Oakley - this is a great thread and very timely as I am sure this is an issue for both parents and grandparents.

I am not a grand and probably won't ever be, just not in the cards. While my heart aches about that, and is a whole different issue.

Here's my take on your dilemma. Please honor your DS & DIL practical wishes. At least for now. They have obviously given it thought and probably want their kids to be raised without expecting that life is only good if you have material things. I have to tell that their feelings are warranted. I would consult them before buying anything other than what they've asked you to do. Your DS & DIL have a "vision" right now of how they want their children to be raised and as the grandparents, it is up to you to honor that.

There are so many people that didn't have grandparents growing up. I had one only grand, and your comment "Remember, the oldest is only 3. But if I were to keel over tomorrow, I want him to have memories if that's possible at such a young age. I know I'm being morbid." made me chuckle as my own DGM overspent on us kids with that exact thought in mind.

However, the stark reality is that your grands won't remember you, but in pictures if you were to pass now regardless of how many "things" you buy them. As they approach first or second grade they will have memories of you.

Really, what is most important is what you do with them, not what you buy them.

I can only really remember one specific present from DGM, though there were so many it was ridiculous. It was a framed print that I was lusting after when I was in high school, and very into ballet at that time. She didn't blink and shelled out the $$ to purchase it for my 16th birthday. I always think of her when I see that print. It is in the attic at the moment because I don't have the right spot for it at the moment. I displayed it in DD's BR for a few years, but I am the one who has an attachment to it. Point being, from all the years of overcompensating like you want to do, I remember, and actually have only one gift from my DGM out of the hundreds given. What I do have tho, are the memories of time spent with my DGM. DGM did so much with us as kids, teens and young adults. Fortunately DGM lived to see her GC give her great grands. I think doing things with the grands are so much more important than buying them things.

I know you and your DH are active grandparents, so as long as you keep up with that, there is no worry that your grands won't remember you. Overcompensating for not having grands yourself is crazy thinking, and I know you're thinking that, or you wouldn't have started the thread. Show up for the recitals, sports, and other activities they choose to participate. That will be remembered. There's nothing like having a row of family supporters when you're doing your first dance recital or your first game playing outfield on a Little League baseball team.

Fast forward to my own DD. We had a difficult situation from the time of DD's birth and without my parents' help, we would have lost our minds. Not financial help, emotional support. Being there. They have continued up to and including the present day. Teddy Bear Picnic, Christmas shows, trips to Disney before she really should have been going. Fishing with grandpa, making crafts with grandma, or just hanging out for the weekend while DH & I were able to get away now and then. DD spent so much quality time with my parents that she will have a heart full of memories to keep their memory alive in her when they are gone.

My DM & DF have done way too much materially for my DD. I have tried, but my parents have 1 grandchild and while I don't like it, my DM buys what she likes. Now if my DH objected, I would have put my foot down with my DM and she would have honored what DH wanted.

DM & DF would have given in a different way and actually do. You can either sock money away for when your grands are ready to go off to college, start and/or contribute to investment portfolios that may already be in place by the parents or, make contributions in their name. I was reading a grand on GW who did that for hers. Thought it was a great idea. A slush fund of sorts for needs that arise that your DS & DIL can't even imagine. My DD studied abroad last year and her DGF gave her some (alot) of spending money and it was needed, and very much appreciated by my DD as well as DH & I.

You need to chill and see how this plays out. But, please I ask you to honor their requests as made. At least for now.

I think some are misunderstanding me. I spend a LOT of time with my grandchildren. We cuddle constantly, play together, they know for a fact I love them and vice versa. They get a lot of my time & an overabundance of my love. They are my life.

In fact, when the kids came home from shopping, the 14 mo. old was snuggled on my chest because she had just woken up from her nap. When she saw mommy whom she adores, she didn't want to go to her. She wanted ME. It really made me smile.

I don't equate toys with love. I just want to give them a toy every now and then because that's what grandmas do! It's part of the special relationship we have that no other person on this Earth has.

I also bake for them before they come over so they can have special treats at grandma's house. I wear the same perfume each and every time I'm around them so they'll remember my scent. I do that deliberately.

