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neagirl

Small kitchen remodel - layout input please

15 years ago

Hi - I'm new to this forum. I've read through some of the posts and can see how knowledgable the members here are, so I would appreciate any input.

We are in the very beginning stages of planning for a kitchen remodel. Our kitchen space is pretty limited about 11x10. We've come up with a preliminary layout, but I would definitely appreciate any suggestions.

We pretty much need to keep water/gas in the same places due to our budget. Our current kitchen is the original in a 1915 craftsman and is not very functional - little storage, litte counter space (22" and 16" depth). We're looking to increase storage and funtionality within the limited constraints of the space.

Here's our current layout along with a few pictures (a better idea of the limitations we're working with!)





Here is what we have worked up so far for our future layout.



How does it look? Any suggestions?

One issue is the refrigerator against the wall, but I don't see any other solutions in the space we have. Also we are wanting to take down the wall on the left, and perhaps have a pony wall with a bar and stools. However, I'm not sure if there is enough space for that. There's a total of about 32 inches before we hit another door in the adjoining breakfast nook. The 32" would include 24" cabinets, would we also have room for a bar(possibly raised)?

Thank you so much for any help!

Comments (21)

  • 15 years ago

    I will need to look more in depth, but make sure you get a good price for the O'Keefe and Merrit if you sell it.

  • 15 years ago

    Generally I think you have the best layout you can achieve with the space and constraints. Good Job!

    If you want to get a bit more stool space at the pony wall, then consider going with a lower depth of counter there...say 15 or 18 inches instead of 24. You could use stacked upper cabinets as lowers.

  • 15 years ago

    If you're planning on taking down the wall to the left anyways, can you coopt the breakfast nook space for the kitchen? Can you decorate your dining room less formally and take daily meals in that room? That could open up a host of options.

  • 15 years ago

    One way to eek more storage space out of your kitchen is to install a pot rack above your window and over your sink. We are installing an Enclume hammered steel rolled end pot rack above our window. I had one in my previous house which had a very small kitchen. It was great getting the pots out of the cupboards and very convenient to wash one and hang it up to dry over the sink. I used it to hang other things like my large colander too.

  • 15 years ago

    Is anyone going to use the stools and pony wall?

    Our old kitchen had stools and a pony wall but no one used them.

  • 15 years ago

    Can you provide the rest of the measurements in addition to the overall wall lengths? (e.g., from the lower right corner to the lower left door.) on that bottom wall, you might want to consider swapping one of the cabinets on the bottom wall for a 12" cabinet so that you have a few more inches to swing the ref door. Or, is there room to move everything just a few inches closer to the door opening? (Then you could keep the 2 15" cabinets.)

    You might want to consider pulling the cabinets on that lower wall out just a few inches to gain a little more depth on your counters, since your counter space is rather limited on that wall. You wouldn't want them any deeper than the box of the refrigerator (so they don't interfere with door swing), but even gaining 2 inches of depth might be nice. And I would say yes to the upper cabinets on that wall where you have question marks, unless you don't need the storage. (And can't we always use more storage?)

    You mentioned a 2 level counter at the peninsula. Although I like my 2 level island, you might appreciate the broader expanse of keeping your peninsula one level for a larger work surface.

  • 15 years ago

    I am not a layout guru but my concern is the range area. I would like to see more storage and counter over there in that "L" and possibly the fridge moved to where you have the existing pantry wall now.I know I would love a peninsula or an island in my kitchen for the kids and company, but work and counter space is more important to me, but maybe Honeysuckle is right.

    Have you mentally inventoried your kitchen in regards to zones, function, and best use? Are you the only cook, or do you have helpers? Can you show us the flow and layout ofthat left pantry wall more and the breakfast nook
    ? At first I went crazy with my remodel, I wanted everything in every kitchen, but in the end I realized I "needed" to make small my existing kitchen the best it could be even if it meant no island or peninsula. Things I will gain far outweigh having room for company in the kitchen...just thoughts for ponder.

