darren

what is your location?

what size AC are you replacing?

how do you heat your home?

obviously there is a big difference between a 2 1/2 ton and 4 ton system. Someone is wrong.

I never recommend something that I would not consider for my home. I would not have Goodman period. I would not have the 14ACX Lennox condenser. Dealer should upgrade to the Lennox AC14 at no additional cost.

I have no idea what a "premium cooling output control" is. you need an explanation.

I am very sceptical of the Lennox options and prices. I get the idea that perhaps the Lennox dealer might be trying to take advantage of a situation and/or uninformed homeowner. I suggest getting another quote from an established dealer that does business in your community.

IMO

Thanks for the follow-up.

I am in Chicago and have a boiler for heat.

The current system is 2.5 tons, but currently we only have ducts in the 1st and 2nd floor. We will be adding a run into the basement. (We just moved into the house and the current AC has a leak and a bad coil.)

I don't see a Lennox AC14 on their website.

I will ask about "premium cooling output control". I presumed that just as a fancy way to refer to the thermostat.

Can you tell me more about your unease with the Lennox price? Putting aside the new ductwork that is going in our attic (to feed the second floor), what would one expect to pay for this system?

darren

sorry, I meant to say XC14 Lennox model.

your boiler fuel is oil or nat gas?

I would want to see a load calc performed for AC cooling. How did existing AC perform?

I still recommend another quote for comparison purposes. I don't even consider the Goodman quote worthy of comparison.

IMO

Thanks. The boiler is natural gas.

The existing system runs a lot, even though we keep the temperature set at 75. But, this is one of the warmest summers in Chicago's recent history. And the system has been broken the whole time we've lived here. So we don't really know what the normal experience of this system is, if it were in good working order.

I agree that it would be a good idea to get a comparison quote for the Lennox system. I can certainly ask the guy who gave us the Goodman quote to also quote a Lennox, plus get another quote from another company.

Any recommendations in the Chicago area are appreciated.

Not sure why the one tech would want to mismatch newly installed equipment (i.e., Goodman and Comfortmaker), setting aside any brand preference. My first impression was also that the 14 SEER at a $1500 premium was ridiculous. Another way for the company to take your money, using the tax credit as an incentive. Should not be more than a few hundred dollar difference in cost.

I agree. When the change in price from a 13 seer to 14 condensor is very little. Any contractor charging more than 3 hundred is lining their pockets. I"ve actually seen prices for new condensors. The price increase from 13 to 14 seer is usually around $100 to $200 or so.

The question is whether the 14 SEER is "overpriced" or whether the 13 SEER is "underpriced". I understand that the price difference seems too large. But that doesn't tell me which is the better one to get.

If you're talking about the two proposals separately, then the 13 SEER Comfortmaker system seems underpriced and the 14 SEER Lennox is in the ballpark I would expect. This makes sense though, because the single man operation has less overhead. The Lennox quote seems pretty complete taking into account they are replacing the attic ductwork (correct?) and the refrigerant lineset, along with duct sealing etc. As is, I would not consider the second proposal ($5k). You mention he's been doing this for a while, but apparently not long enough to know how to properly match equipment (Comfortmaker outdoor unit should have a Comfortmaker indoor unit). Not to say the Goodman indoor unit would not work, but it may not be as efficient as a matched system (can't say for sure because nobody rates equipment that is not a manufacturer-approved match). Also, you can run into warranty issues down the road.

Is this an attic installation or a basement installation? One proposal includes new ductwork for the second story of the house while the other proposes to replace ductwork in the basement.

Thanks Ryan. This is helpful.

Re ductwork. I should have been more clear. The air handler is in the attic. There are ducts in the attic that lead to vents in the ceiling of the second floor bedrooms. These are flexible ducts and, I'm told, are too narrow. So the first proposal includes "New ductwork for second floor of the house." This is to replace this flexible ductwork. The second (cheaper) proposal does not include replacing these ducts; we'd have to add that on.

The house currently does not have any ducts/vents in the basement, and the basement is too warm. So we want to add a run into the basement and include 1 or 2 vents down there. The second proposal includes adding a run to the basement. The first proposal doesn't include it, but he said it would be $325 to add this run.

Tigerdunes asked about the "Premium Cooling Output Control". This is just the programmable thermostat.

I actually just had a third company over to give me a quote. I won't have the official quote for a day or two, but this guy said a 2.5 ton system is appropriate. He also highly recommended Rheem, a brand that I'm not familiar with.

Rheem is another manufacturer that makes good equipment. May not be as well heard of as brands such as Carrier and Trane.

2.5 - 3 tons would be my estimate for your cooling requirement just based on location and square footage, but they're all guesses without doing a formal load calculation per Manual J. This is important because to have a system that is efficient and removes sufficient humidity requires proper sizing.

Let us know what the Rheem guy comes back with and any other updates you have. May be worthwhile to get a 4th estimate since my guess is you only have a couple estimates you're even considering at this point.

darren

Rheem and sister company Rudd are often an overlooked and underated brand. depending on system quoted, they have excellent performance/efficiency numbers. and if you are not budget bound, I would even consider a heat pump that could handle your heating needs easily in the shoulder mths and normally above 30 degrees. this may hold some interest to you especially if you have reasonable electric rates which I thought your location does.

I can make some Rheem system suggestions if you like.

IMO

I would love some Rheem suggestions. Thanks.

We considered putting a furnace in the attic, instead of an air handler, with the idea that we'd have it as a back up for when the old boiler finally goes. But this turned out not to be as cheap as we thought it would be because we'd have to run a gas line to the attic and insulate the attic better. Plus, we only plan to live in the house 5-7 years. The boiler may go during that time, but we don't have any indication that it will.

We are somewhat budget bound. The pricier Lennox system above ends up being $6350 after the tax rebate (plus $325 to add a run into the basement). We can live with that price, esp because the installer offers financing. But we don't want to go higher.

The guy who came by today (who recommended the Rheem) suggested that we skip the AprilAire whole house humidifier. He said that radiators produce moist heat and we may not need anything more. We originally wanted the humidifier for comfort and also because we have a lot of wood furniture that we want to protect. This guy said we can always get a cheaper room humidifier if we need it, or install the AprilAire thing later.

Finally, I'm curious why each company can install just about any brand, but each seems to have their go-to brand. I actually found the guy who recommended the Rheem system on the Trane website.

darren

the established dealers in business many years have a primary premium brand they sell such as Carrier or Trane and usually one or two secondary brands normally that don't have a high profile or advertising budget of any significance,without the latest and greatest bells and whistles and a different price point. Nothing shabby about Rheem though.

for AC system Rheem RAPM
3806621 Active Systems RHEEM RAPM SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RAPM-030JEZ RHKL-HM3821+RCSL-H*3821 30400 13.00 16.00 1

for HP system Rheem RPQL
3393230 Active Systems RHEEM RPQL SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPQL-030JEZ RHKL-HM3617+RCSL-H*3617 30000 13.00 15.50 29000 9.00

Both qualify for tax credit.

IMO

Thanks so much - this is incredibly helpful.

take a look at this site for state incentives. worth a look.

Here is a link that might be useful: State Incentives