It's not like I'm giving them toys withouto love and time. A few toys are just icing on the grandma cake. lol

Patty cakes, when did this "spoiled" thing start with our kids?? Is there a new parenting book telling them to not let us grannies give our grands a gift every now and then or it will SPOIL them rotten and make them bad people? lol

Like I said, I grew up wathing my friends have grandmas who both spent good loving time with them, and bought them treats and they sure weren't spoiled.

My best friend was an only child, very wealthy. She'd come home from grandma's with a new bracelet. She adored her grandmother but it wasn't because of the gifts.

Same with my kid's friends. They had to watch their friends get lots of love, time and treats from their grandparents and those kids weren't spoiled either!

So I'm not getting this spoiled thing at all. I know my kids are trying to be good parents but I think they need to lay off some of the parenting books which they have a lot of. :)

But, I do remember being their age and reading all the books I could on parenting and I know I did similar things, so I'll cut them slack on that one.

Natal - I do respect their wishes. I don't give him things all the time. I said I have things stashed away that he has for here - when I find them reasonably priced, I get them. I did say I don't care if I went overboard for Christmas. He will get a couple of the playsets for Thomas, books, and a couple of trucks to play with outside and the big wheel. That will be going overboard to them. We did get permission for the big wheel for his birthday but decided he was too small for it then.

I do abide by their wishes - I have yet to be allowed to take him anywhere but the library and the grocery store and bank with me. He is not allowed to watch much TV or have much sweets. He has not been allowed in the pool, even though she has taken him to baby swim lessons. I have asked to take him to the zoo, to Disney, etc but no - they want to do those things with friends or the other GPS.

DIL is Jewish so there is no Santa, no participation in decoratng the tree, no Easter bunny or egg hunt so all I can really do is what I have for him here. They will come for Christmas Eve, we will open their presents (which I wrap in plain or Hanukkah paper)and that will be about it. This is the same thing that we have done since they have been married.

Most of my friends have told me - do it anyway - take him with you to the mall to see Santa - take him to wherever you want. I won't do that but it is hard to watch other GPs share these special occasions with their grandchildren.

Sorry - I guess you can tell there is more to the story than my original response. I love my GS so much - I TREASURE the time I have with him and I would not do anything to jeporadize that, which is what I would be doing if I didn't abide by their wishes. However, their wishes should be reasonable, don't you think?

Oak, you wrote:

"I don't equate toys with love. I just want to give them a toy every now and then because that's what grandmas do! It's part of the special relationship we have that no other person on this Earth has."

Grandmas don't. Especially if the childs parents have asked them not to.

Another thing you shared that would have upset me if I was your daughter-in-law was that you had wrapped gifts under your tree that you let the grand open. It sounded like a little Christmas before Christmas. without the parents. Might they feel that you have taken away from the actual day?

ML

However, their wishes should be reasonable, don't you think

There's nothing you wrote that sounds unreasonable on their part, especially where religious beliefs are concerned. Shame on your friends for encouraging you to go against your children's wishes.

Oakley, you don't seem to be willing to understand your son and DIL's point of view. Be careful that you don't end up pushing them away.

I would like to give my two cents, because I have seen what can/could happen when parents put a lot of restrictions on the grandparents.

My brother and SIL had kids first and had so many restrictions on their kids; no candy, no playing "certain" games, no this, no that...

My sister and BIL then had her kids, and let my mom and dad be Grandma and Grandpa, hardly any restrictions.

My DH and I were a little late in the game with our DS, so I got to see how things played out a little.

There is definately a closeness with my parents and my sister's kids, and my son, that my brother's kids weren't allowed to have. My mom would babysit my brother's kids quite of bit and was close to them in the beginning, but then all the rules came, when my oldest nephew was about 2 or 3 and it really put a barrier between them. I remember my parents and myself were afraid to do anything, or say anything wrong. I do think they got more lax as the years went on, but, it was like the damage was done, and then the other grandkids were born, and my parents knew they could be "themselves" around them, and spoil them. My grandma spoiled me. Not just with gifts, but her time and hugs, and candy, and anything I wanted! I have the fondest memories of my mom's mom. My other grandmother, hardly did anything with us or for us. I remember her getting us gifts for Christmas that were WAY too young for us. She hardly knew us, really.

I have let my mom and dad be the Grandparents they want to be. Yes, they give my son candy before dinner, gifts that I won't buy him, take him anywhere he wants to go, but, I wouldn't have it any other way. He knows when he comes home, he plays by our rules. His Grandparents are special, just as they should be.

