If I understand correctly is this a new house or your existing house?
If existing you plan to replace all your duct trunk and branches correct. Boots and grills

Next all Bryant and Carrier coils are tin coated.
The T6 Thermidistat is the Edge.

213B is not an option, so throw that option in the dumpster.

Your other options are systems that may not even be available.

I would recommend another Bryant Contractor quote just to make sure the first guy is in line with pricing in your area.

And then ask for
3.5 ton 225A Condenser with FV4CNF005 with T6 Edge
4 ton 226A Condenser with FV4CNF005T with the T6 Edge.
4 ton 286B Condenser with FE4CNF005 with Evolution Control

now since they are doing the duct
Then ask for a
3 ton 286B Condenser with FE4CNF005 with Evolution Zone Control. 3 to 4 zones
Master Bed area, Main Area, Other Bedroom Area and if you have a 4th area make that a zone.
and then the difference of upgrading to the 3 ton 289B condenser.

This is for an existing house, after an addition. The quote was for all new duct work to be placed in the attic, vs the crawl were it is today. All duct work will be sealed with mastic per PTCS sealing guidelines.

Per Bryant's website on the FV4B air handler: 10-year parts limited warranty upon registration; Tin plated coil 10-year parts limited warranty; Copper coil 5-year parts limited warranty. That is why I'm concerned that the Tin plated coils are in place in this quote.

Not quite sure about: Your other options are systems that may not even be available. Is this a fact or a question?

Thanks for you other suggestions, I'll look into them.

Jeff

Re: your comment on the annual cost savings. Thats what our Rheem contractor was trying to convey to us. Your climate is a lot milder than ours but our contractor told us that the cost savings in our central Washington area annual bills wouldn't be that much if we bumped our quote up to a 14 or 15 SEER.

Our house is just a few square feet smaller than yours but if he's right, why spend $2,300 dollars more only to save $7 per year? Doesn't that mean you'd make back your money after 328 years? Lol! That can't be right. Even after a tax rebate? Thats a high premium to pay to get a lot of nothing back.

Don't get me wrong though; I have an old 38 yr old Carrier that I'm told is probably rated a 6 SEER. My winter heating costs are $250-$300 per month. Summer cooling is around $100-$125 per month. We have PP&L. So if your numbers are correct, my savings should be substantial when I move up to a 13 SEER/8.5 HSPF. But I don't think I could justify spending more on a higher end model for myself.

Goodbyekitty and jeffery_1965,
I'm going through the installation of a new system myself in MD, but I notice you are not suggesting looking at a higher efficiency rating. If neither of you have taken advantage of the Fed Tax Credit along with potential local utility credits you are throwing away free $$$ for a nicer system. if your upgrade is $2300 and tax credit is 1500 (need minimum 15 SEER, 8.5 HSPF, 12.5 EER) your difference is now only $800. Depending on your local utility that could be further reduced! Here is what I found for Oregon (State):

Option 1: If you currently have an old heat pump (If you currently have electric resistance heat, see Option 2)

High-efficiency heat pump: $200
Minimum efficiency HSPF 8.8, on units 5 tons or greater
OR
Premium efficiency heat pump: $250
Minimum efficiency HSPF 9.0 or greater, any size unit

Option 2: If you currently have electric resistance heat (electric furnaces or baseboard heat)

High-efficiency heat pump: $400
Minimum efficiency HSPF 8.8, on units 5 tons or greater
OR
Premium efficiency heat pump: $450
Minimum efficiency HSPF 9.0 or greater, any size unit

+ Portland:
State: Oregon
Incentive Type: Utility Rebate Program
Eligible Efficiency Technologies: Heat pumps
Eligible Renewable/Other Technologies: Geothermal Heat Pumps
Applicable Sectors: Residential
Amount: $200
Equipment Requirements: Heat pumps: 7.7 HSPF and 13 SEER minimum
Installation Requirements: Must be installed by a PGE-approved contractor (see program web site)
Program Administrator: Portland General Electric

Also you are only accounting for energy costs in today's dollars. Not sure how your states have been, but here in MD our electrical more than doubled in cost in the last 3 years! (not to mention we have been told they are being raised yet again)

Good luck in your decision!

-Ed

Here is a link that might be useful: Database of State Incentives for Renewables and Efficiency

Hi Ed,

Both option #2 & #3 supposedly meet the federal rebate requirement. I also qualify for a $750 rebate from the local utility company.

I guess the question that really pops into my head is that yes, I can get the highest dollar option, but from the estimated operation cost what's it doing? I was looking for some inputs on the combination of heat pump and air handler to determine if that is as efficient as I can expect?

Thanks for the info on the rebates!

Jeff

You can go to the AHRI website to look for that. Just fill in the model numbers and check eligible for tax credit. You can see all kinds of combinations. Here is what I found:
From your #2:
the numbers are AHRI# 3033260, EER: 13.0, SEER: 15.75, HSPF: 8.50

From your #3:
the numbers are AHRI# 1169036 or 3406046, EER: 13.0, SEER 15 or 15.5, HSPF: 9
Both of which would qualify for the tax credit.

Here is a link that might be useful: AHRI Heat Pump Search

I know for a fact, that a 14 seer single stage heatpump only costs $200 to $300 more than the same size and model 13 seer version.

I don't know how much extra cost having an air handler with variable speed blower adds. I doubt over $300. You need the upgraded air handler and condensor to get the max efficiency.

Why is the contractor charging that much more for the upgraded equipment? I think he's taking advantage of the government rebate and trying to line his pockets.

