I missed the original threads when they were going around and it looks like I missed a lot, AND I haven't read through all the info, but did read that you would have loved an island.

This would need finessing but this is a stab at getting a nice layout (without corner cooktop, which I think is not ideal) and keeps cooktop on an outside wall which is ideal in terms of ventilation. Island would be approximately the depth of 24" base cabinets with overhang for seating.

This plan requires putting in a banquette seating area for your table so it can slide down and reducing the size of your sliding glass doors.

It's better for a dining space. I like the second shot range position better, but that maybe because I am forever traipsing over to the ref to get capers or soy sauce or whatever I forgot to get out the first time and its a much shorter trip.

You have 4 possible prep areas - but I think the side counters around the range don't have a use. I'd think about making the living room cubbie 2 feet wider (by taking away the counter and do 12" x 24" tall shelves or cabinets. Maybe up to around 15" deep at most. Gives you a place to store paraphernalia like oversized pots, casserole dishes, service pieces, extra china, cookbooks, large bowls.

Alternately, you could make the living room cubbies up to a foot deeper and push the range a bit closer to the sink and ref. Depends on your sense of space and how many people you have working in the kitchen.

"I think the side counters around the range don't have a use"

Side counter, right:
Landing space for pantry, cooling spot for baked goods, snack prep for items stored in the pantry. I think the toaster oven or microwave drawer might go over there?

Side counter, left:
Plating, buffet serving space, and for setting things off the table when more room is needed.

:-)

mamadadapaige: I kinda ruled out the island since it would really open up the whole floor and not sure I want that. Also as Bmorpanic had mentioned previously, it would be very expensive to put the kind of beam necessary for that kind of span. The wall that you proposed with a range is not an outside wall so it still needs to vent up through the attic. The only outside walls are the one that you have the banquette seating and of course the one with the sliders.

Bmorepanic: I had a few other notes I should have spelled out. We moved our sectional to now face the wall where the fireplace will be located. It seems that the best location for the TV might actually be where the cubby area is in the LR. This would then allow me to raise the fireplace/hearth off the floor for better viewing. I left the wine fridge and cabinet in there for the time being but that may change.

When you mean second shot are you referring to the second layout I posted above or do you mean the one from my second post/thread? I'm thinking this one because the fridge is closer to the stove here.

Which 4 areas of prep are you referring to? Is this the sides of the range, between the sink and oven, and both side counters by the range? I was thinking that these counters could be usable in the following ways.

- The counter facing the pantry could also be used as a baking station or alternate baking station is someone was working at the sink. Also serves as landing space for the pantry.

- The dining room side could be a place to food, if serving buffet style or a place to stage food. I also had a thought that I could bring one wall cabinet down to the counter on one of the sides and could use that as a message center with a place to store a laptop right on the counter inside the cabinet (I did see this in a magazine).

Basically these counter's are kind of like a reverse peninsula's. They also can serve as prep area's to allow the kids to do tasks and still be out of the way. Also, the items that you mention to be stored in the LR, cubbie area couldn't these be stored in the counter space on the Dr side?

rhome410,

I guess we cross posted. I started writing but stopped to watch a movie w/ the kids. If I waited I could have said what rhome410 said ;).

todds... I like the frig on the short wall... but the CT could work to. Either way I like the countertop space to either side. I think it will look wonderful and be functional in a variety of ways. Could you make the ones on the eating side deeper? That way you could have a cabinet come down to the counter and still have room to lay platters. If you wanted; it would look pretty to keep your china up there with glass insets, accessible to the DR and lovely to look at. Getting ahead of myself...
Anway... the reason I think I like the frig a littler better in the middle is it forms a tighter work/cooking area with comparable prep space. You've got 4' of glorious prep space on one side and 3' on the other. Plus a corner stove can become a great focal point and with a turn you have a full view of everything that's going on in the kitchen. The flow from sink to prep to CT is smooth and you don't have to walk across the kitchen with dripping veggies in your hands to the pan. JMHO... Good luck!

I can see that the fridge on the short wall would close up the work triangle. Also that the corner rangetop is next to the sink for prep. Still not sure how I feel about a corner rangetop and haven't really found pics on the FKB (This isn't a searchable criteria). Not sure how a hood would look above and how the uppers would tie in, especially w/ cooktop @ 36". However, as you can see from the top concept w/ the corner rangetop there is only about 10' of width in the table area. This also does not take into account the current counter overhang. You can't fit as long of a table and if you wanted to extend it w/ company this would be a bottleneck, if not impossible to sit. So making that side even wider I would think would be impossible. But I like your thinking.