DILs and MILs - no matter how much they like each other it is always a battle. Really, it is. Wives need to know that their husbands will choose them over their moms. It is what it is. It does get better with time, but it never goes away completely. My MIL is a wonderful woman, but she still can drive me crazy.

So, as I read these posts I find myself relating much more to the DILs in these stories. So, I'm going to say what they probably want to say to you, but can't because they are being polite and trying to have a good relationship with you.

Oakleyok- You are just at the beginning of this grandma thing and there is plenty of time for them to figure things out. In the mean time, and I say this in the nicest way possible, really, but, you need an attitude adjustment. Your son and his wife are doing their best to raise their child. You play an important role, but it is a supporting role. Your DIL had her first born want to stay with you and it made you feel great. It made your DIL feel like crap. What I get from your posts is your inability to see their side of the story, to feel any empathy for them, to understand their position. Not agree with their position, just to understand it. You are doing what they want, but in the most judgmental way possible. Your resentment of their request comes through loud and clear in your posts and I am sure it does to them as well. You want to do what you want to do because of your experience. You leave no room or understanding for their wants. It seems you think that you are right, they are wrong and you just have to stand there tapping your foot with your arms crossed until they come to their senses. This does not bode well for you. Change it now before you create more stress for them and yourself.

Mboston- as a Jewish mom with Jewish kids and a non-Jewish husband, your DIL is being reasonable. You are not. You are being unreasonable because of your resentment. You resent her and she feels it. She knows it. Not really a good place to be for either of you. Although you may have dreamed of taking your grands to sit on Santa's lap and giving them baskets from the Easter bunny, it is not going to be their tradition. You have to give that up and be happy. They have other traditions that you can participate in, or create your own traditions that have nothing to do with religious symbols. Ask to be invited to the family Seder with her parents; ask to go the Hanukkah party. In fact, you can have your own Hanukkah party for your grands. Fry up some potato pancakes, light a menorah and have a great time. Embrace their choices and make them part of your own. Your grandkids are going to be Jewish. I know that this is not what you would like, but make the best of it by embracing that choice. If you can't bring yourself to participate in the Jewish holidays, then make 4th of July "your holiday", or pick some random date and make it the "mboston annual family party palooza". Make your own memories in your own way; a way that does not compete with your DIL (and your son's) wishes. Be happy, not resentful.

Probably not what you guys wanted to hear, but I think it is what your DILs want to say to you.

Just wanted to add: I wish my MIL lived closer, she is a wonderful Grandma, and is just like my parents, spoils her grandkids! She is a few states away, and we go see her and the rest of my husband's family about 3 times a year, and they spoil us all rotten! She sends my DS cards and gifts through the mail. So, I could "possibly" see if both sets of grandparents lived nearby, could be a problem with getting their way too much. Possibly...HA!

So much good advice here. Having lost my grandparents this year, I find myself reminiscing strongly now at the holidays, and what comes to my mind is not one single thing they gave to me. Their adoration of me - even when I was a hard-to-adore teenager and even when I reached middle age and was no longer a cute little girl - will forever give me strength. Their own strength of character, demonstrated to me in countless ways, compels me to live honestly and with an open heart. If there are any "things" that bring them to mind, it's the quilt that Grannie made for me - the day that we went to the fabric store and bought the material together. The letters that they wrote to me when we were but a simple phone call away - but we all enjoyed sharing ourselves by mail even more. The photographs of so many happy events of our lives. It's absolutely nothing that came from the store. That stuff is merely unmemorable fluff and filler.

Reading some of the comments here about how little petty annoyances and disagreements about gift-giving and mall-Santa-seeing has taken away some of your holiday spirit, I urge you to reconsider and realign your thoughts with what truly matters. You have each other - here and now - and that is all that matters.

I don't mean to sound harsh or unfeeling towards situations here; it's just that I'm missing so very much the dear people that I've lost this year, and I've seen some other issues that are threatening to truly tear families apart. Cherish each other. And don't give a second thought to the fluff and filler.

Auntjen, that is a wonderful point. When we had the ceremony to bury my parents' ashes, one of my nephews spoke up about how many wonderful memories he had of them, how good of a relationship my parents had and how he could see they truly loved each other-- how that was a great legacy.

When my MIL passed away in 2005 many of her grandchildren spoke at her mass. This was her granddaughter's euology.