Maybe get another contractor or tell him your willing to pay $500 extra over the basic model for the upgrade.

jeffery,
1st, bryant does not even manufacture straight copper coils any more they are all tin plated as of early 2009. What they have on their site about copper coils is for customers who have coils prior to the tin plated coil.

The models the contractor gave you for your 2nd and 3rd options.
These models are being phased out for updated models so there is a very limited supply. This is what I mean by availability.

A note:
There is nothing wrong with the models they listed but as per my state FL we no longer have those models available

Plus, I even gave you an out dated model because it is in bedded in my head.
The 225A is being replaced by the 225B so you see it's very easy to put down models that may no longer be available.

next the SEER rating is only part of the system,
The other part and what is more my concern is the quality of the system.
The 213B is a no thrills system and the parts used are just basic parts. This system was to compete with Trane's XB13 Goodman, Amana and other low end model systems. Sure the systems have 10 yr parts, but they are made to last 10yrs and a day. Plus they have a tendency to be noisy and flimsy.
This is the industry as a whole when we talk about the low end models not just that bryant model, remember I'm not talking about lower SEER but low end on quality.

for your annual operating cost, I like to know how those numbers are got.
The thing is no one knows, I mean they are tested but how?
Trust me, I was at the manufacture plant where they test and I still don't get it fully.

So for me it's about quality, you pay for a tin plated coil, you pay for a sturdy case, you pay for a better blower motor and a better condensing fan motor. You pay for electronics that make the system run smoothly.
You pay not to have issues or problems.

Remember if life was all no thrills we all be driving yugo's

Now I have actually tested the bryant evolution system with yearly averages of utility costs.
I have found in my area the customers who have the Evolution Heat Pump Models their monthly heating and cooling averaged out to $48 to $54 dollars a month.
I will say, that if you elect to go with a Bryant 2 speed condenser you will save more no matter what the SEER rating is over a single speed Bryant. I have seen success with bryants 2 speed systems even their base non communicating 2 speed system the 226A. The 226A Heat Pump is my top selling condenser it really does the job well when match with a FV air handler and T6 Edge stat. It does need 10 wire ran to the stat though.

Next if you choose zoning and the zoning is designed well you will save even more money in utilities. Since you are having your duct redone, now would be the time to re do it for zoning. The evolution zone with evolution heat pump is my first choice.

So it never hurts to look into your options and then you can decide what it best for your home.

Thanks for all the good feedback! I decided to call the factory and get the configuration sheets for each system which has proved very useful. I now know where the numbers that emarston presented come from. :) I also contacted the contractor and pointed out the issue with the annual cost estimates. He found out that he made some errors, and now the numbers make sense.

Here's what I've found looking at the configs:

Cooling is at 80*F db, 67*F wb indoor temp, 95*F db outdoor temp
Hi Temp Heating is 70*F db indoor temp, 47*F db 43*F wb outdoor temp
Low Temp Heating is 70*F db indoor temp, 17*F db 15*F wb outdoor temp

Option #2 (225ANA042 combined with FV4BNF005)
Cooling capacity 42000 btu's, EER 13.0, SEER 15.75
Hi Heat E capacity 42000 btu's, E COP 3.78, HSPF 8.5
Low Heat E capacity 25600 btu's, E COP 2.68

Option #3 (265ANH042 combined with FV4BNF005)
Cooling capacity 42000 btu's, EER 13.0, SEER 15.0
Hi Heat E capacity 42000 btu's, E COP 3.9, HSPF 9.0
Low Heat E capacity 26600 btu's, E COP 2.78

Both configs are backed up with a 3 stage 15KW electric strip, controlled with the Edge stat.

Also found out that if I order in the next month there is an additional $400 off option #3, putting it $75 more that option #2.

I need to look at the effect of using a 2 stage condenser. I'm going to see if I can get the documentation for that and try and figure out the good and bad points for that setup. I know this contractor isn't big on 2 stage condensers and really doesn't like the evolution stat unless the customer forces the issue.

I don't think I'm going to go to zoning, but I'll look into it a bit.

Thanks for all the help.

Jeff

The Evolution stat is the same as the Carrier Infinity. If you look at both product websites, you will see there is no difference. I too went through this process and now have the Infinity system based on all the research I did and the comfort level desired in my home.

FWIW take a look at the following link for the Bryant rebate promotions based on systems. My rebates show on my contract reducing the final cost to me. I'm honestly shocked your contractor isn't suggesting the Evolution control. I had 3 separate Carrier contractors (Also looked at American Std/Trane, Lennox, and Ruud/Rheem) all highly recommended the Infinity if it could be used with a system.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bryant Spring Rebates

Oh, I forgot to mention. Really look at what Classic is saying, he is a pro dealing in the very brand you are looking at. Was your home comfortable with the old system? If so then sticking with what you had will probably be fine. If there were issues with temperature imbalance then zoning might be a good idea. It was my first choice until discovering my duct work was horrible and I would have to tear apart the house.

Once you do your research you can make your decision and hopefully have no regrets. I know I couldn't sleep at night until I had done enough learning to satisfy myself that I was making a good decision.

Regarding 2-stage systems, you can find the specs online. I know I did for mine. See the links below for the 2 stage 286/9 and the 265 specs. You will find the combination ratings about 20 pages in. You can also see the differences between models in more detail. (Note that for 2 stage systems it will show capacity for both low and high stages)

Hopefully this helps.

-Ed

286/289 Specs: http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/pds286-289b-01.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: 265A Specs