. She aimed a gun at President Ford, but there was no bullet in the chamber. Like Lukkiirish shared, she simply wanted to get his attention. She hung out with the wrong crowd when she was younger. She apparently has some psychological problems. So do a lot of people. She served 34 years for bad choices ... nothing more.

Squirrel; her sentence was four times longer than anyone else if they'd done the same thing. She isn't dangerous, and her association with a group of people is NOT any indication of anything; remember that Timothy McVeigh was a good Christian who attended church, and we don't raid churches. She's messed up. Nothing more, except that it's high-profile.

She needs help; not hate.

Well, joining the Manson family is quite a bit more than just bad choices or hanging with the wrong crowd. So is aiming a gun at the President. Someone said there Were bullets in the gun. That she *said she only wanted to get his attention is hardly an excuse and may not even be the truth. I don't know why anyone would give much credibility to that. People don't get life in prison for having a harmless nature or for doing nothing.

Well, she can go live in Your neighborhood ; ) I'd be skeered.

Four times longer than others who have done the same thing, as in aim at the President or aim at someone. They aren't weighted the same. Who was the other guy who shot at Reagan. He's been in psyciatric, too, and has been recently released, I believe.

I don't 'hate' her. She's a scarey type of person, and one who I would consider unpredictable. I don't know how you can be so sure that she isn't dangerous. How would you know something like that??? Even the psychiatric community is wrong on those things. And I don't see how her association and devotion to a group such as Manson's is irrelevant. Or how anyone can know what she did or didn't do there. It's what and who she believed in.

Now McVeigh was obviously not a good Christian. That he went to church is simply a curious oddity. That's a group which bad people sometimes hide behind, who are actually up to no good. Dennis Rader, BTK, is another fine church going example. Comparing raiding churches to murderous ranches is apples and oranges. One size will never fit all with those sorts of arguments.

Squirrel, if you don't believe what you read here, do some research. Just because someone is sentenced to prison doesn't mean they should be there. The American judicial system has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

Squirrel; I don't have a problem with her living in my neighborhood; as I said; she needs a shrink; not a jail cell. We (here in Michigan), are also very happily accepting the innocents from Gitmo.

Natal, Squeaky Fromme would be on the very low end of my research interests. Unless she were moving here. I think many people are alarmed. I see no reason to doubt the sentence she was given. They know far more about her and what was going on than anyone here on the outside does. And people can come out of prison worse than when they went in, so who knows. I was very surprised that Reagan's guy was also let out. Those types of things are not usually taken lightly, to say the least. Our current president already has death threats.

I don't think it matters why they do what they do, as far as their being isolated from society goes. Son of Sam was thought to be schizoid (though he looked pretty lucid at the time). Supposedly totally reformed. I'd be very afraid if he were let out, and I don't think he really deserves to be a free man after how he destroyed so many lives. Neither does he.

Would you really be alright having people like Manson or his crew, or the likes of Cooey in your neighborhood? In your workplace? No. I'd be scared too.

I certainly hope you don't think I was condoning Squeaky or saying she should be let out - I was simply trying to shed some light on her case - and some facts.

From what I read, she did have an ammo clip (is that the right term?), but no bullet in the chamber. So, if she pulled the trigger, nothing would come out. She could not hurt President Ford. If I am interpreting that right. If that's correct, it makes sense that she said she was trying to get his attention. We have no idea what was in Squeaky's mind or what her intention was.

I do think that she has been held longer than many others for the same charge - attempted murder. HOWEVER, I believe I also read that she did not request parole for many years, only till recently.

I, too believe that some people cannot and/or will not change. I also believe in seeing the victim's families side in all this. BUT, the big thing (for me) is she was charged for attempted murder. Thirty-four years is probably a long time to serve for that. We shouldn't look at her as a Manson follower, or consider that she might have been in any other crimes, because that's not what she was charged and sentenced for. Of course, that is easier said than done.

I look at the Manson followers like I would at any other cult. That's what it was. I cannot understand how anyone could be brainwashed and follow someone like that. Would I carve my forehead for someone???? Would I murder for someone???? Certainly not. But I've never been a run-away or on my own, etc. I cannot know or understand how a person so blindly follows someone so evil and thinks that he LOVES them. And apparently many loved him.

I'm glad I'm not on the parole board. I hope that she goes to some type half-way house and is closely monitored. I hope that the parole board and prison officials, etc. truly believe that she is fit for parole. Really, I've not seen much on that other than she has had *good behavior*.

But no, I would not want her living next door to me. She has served her time and I truly hope that she has changed, but how are we to know? I hope that she does not endanger anyone else.

tina

Tina, when I read your post, the first thing that came to my mind was Patty Hearst because their situations have some similarities.

Patty Hearst didn't aim a gun at a President. However, she was about the same age as Squeaky was when she was "kidnapped" by group that was also described as very violent. She also claimed to have been brainwashed and helped to hold up at least 1 bank, possibly more, (I don't recall). Unlike Squeaky, her Machine Guns were fully LOADED when she threatened people with them. Once caught, regardless of the claim that she was brainwashed, she was sent to prison too. She served her sentence which was obviously much lighter than Squeaky's as this happened long after Manson and she's been free for several years now and is married with kids and so on. I think under the circumstances, when only considering the crime that she was convicted for, Squeaky deserves a chance to be free.

In response to Squirrelhaven's question, would it matter to me if she were in my neighborhood? Believe it or not, NO. Like most people living in suburbs of large cities, we have people around here who are far more looney than a 60 year old woman who's served more than half of her life behind bars. I think when she sees how much this world has changed, her attentions will be focused on figuring out how to adjust and make sense of it all rather than how to do anyone any harm. LOL

Well, in spite of my feelings about her release, she's out of prison.

I can tell you that I don't want her living anywhere around us. If you think I'm a bad person for feeling this way or if you think I'm being too judgemental or unforgiving, then so be it.

If you could feel comfortable with her moving into your neighborhood, then perhaps you're a better person than I am.
I hope she moves to a place far, far from here.

Mona, how well do you know all of your neighbors? I know the ones north, south, east, and west of me and a few more scattered about, but ALL of them, no way. Don't let your guard down, lol.

Oh Mona, I hope you don't feel I was trying to imply that in my response! I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and certainly don't feel you are a bad person or anything else because you don't! You have every right to feel the way you do. I'm sure I'd feel differently if I was still raising my family. I think it's interesting though how everyone has such a different take on both this and the Mike Vick topic. You started some really intersting threads today!

Lukki, I wasn't directing my comment towards anyone in particular. It's just the way I feel. I wish I could be more compassionate towards this woman, but I just can't.

natal, you're right about not letting your guard down. We have a someone building a 20,000 sq ft mansion just behind us. He seemed like a nice person. We just saw his picture in the local paper. He was arrested for beating the "c**p" out of his 24 yr old daughter. When his wife called the police, he turned on her as well. Ya' just never know.

Thanks Mona, That's good to know, I couldn't tell because you talked about not wanting her near you and your family and so did I, but my feelings are a little different about it. I still don't think you're wrong for feeling what you feel.

Well, I understand what some people are saying and can respect your opinions but still don't agree or view things in the same way as you do. Just one of those agree to disagree sorts of things.