Thank you everyone for coming. I know I don't need to stand here and tell you how great Nanny was. You wouldn't be here today if you didn't already know this about her. She meant so much to everyone and I'm sure each of you holds your own special memories, I know I do. It's hard to put into words a lifetime of memories and experiences. I am the lucky one that has had so many memories. Not everyone is able to have a relationship with their grandmother like I did.

As I sat down to write this and think about what I wanted to share, I had a very hard time. The problem wasn't what to write, but more what not to write. Nanny has touched us in so many ways that it is hard to choose the most important things about her. I've decided to make a top ten list of the most memorable moments about Nanny. Many of you can relate to them.

For 89 years Nanny celebrated her birthday on the wrong day. It wasn't until 2 years ago that we discovered this. Maybe I'll change the date of my birthday, it will keep me younger.

Nanny enjoyed Christmas more than any child I know. Her eyes would light up at the sight of Christmas lights. The oohs and ahhs could be heard from the back seat of the car.

Nanny was the only one I know who could play the game of Balderdash and fool herself. In this game you make up your own definition of a word and try to trick people into believing your definition is correct. Nanny liked her definition so much she picked her own. Thanks for keeping us laughing.

You could always count on getting a birthday card or Christmas card from Nanny with every word underlined.

Whenever you called to speak to Nanny, she and Grampy would get on the phone at the same time. They spent more time telling each other to get off the phone than having an actual conversation with you.

When you pulled out of the driveway of 60 ------- Street Nanny would always be looking out the kitchen window in her apron waving. If it took Grampy too long to direct you out of the driveway we might catch her waving in the living room window too.

Your feet would never be cold. Every time you walked into the house Nanny would offer you a new pair of slippers. I realize now you can never have enough "Nanny slippers".

Nanny would be so proud if you finished all the food on your plate. We would call it a Nanny plate. We still do.

There was no such thing as a "little something to eat". It was important to fast before visiting. If you were in the neighborhood and decided to just stop by that could pose a problem. You would have to figure out quickly how you were going to be able to consume a whole pan of lasagna by yourself.

The number one memory I have of Nanny was her ability to make her family feel important. She always welcomed us into her home, in fact she got excited.

Nanny I know you are in a better place now. All we want is for you to be happy. We miss you and love you very much. I'm sure Grampy is up in heaven already yelling HELEN. You are already at home.

So I leave you with one final quote: "A grandmother is a little bit parent, a little bit teacher and a little bit best friend."

She was all of them.>

Natal and Geo, I'm almost at a loss for words at what you two said. You guys are sooo off the mark.

I do respect their wishes.

I do not resent it, I'm just bummed because we don't give the kids gifts all that much so I didn't see what the big deal was.

I haven't voiced my differing opinion to them nor will I. They have no idea how I feel because I like to keep the peace.

My DIL was NOT hurt that her daughter wanted to keep cuddling with granny and not go to her. In fact, she and my DS smiled because they like the bond we're making. Especially since they know I never had a grandmother. So don't even go there.

If I openly disagreed with them, then I could risk pushing them away. But if you had read what I wrote you'd see I kept my mouth shut and only vented my hurt here. Not to them.

My DIL told me a few months ago she considers me to be her best friend. We are both blessed to have each other. I couldn't have hand picked a better DIL if I tried!

I am extremely close to her and both my sons. Extremely.

Because of my lack of grandparents, and talking to other grandparents about how much fun it is to "spoil" them (which does not mean turning them into brats or giving them toys all the time!), my bubble was burst.

I just wanted to come here to vent and see if anyone else was in my shoes. I didn't expect to receive such harsh and untrue words from you two as if I'm a bad guy deliberately going against their wishes and not understanding them. I do! I simply disagree is all.

Disagreeing does not mean I don't have empathy for them. I give them Kudos for working hard to be good parents.

Oakley, if you read all the posts here you would see similar sentiments expressed by many ... not just the two people you chose to single out. Typical.

Natal - what a beautiful tribute. Thanks so much for sharing that. It called to mind even more personal memories for me.

Oakley - I wrote in response to what you wrote here. I don't know what you meant to say, or how you feel; I only know what you wrote. I am glad you have a good relationship with your DIL. I wish you and your family happy holidays.

