dawn

how has existing three ton system performed particularly for cooling in the summer mths?

obviously, you have disagreements among your quoting dealers on the correct size.
what size is your home?
did any dealer perform a load calculation for correct sizing?
what size is existing backup heat strip? any problem in the winter mths?

now to the quotes.

I'll start with the Trane. throw the quote in the trash. both price,sizing, condenser mdl. something is wrong here.

now to the Lennox. OK but you want a true var speed air handler not the mdl this dealer has quoted.

Rheem OK.

I would like to hear back the details on the Bryant quote. They make some good HVAC depending on models.

A couple of specific thoughts.
1. you want a system correctly sized that qualifies for the tax credit of up to $1500.
2.You want a thermidistat or thermistat like the HW VP IAQ that has the "dehumidify on demand" feature
3.you want any backup heat strips staged to keep operating costs reasonable.
4.you want the new refrigerant R-410a(Puron) with new lineset.

IMO

Can you give us an idea of the size, insulation, windows of your home? If the Trane dealer can guarantee performance of a 2 ton unit on the hottest days, and can prove his sizing with a load calc, then going with the smaller, properly sized unit for the home is ALWAYS the most efficient and reliable choice for comfort and longterm operation, no questions asked.

The Lennox quote, while cheaper, does not include a variable speed air handler like the Trane setup and presumably the Bryant setup.

I'll try to answer a few questions_
how has existing three ton system performed particularly for cooling in the summer mths?
It works great on main floor, upstairs has always been warmer or colder depending on season.

what size is your home?
2 story cape cod with basement
main floor 1100 sq. ft
upstairs 830sq ft
downstairs 830 sq ft.
all 10 of our windows are 36"x50"
did any dealer perform a load calculation for correct sizing?
only trane
Bryant system quote, he said he would install a 3 1/2 ton Puron 15 SEER with Humifier and drain, so far no model numbers
what size is existing backup heat strip? any problem in the winter mths?
we currently have 10 kw heat strips, usually kicks on when the temp goes below 40 in the winter.
I appreciate any advice.

dawn

it's difficult to believe that any new system less than a three ton would be satisfactory. I would ask to see the load calcs in writing to make a comparison.

I would ask that ductwork be thoroughly inspected as to size, CFMs to each room, insulation properties, etc. if the ductwork system does not have dampers to control airflow to each floor, I would ask if they can be installed.

how many returns does your system have? the more returns, the better airflow.

IMO

When Rheem was here for an estimate he looked at ductwork and said it was satisgfactory for a 3 ton but not for their 3.5 ton. I have also received the following quotes from Lennox, which one is with variable speed air handler?

We have two returns in the house, one on main floor in living room and one in upstairs bedroom.
XP14-036 3 Ton 15 SEER/13EER/8.75 HSPF
CBX32MV-048 air handler with ECM motor
15 KW aux. heater
$5708.00

XP19-036 3 ton 18.6 SEER/12.7EER/9.3 HSPF
CBX32MV-048 air handler with ECM motor
6163.00

XP14-036 3 Ton 15 SEER/13EER/8.75 HSPF
CBX40UHV-048 air handler with ECM motor
$6197.00

XP19-036 3 ton 18.6 SEER/12.7EER/9.3 HSPF
CBX40UHV-048 air handler with ECM motor
$7321.00

I missed all the manufacture rebates on the above models because they expired on June 12th

In order to make a decision, who do I need to call back and what do I ask? I am overwhelmed?

All of those are variable speed systems. The CBX40UHV has an integrated MERV 16 air cleaner. Your pricing on the XP19-036 is good with the CBX40UHV-048. Plus, keep in mind that system qualifies for the $1500 tax credit with those ratings.

Wonder why the Trane came in with a 2 ton.

Ok I heard back from the Bryant dealer

265ANA048
FV4BNF005
TSTATVPRH01V
$6180.00
Without humifier would be $300 less
I asked about the Honeywell IAQ and he wasnt' crazy about installing it, said I would still need to run the humifier?

So I have eliminated the Trane system, which of the three should I buy?

Lennox
XP19-036 3 ton 18.6 SEER/12.7EER/9.3 HSPF
CBX40UHV-048 air handler with ECM motor
$7321.00

Rheem
RPQL0365EZ
RHKLHM3617JA
15 kw heat strip
honeywell provision 8000 stat
install condensate pump
install copper line set
10 year parts and labor
$6998.00

or the above bryant system?

"I asked about the Honeywell IAQ and he wasnt' crazy about installing it, said I would still need to run the humifier?"

Makes no sense. The idea is the VisionPRO IAQ can control humidity and dehumidification, using your humidifier and air conditioner.

"So I have eliminated the Trane system, which of the three should I buy?"