I have re-drawn this concept multiple ways to try and find something to put on this short wall to shrink it down. It seems that the range is the best option. IMO, I would think that having the wrap around corners all around the rangetop, would make the space seem larger and more open, then just having he counters on the sides. A prep sink could solve the dripping veggies but not sure its practical.

Keep the ideas/thoughts coming it helps me work through this process.

Second of todd's drawing.

Prep areas in second drawing:
The section between the ref and sink - altho a little bit of "cross talk" with the cleanup area.
Each side of the range.
The second between the corner and the ovens

I think the storage would be more valuable than two little 2 foot sections of counter. I don't understand why anyone would use one of those counters as a baking area when there is a huge space right beside the oven. I don't think plating up around a corner is likely - when the plates are on the other side of the room. Why would anyone walk further to plate up? Plus the op is usually dishing up for four, not ten.

{{gwi:1586539}}

Doesn't plating happen at the stove, so it doesn't matter where the dishes are stored? Maybe I'm not understanding 'plating' the same way? Or maybe not everyone does it that way? I just saw it as a place to load plates or serving bowls and put them down close to/for an easy transfer to the table, while also easily and quickly out of the cook's way. Even though I feed 10 and would do more individual plates if/when I did it that way, I probably don't fill a larger quantity of serving dishes.

Maybe what the fortunate fact is here, is that it's a large enough kitchen so those particular spaces aren't really necessary as either counter or storage. So it can be whatever the family will think looks or 'feels' best...Or I like that it adds character/style and is unique without subtracting anything, functionally, from the kitchen.

With Bmore's last plan, I could see the nook facing the pantry as a very useful cookbook shelf, and the other could store attractive serveware or decorative items. But particularly on the dining room end I think the wrap would be more attractive than just the end of the stove counters (plus a narrow unit of some sort), and still think it could be valuable as buffet/appetizer serving space. Uppers and lowers are just barely less helpful as storage than something that is full storage...at least when we're talking about two sections that are each 24" wide, or with the deep stove counter, less. The wrap is still possible with the deep stove counter without losing any width from the dining room side. Win-win!--? :-)

Considering that potentially very handy cookbook shelf, if it were my space, I might favor an asymmetrical plan with the wrap on the dining room end and the shelf on the pantry end.

Sorry this got so long-winded. Just throwing all my thoughts down here in case any of them are valuable...

Just as an FYI... not cause I'm necessarily advocating a corner range... here's a link from a thread where it was discussed and a few pics/links are posted. HTH!

Here is a link that might be useful: corner range discussion

I know, me too! I plate at poc all the time and then we carry plates, not service pieces. Wouldn't work for ten.

I'm looking for a way to have pantry/food storage closer to ref, so people don't have to walk from one end to the other to make a meal. I don't think it can be had except to move the ref beside pantry, which is not its premium place. Ugh! or Argh! :(

Seriously, have you considered selling your house instead todds?

LOL, Bmore. I never visit the fridge and the pantry at the same time. (I would need a shopping cart, after all) So I never felt a strong need to have pantry and fridge together, as long as they're both handy to where needed.

To pantry, back to stove. To fridge, then sink, and back to stove. Seems OK to me?

Yes, but not really. Examples below aren't picked for any particular reason - except that I like bananas with a bit of rum and brown sugar fried in tiny bit of butter with pancakes instead of maple syrup.

(p) = pantry
(s) = sink
(r) = ref

At baking counter....
Bake-a-cake example:
Cookbook
bowls
mixer (if you use one)
cake pans
cooling racks
rubber spatula
maybe a knife
maybe measuring devices
butter (r)
milk (r)
eggs (r)
baking powder (p)
sugar (p)
flour (p)
flavorings (p)

Should be easy but might be walky....
Canned beets
Can of beets (p)
Can opener
Strainer
Sink (s)
Bowl
Microwave

Pancakes from mix
bowl
whisk
measuring device
griddle
water (s)
pancake mix (p)
oil (p)
eggs (r)
butter (r)
rum (p)
brown sugar (p)
bananas ?

But if the fridge and pantry are next to each other are you going to get all of those things in one trip? I wouldn't...So for example for your cake, you walk a few feet to get all the dry ingredients from the pantry, which fill your arms to capacity, and take them back to the counter. Then you walk a few feet to get eggs, milk, and butter. Does it matter if those few feet are in the same direction you went for the dry ingredients? I suppose it might if there are other workers in the room?

So, are you thinking, Bmore, that it'd be better for Todds to have the fridge and pantry on the short/bumped in wall? That's the only way I can see to have them together and keep the fridge handy to the table.

I don't know! I was hoping you'd know!