Oakley, I agree that folks are just responding to what you've written here. You've said quite a few things, such as your bubble being burst, how this is bothering you, your son was harsh, Karma will come back to "bite" your son, you can't win for losing, etc. I think people here have been very sensitive to your sensitivity, but you've also got to understand that when you write something like this: "This topic is for everyone. If you had/have a grandparent, if you're a grandparent, if you're the mom of little one's, and if you haven't had a grandparent, I need your advice" - people take you at your word and believe that you truly are seeking advice, instead of just wanting to vent. I think you should be a little more clear about what you expect when you post things such as this. If we were all sitting around a table over coffee and just talking, it would be different than trying to communicate our thoughts in writing.

I am truly sorry that you're hurting, but stand by my earlier post urging you to focus on the big picture, especially at this wonderful time of year. I wish you peace.

oakley - I don't think people misunderstand you. I think with all due respect (and I do mean that sincerely), you're not listening to what we are trying to share with you. You can't ask for advice and then if it that advice isn't what you want to hear, be mad and acuse those who took time out of their day to write you a heartfelt note, that they misunderstand. Every single post I've read on this thread was written with thought. Please remember that before you take offense. You asked, we responded. I know that I didn't set out to offend you and in the event I have, I apologize.

What I understand is that you are a hands-on grand. You spend as much time as you can with grands and that is what it is all about. The books your DS&DIL are reading make sense and I applaud them for doing what they feel to be in the best interest of the kids.

I will tell you that in the event I asked my parents to refrain from giving and they didn't, I would restrict the visits. You definitely want harmony, so what is the harm in just doing what they ask? The kids are not going to like or remember you any more because you've given them gifts. They will remember what you did with/for them in daily life.

If you really want to still give above the restrictions set forth by your DS & DIL, you could structure some education accounts for both grands - in their names with you as trustee. No it's not something they can pick up and play with at the moment. But, don't you think they have lots of stuff to play with already. Believe me, when DD opened presents on Christmas morning, she had no idea by evening, who had given what gift. The money will certainly help when it comes time for them to choose a college. And, I can tell you that they will appreciate the gift of perhaps choosing a college that they might not have otherwise been able to afford, if not for your generousity by starting education accounts now.

And yes, I've read that you are best friends with your DIL. The point is I wouldn't want to see that fantastic gift of friendship with your DIL ruined by a few hurt feelings, especially over material things. It's just not worth it.

I sincerely hope you will read what I've written and accept it in the vein it was intended - a friendly and honest response.

Thanks for the kind words, Work. I am taking their advice. I've said numerous times I'm respecting their wishes, and I've not once confronted them on it.

That's where I'm lost with the replies. People keep telling me I need to abide by their wishes, and I am! lol. I've done everything everyone here has suggested.

I don't get why you or anyone are saying I asked for advice and don't want to hear it. I got it, and I took it.

I probably shouldn't have labeled my topic "need gp advice" and instead just wanted to see how other grandparents feel about this situation.

However it does bother me when I'm told I'm going to push them away *after* I said a 100 times I'll do what they say and not confront them, or I don't have empathy towards their hard work at being parents because I merely disagree with this one "rule" they have. That is so far from the truth.

But all's cool. I do wish they had waited until after the Holiday's though because now I feel like I've screwed up at being a grandmother. Something I longed to be my whole life.

Rose, I just saw your reply. The other grandparents have already set up a savings account for the kids so it would be awkward if we did the same thing. But it is a good idea.

I'd still want a toy though if I were a kid. lol.

I don't think it would be awkward at all. Do you realize how much college costs these days? To have resources available to them for college would be awesome. Heck, if there is $$ left, they could buy a house down the road.

Of course he would rather have a toy NOW but his parents are trying to teach him values. That is a good thing.

Build his library.

The other grandparents have already set up a savings account for the kids so it would be awkward if we did the same thing. But it is a good idea.

Why? College is expensive now, and is likely to get more so. It might also help them learn something about delayed gratification.

Oakley, I am likely in the same age range of your son and DIL. I suspect that their concerns for spoiling come from the times we are living in. Many are looking around and wondering how on earth did we get to this place? Many are coming to the conclusion that greed and materialism has likely played a part and the question becomes, how do we make a better world for our children? How do we keep our children from being self centered and overly materialistic? The tricky part of all this is finding a balance, and this is probably part of their (everybody's) struggle. How do we live in such an affluent society and enjoy the blessings of our affluence without overlooking those who do not have the same advantages we do. The answers to these questions are not always the same for all people and perhaps the biggest benefit will come from the wrestling with the question.