Why? While it does seem a bit odd 2 tons would be the calculated load, if it is, then the properly-sized unit is best for your comfort and energy savings. Sounds like the others are just guessing. Especially the Bryant dealer who came in with 4 tons. I would review the load calc with the Trane dealer, make sure all info is correct, make sure he guarantees performance...

If you can get the Lennox for $300 more and get the $1500 tax credit, that's the direction I'd go. Although the Rheem would be a very nice system as well. Is the Lennox dealer replacing the lineset and including a 10-year labor warranty (equipment already would have 10 years, but may require you to register with Lennox).

If I were to go with Lennox should I insist on the Honeywell visionPRO IAQ instead of the comfortsense 7000? When I asked the Lennox tech he said they did not have that available and the comfortsense 7000 did everything the honeywell did.

I believe the ComfortSense 7000 can also use the variable speed blower to control humidity, but you can confirm this with the tech. I would not have a problem with either the IAQ or the CS7000, and if the tech is familiar more with the CS7000, that's what I'd want. That way it can gain full control of any proprietary features Lennox may have built in to the Signature system.

I still have not made a decision, I am leaning towards the Lennox or Rheem, however Trane rep. called today and lowered his price by $200 I asked about his 2 ton unit when everyone else is quoting 3 ton and he told me that when he did his heat load calcs. that we came up 22,000 and a 2 ton can handle 24,000 so a 2 ton is what is needed, he said if we were not happy with the unit after install. then he would put in a larger unit until we were satisfied, of course I would make them put that in writing. So what are your thoughts? I have a few concerns, first his heat strips are not staged, he does not have tin plated coils, he said there units are made of the same metal so they do not have different metals rubbing and they only have 6-12 welds vs. other systems with 10 times that amount?

4TWR4024A1000A XR14 split heat pump 2 ton
4TEE3F31A1000A variable speed air tite air handler
TCONT803A 3H/2C 7 day prog. auto changeover touch screen
TAYREFLN230 Brazed insulated lineset
BAYHTR1410BRKA Matched backup supplemental hear strips
install new thermostat wire
condensate drain condenser pad
4"riser for heat pump
remove replace
coil and outdoor until level 1 with furnace
10 year parts and labor warranty
$7342.00

Also Lennox is offering a $500 rebate on this unit.

XP19-036 3 ton 18.6 SEER/12.7EER/9.3 HSPF
CBX40UHV-048 air handler with ECM motor
$7321.00 without rebate
only 10 yr parts 1 yr. labor warranty

Thank you so much for your help!!!

dkps

your dilemma is really a no brainer.

toss the Trane quote in the trash. I question the size as well as the ridiculous price.

go with the Lennox XP19. you must decide whether the built-in filter is worth the added cost.

551503 Active Systems XP19 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP19-036-230* CBX32MV-048-230* 36000 12.70 18.60 32200 9.30 19500 1

3292037 Active Systems XP19 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP19-036-230* CBX40UHV-048*+TDR 36000 12.70 18.60 32200 9.30 19500

if there is one negative on the XP19, it is the light heating BTUs. I would not be too concerned over that.

What size backup heat strip is recommended? I would think a 10KW. You should ask that this be staged with two 5KWs.

you do want a new refrigerant lineset and a condensate pump like the Trane quote. You might consider an extended warranty to cover labor. see my previous post on your ductwork, returns, and dampers.

IMO
Good Luck!

If your heat gain is 22,000 btu's, a 2 ton unit still may not be enough with other aspects considered (required sensible cooling, SHR, etc.), so a 2.5 ton may still be more appropriate (or 3 ton if looking at 2-stage units). Making sure your ductwork can handle whatever size unit you put in is the most important.

While I do agree that the Trane dealer's price is high, the dealer did a load calc and guarantees it will keep you comfortable or he will install a larger unit (put in writing as you say). No questions asked, a properly-sized unit will keep you more comfortable and save you money in the long run, so if 2/2.5 tons is indeed the right size, I would never recommend anything larger unless its a 2-stage unit. But even the 2-stage unit is going to run approximately 2-2.2 tons on low, so with a heat gain of 22k btu's (if this dealer is right), a 2-stage unit would short cycle in low stage and not really save you money/give you better comfort. This is what I dislike about 2-stage units that use the unloading scroll compressor (versus 2 compressors for better staging).

The basement isn't generally included/significant in the heat load/loss calculation, so really you're looking at around 1900 sqft. A 2.5 ton unit would not surprise me. I heat/cool approx. 2700 sqft. (and 700 sqft. conditioned basement) with 3.5 tons with no issues in MD, with extremes in both winter and summer.

One last comment. See if you can get the Lennox dealer to do a load calc prior to installing that unit. If you show commitment, they should be willing to do it if they're a good dealer. Good luck in the decision. Considering your pricing, if you're comfortable with the Lennox guy, that's the direction I'd lean, if they'll do a load calc. If your heat load is around 2.5 tons as I suspect it to be, 3 tons would be the size you'd need with the XP19.