  • 15 years ago

    Thank you so much for your responses! You definitely gave me some new ideas to consider.

    palimpsest - The Okeefe and Merritt is really hard for us to part with, but it's so big and it's pink. I know they are worth a couple thousand, but I'm not sure what I could get for it.

    juliekcmo - The smaller depth is something we will consider if we decide to have a counter with stools there. I didn't even think about that option - thank you.

    laxsupermom - We would love to use the incoporate the breakfast nook as part of our kitchen, especially since we want to take the wall down anyway. It would give us about another 7 feet. However, the breakfast nook has three doors (space is 91x118) and windows lining two walls that start about 34" from the floor, so in someways, it provides a new set of challenges. Here's a picture:


    Our main issue with using that space, though, is the budget. We're trying to keep it down as much as possible, mostly because we have been renovating/restoring our craftsman since we moved in about 5 years ago. We've put a lot of money into it, but we're still slightly upside down on our value (we're in Los Angeles), so we're at the point where we don't want to keep putting too much money into the house.

    itallaboutthefood - Good idea - thanks!

    honeysucjlevine - That's what we're struggling with now. The reason we're considering the pony wall is for eat in space, but we would be able to fit a small table in the breakfast nook anyway. Our dining room is right off the kitchen too. So, I'm not sure how necessary or useful the pony wall and stools would be.

    chicagoans - From the lower right corner to the lower left door is 96". However, 1 foot of that is trim (it shows in the second picture) with a light switch. It's double trim, and we are removing one part of it, so about 6". So, all in all, about 90" of usable space on that wall. Thank you for the ideas - this wall is one of our biggest challenges. Also, good point about the two level peninsula. I think I need the counter space more.

  • 15 years ago

    If you completely take down the wall between the kitchen and nook, would you be able to fit the range between the sink and nook windows? That would get your range closer to the sink (for prep and pasta draining) and give you room for a little pantry by the fridge...and still have a counter on the side for a landing space. Maybe 30" pantry (by laundry) then fridge and then a 36" cabinet?

    Maybe a little bistro table with two chairs in the nook (if there's space)...it would help to see the dimensions and windows/door placement in that room, too.

    Your kitchen has a lot of potential :)

  • 15 years ago

    Just a bunch of questions and ideas:

    If the pink range works, I would try to keep it. If not maybe you could contact this company in Alta Loma, CA. They restore them. (Have no idea where this is compared to you).

    What about annexing the laundry room?

    You could also consider:

    Using Universal Access height counters for a counter run in the breakfast nook: They are 33" high, for people with disabilities. Many cabinet companies have these in their lines if you ask.

    You could build a slight ledge out a few inches from the window at sill height and put regular cabinets in front of the windows. It does potentially create a trough in front of the windows, but it leaves them intact.

    You could take one window, in the most likely location or with the worst view, install interior shutters over it, and drywall over the opening. You have preserved it for someone else while making the space work for you.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Antique Gas Stoves

  • 15 years ago

    Have you considered hanging cabinets from the ceiling over the ponywall counter (instead of the proposed upper cabinet over the corner cabinet)? These could open from both sides and have glass doors. Then you could store plates, glasses etc which would be accessible from both sides. But you would still have the opening to the breakfast area at the counter seating.

  • 15 years ago

    Here's a layout of the nook next to the kitchen:


    And a couple more pictures of the space.
    This shows the top left corner. Doorway to the kitchen on the left and door to dining room straight ahead:

    This is looking in from the dining room, wall to the right is the one to come down (kitchen on other side). The door goes to the patio:

    This last one is from the dining room. The doorway on the left goes into the nook, and the doorway to the right goes to the kitchen:

    palimpsest - Alta Loma isn't too far. I can look into that company. As far as annexing the laundry room, well, we just finished redoing that room! So, that's probably not going to be an option within our budget. I think it would be feasible to put more cabinets into the nook area. It's something I keep going back and forth on.

    itsallaboutthefood - I didn't want to put upper cabinets because the space is small and I wanted to open it up. But with glass doors, that might work. We also might have to keep a header when we take the wall down.

  • 15 years ago

    Actually the first nook picture shows the bottom right corner of the layout drawing (not the top left!!)

  • 15 years ago

    If you do annex the breakfast nook when you take down that wall, you could close up the doorway that currently goes into the kitchen from the DR, since there is already another doorway into the proposed new larger kitchen space(the doorway into the former breakfast nook.) This would give you a big stretch of wall to work with.