Relationships are a process and you have not failed at being a grandma by giving gifts. Gifts are only one part of the relationship and now they will be a smaller part of that relationship but reducing your gift giving will only impede that relationship as much as you allow it to.

Tish, you pose fascinating questions and touch on issues that deeply interest me! You raise points relevant to Oakley's query, but also go way beyond it. I think you exude much wisdom as you inquire about the role that money and things play in our development and to our happiness. You challenge the "more is better" premise, and I applaud you.

I know this is getting off-topic, but study after study shows that once our basic needs are met, lots more money does not make people happier. Lottery winners usually report a year after acquiring their winnings that they are not more happy, and sometimes reveal they are less happy than before they won their loot. Still, we don't ever seem to *believe* these people, and insist that WE would be different if WE were fabulously wealthy! When we watch the rich and famous celebrities suffer from multilple divorces, addictions, and other destruction we also insist that WE would be different; immune from such folly! Really? I can't help but wonder that Maybe there's something *to* living simply and finding beauty and joy in the ordinary! Could the best-kept secret around be that contentment with little is the epitome of true wealth?

New Dawn recently posted a quote that sums it up well:

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have." Beautiful!

Thanks tish. I am not of oakley's kids' age, but I am concerned about my 21 yr. old and her future with the way the current economies of the world are headed.

Oakley - Okay, let's be honest - the title of the thread is "Re: Need grandparenting advice". Can't say you didn't ask for advice. Read your first paragraph.

Just because the other grandparents have done something to set up a fund, there are so many creative ways to do something similar (being with $$). Talk to your accountant when you see him at tax time. Better yet, if you have time before the end of the year, give him/her a call. You may want to put something together to gain a tax benefit for this year. It's a win win.

I can tell you that personally it is costing DH & I much more to put DD thru school than we planned for when she was born. Despite the $45k (this year), with a year to go. Tuition increased each year by at least $3-4k a year. Besides the tuition, there are books, dorm living, set up expenses, spending $$, study abroad travel if that becomes on their radar. That's just the first leg of the trip down the road toward a career and supporting themselves. There's grad school, and that is pretty much a must to compete for jobs these days.

Believe me, if you think you're making an impression on your grandkids now with their age appropriate gifts, start a fund for their post high school education and it would be priceless to both your grands and their parents. They will be forever grateful.

Don't dismiss the funding so quickly.

Lastly, I think everyone who wrote you a response knows that you said you weren't consulting another family member as you didn't want your DS to know you were upset. Also, we all know you're over the moon and spend as much time as you can with your grands. I don't think anyone has missed those two facts.

Wow, WorkinProgress! Guess winning the lottery wouldn't sound half bad right about now, LOL! Seriously, that's insane tuition, AND I realize not so outside of the norm these days. Your DD is very fortunate! She must be very bright and attending an excellent school (I certainy HOPE it's excellent at those prices!)

stinky - no unfortunately, it isn't so out of the norm. Winning the lottery, lol. Don't I wish. However, you have to play to win, and that I don't do.

DD is very bright, and is attending a great school. She is maintaining a 4.0 going into the Spring semester of her junior year. All things considered, we feel it is worth every penny. I will add that she did receive the Presidental (of the college) Scholarship (4 yr), which is the highest amount given to applicants, and is merit based. It certainly helps!

Geogirl 1 - would you mind if I email you privately? I would like your opinions on a couple issues. I promise I am not going into an attack mode with anyone on here, I truly do have a couple questions that perhaps being in a similiar family makeup - you could share your thoughts.

If not, I understand.

You can contact me first through gardenweb.

Hi Mboston- Please feel free to email me through gardenweb. I just checked that box and made that possible. I don't think you have enabled your gardenweb email b/c I don't see the "email mboston" button. I could be doing it wrong though!

mboston I read the response from geogirl 1 and immediately looked to her profile to contact her, also. I am a Jewish DIL with a non-Jewish DH and geo hit the nail on the head. My relationship with my MIL has always been prickly for just the reasons geo mentioned. My sons were pawns in my MIL's eyes and she seemed to take delight in undermining our family dynamic and choices by taking them to see Santa, or her church when we were out of town and had specifically asked her not to. We had no objection to occasional church services but made it clear it had to be with us in attendance and she ignored that. As a result, we stopped allowing them to care for our kids when we took a weekend away and even limited little outings that should have been special times for everyone. We simply could't trust her. That distrust extended to smoking for which we had a zero tolerance policy - she'd take them in her car, windows closed and light up. Nothing we said mattered, she had raised 4 kids, knew it all and we were (in her eyes) being overprotective and unreasonable. It always came back to me from one of DH's siblings that she blamed me - the Jewish girl who was ruining her family and 'taking her son away'. Some of this may well be the typical DIL/MIL issues that someone else spoke of but not all by a long shot. It's very sad because I REALLY looked forward to a warm relationship with her - she was/is a young grandma, vibrant and very much hands on, playing and being silly with her grandkids. My mom was considerably older when my kids were born, loving, but not down on the floor playing trucks as my MIL did. My boys are young men now, 22 & 26 and although they love their grandma, their relationship is limited. She would occasionally say things to them, or in front of them that put me in a bad light - very subtle, very passive aggressive, but you can't fool kids, they feel it even if they don't understand the psycho dynamics. Your grandkids need you in their lives - it's so important and rewarding for them to have multiple generations of love and support and you sound like a wonderful grandma. I truly hope you can see that some of the things that disappoint you or that feel like a loss of a tradition are small potatoes in the big scheme of life. Your son chose this woman for a reason and supporting their relationship and choices is the most loving thing you can possibly do for them and their family.

As far as respecting their wishes...at times people may only read the first post and then comment what they think. I know you mentioned in the beginning that you're going to follow their wishes, and I think that's good, but people are just saying they would do the same and some have mentioned how it could damange the relationship if you didn't. I'm sure you already figured that but I think people were just trying to help.

I really think it's really hard at times to express feelings on a computer the way they're intended.

You haven't screwed up being a grandmother! You're very involed with with lives and that's the important part.

Amj - Ha, I got a chuckle at Toys R Us. I'm a little concerned with our inlaws about this. I never thought about if they buy everything under the sun how can take away ideas for the parent.

This is such an interesting and helpful thread for me. I have just one 2 yr old grandchild and am lucky to live in the same town. I care for him from 2-3 days a week and one of his other 2 g'mas keeps him about the same amount of time. She cares for him in his parents' tiny condo; I always bring him to my house for a change of scenery for him and to make it easier for me. He loves coming here and has spent several weekends with me because he is so totally at home here with me. The third grandma is also in town, but she sees him much less often. All the grandmas love him and he loves us all.

I LOVE buying things for him, but never, ever thought about taking pleasure from the parents being able to do so. I thought it was all about him having things that he would enjoy and feel like I am in a better financial position to provide it. I don't go overboard and mostly what I buy stays at my house so he has another interesting and stimulating place to be. I buy educational, quality things (that won't end up in the landfill) that he can play with for a long time.

One of my friends sent me her son's outgrown Thomas train setup and I knew he'd love it when he came here. Then a few weeks later his mom bought a more elaborate train set up and even moved the dining room furniture to storage so it could be set up in their tiny home. I was a little ??? about that because it seemed like he'd get plenty of train time here and it would be a special treat at g'ma's. I NEVER thought about his parents wanting that special treat for him via themselves, so this has opened my eyes to being more sensitive to what I buy and where I take him. I do take him every week to the farmer's market where we listen to music and buy broccoli and apples (what he wants) plus whatever I need for the week for myself. They don't frequent the market, so it's not something special they would do with him anyway.

I've learned a lot about how they might feel from you all, so thanks!

Well I'm not a Grandmom yet but I'm about to become a MIL and a lot of the advice given here will serve me well when my son marries. I've already been involved with the "Christmas Eve at her Mom's house and Christmas morning at mine" discussions. I just tell them to do whatever works out best for them. Our family is small so it's not like I have to schedule things around multiple grandparents, aunts and uncles etc. And I remember how difficult it was when I first married.

They do hope to start a family soon since they are both over 30 ao it may not be too long before I am a Grandma - how fortunate I'll be when that happens. I'll try to remember the wise suggestions made here. Thanks.

Well, you did ask for advice Oak. And you've received it. The first thing that struck me was the Christmas present before Christmas. That was out of line IMO. Took the "specialness" out of Christmas. The second thing was when you said "They are my life." That's too much. Love them and spend time with them but don't make them your life. That's what produces spoiled grandchildren.