    Figuring that the wall you're taking down is approximately 6" thick, you'd have about 44" between the patio door and the sink window. You could move the range over there with a small counter to it's left. It would be easier to vent and closer to the sink. Then you could place some lower counters under the windows in the nook and call it a baking center, or put in a little bistro set by the windows.

    The pantry could move next to the frig taking the frig away from the wall and moving it closer to the DR.

  • 15 years ago

    This may be very basic and self-evident, but since no one's mentioned it, I want to mention that when shopping for your cabinets, make sure you get frameless style cabinets, not framed. Although framed is more in keeping with the time period of your home, and framed is what you have now, your priority is storage space. Frameless cabinets will give you significantly more storage space.

  • 15 years ago

    Can you close up the door to the patio and move it to where the window to the left is? That would give you more wall space to lengthen your counter run and maybe reconfigure appliances. I guess at this point it becomes about the budget, compromises and how long you're going to be in your house. Updating a craftsman - how cool.

  • 15 years ago

    I like the idea of closing in the door, any of them, to gain wall space. You could even take the expanse of windows and have them become french doors. (craiglist?) Just eliminating a door and moving a window(s)would totally transform the space you have to work with. I'm sorry, in my earlier post I didn't realize exactly what you were moving. =)

  • 15 years ago

    I hadn't thought about closing in a door before. That would definitely give the wall space needed to make the layout more comfortable and functional. My only concerns are budget and messing with the original features of the house (although I'm already doing that by removing the wall). It's definitely something to consider, thank you!

  • 15 years ago

    I don't know what shape your existing cabinets are in, but if the boxes are okay, perhaps you could save money (or free up $$ in the budget for other parts of the remodel) by refacing them instead of replacing them. Here's a link to a place where you can get new doors (solid wood or furniture-grade plywood) and drawer boxes (solid wood, dovetailed, with solid or furniture-grade plywood fronts, and Blum soft-close slides) for a ridiculously reasonable price.

    That's what my mom used for her kitchen, and it came out beautiful. Drawer Depot is in California--southern California, I think--so right near you. They were great to deal with and the stuff was high quality. You have to very carefully measure everything, because you tell them down to the 16th of an inch how big each drawer box, drawer front and door should be. They mail it to you in pieces (except the drawer boxes, which they assemble and finish) and you paint or stain it and put it all together. If they're close enough to you, perhaps you could even save on shipping by picking it up yourself.

    Oh, and PS, add my vote to the pile of votes for expanding the kitchen into the breakfast nook. Don't worry about the low windows--a lower counter is great for a baking zone.

    Here is a link that might be useful: The Drawer Depot

  • 15 years ago

    Neagirl, if someone's touched on this already I missed it. A kitchen remodel is very expensive, even budget versions. Trying to save money for other stuff by avoiding moving plumbing, doorways, etc., is without doubt the most common BIG mistake made. This sort of change is usually not nearly as expensive as feared; and when needed, money spent achieving a great layout pays off many times over, satisfying day after day long after the exciting new cabinets are old stuff.

    So, unless structural realities make it genuinely economically or physically unfeasible to move a doorway or piping, your first step should be to decide on the best layout possible for you in your space without those constraints. Is this really it? Best wishes.

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I really appreciate the your time and the thought you put into helping me.

    palimpsest - I sent a request to the company you linked for an assessment on the stove. At least I will then know what it's worth. Thank you for that resource.

    ideagirl2 - Thank you for the resource. The company is in my area. I don't think the boxes to our cabinets are salvagable, but I am going to look into that company anyway.

    We are still in the decision-making process on the layout. I understand why expanding the kitchen into the breakfast nook is being suggested, and to some extent we want to do that (by taking down the separating wall). So, I think the decision now is whether to put cabinets in the nook as well (not having the peninsula then?) or whether to have the nook as an eat in area.

    Rosie - I completely see the point you are making. That's why we want to take down the wall between the kitchen nook and kitchen. I don't think we are going to be able to move windows or exterior doors though since it's a historic house (due to not only financial reasons, but to keep the original integrity as much as possible). Plumbing, gas lines are different and we would be open to moving those if it provided better functionality.