My own experience with grandparents. My dad's parents died before I was of an age to know them. My other grandpa died when I was twelve but I didn't know he was my grandpa until after he died. He bought me a pretty little porcelain lidded bowl that I cherished but that my mom thought was too delicate for a child. I broke it sure enough but I glued it back together and still liked it. Grandma loved pretty things. She'd buy me (once every two years or so) some "jewel" that mom didn't approve of. Mom let me keep them but I think it didn't help their relationship. Looking back it would probably would have been better if grandma had resisted her desire to buy me things even though I loved them at the time.

All family relationships are complicated and what fits one family won't work for another. We have to adapt and accept.

There is a nice medium between the parents over parenting and the grandparents over indulging. Doesn't sound to me like you went too overboard. Hope your kids lighten up over time oakley!

I have fond memories of my grammy spoiling us and we turned out fine. Roller skating in her dining room, jumping on the trampoline she set up in her living room for us. And even fonder memories of my dad and mom setting the grandkids loose (including my dd) in the candy aisle of their store every couple of months. As parents, we would never have dream of spoiling the grandparents fun.

Thanks deedee, I feel the same way. All's well. My sweet DIL emailed me tonight and said it was all my son's doing and for some reason he's just afraid the kids would get spoiled by having too many toys. It's not like they have a ton of them, just the average amount.

She said she even agreed with me. He was upset that the kids got to open a present here at our house on Saturday because "Santa only comes once." But he did the same thing when he was their age! I guess he's forgotton.

Son told his wife that he didn't mean to hurt my feelings at all, but it was the way he worded things which hurt me.

So a fun Christmas is back on! Thanks for letting me vent. When I get alone time with my DS I'll tell him that spoiling a child with toys is when they ask for something and expect to get it every time. He and I have nice talks, so I'll approach the subject at anohter time with him.

Whew!

Thanks for letting me vent

Perhaps this thread would have gone a bit better (though I think that everyone aired their views respectfully), if Oakley had just stated out front that she needed to vent. We all need to vent occasionally!

Oakley, I'm glad you're back to feeling better about your grandparenting.
I am one of those grandmothers who always has a "surprise" waiting for my only grandson on the guest bed . We are away a lot so this is not a weekly thing but
grandson always runs through the door to check out the bed and see what I got him: sometimes it's clothes and a movie, or books/games. We do activities together also. I am rethinking my strategy now that I have read all of the above but at the same time, I know I'm not going overboard.

Our state has a program where you start paying for college once the child is a year old and you lock in the tuition price at that time. Room and Board, books are not included but basic tutition is. We discussed this with our son and DIL and the other grands and we are doing this for GS. The next child will be handled by the other grands. It is for state schools and if the child decides to go out of state, you only get a % of the money. It can be applied to technical schools, as well and other venues of education.

One last comment for the OP and responders. Everyone's definition of going overboard is going to be different. I'm with Oakley - she didn't feel she was going overboard and felt she has gone along with DS and DILs requests. She was sharing the hurt she felt in her heart and she needed to get those feelings out. I understand that feeling too. So here's a hug for you, Oakley and one for your GS, too!

Sounds like you got things worked out. I might pass on discussing it further with your son and just let things be. Perhaps he thought it was confusing to the kids - opening Christmas presents early.

I do think in place of gifts (other than birthdays and Christmas) that opening an account for them is a good thing - even if the other grandparents have already opened one. I know many couples who do this for their grandchildren.

We all need to vent from time to time!

tina

i probably would pass on 'discussing' it further with your son too... the problem is that what constitutes 'spoiling' a child is subjective and your 'definition' of spoiling might not be his... some things you need to just agree to disagree on and respect his wishes....it's an issue for the parents to discuss and decide on.
it was very nice for your dil to email you- i know i would have really appreciated that too!

T, the responses would still be the same if I said I just needed to vent. Everyone would still throw out their opinions (which is fine) even if they disagreed with me.

My ds and I have a close relationship so it's no problem discussing this with him at another time.

Thank yo Mboston! I needed that. lol

Mitch, we did the same thing! I'd put a new treat on our coffee table and my GS would run for it! My ds never had a problem with that at all. We don't do it as often now since we have an accumulation of toys here at the house.

Last night my dil ended up emailing back and forth for an hour! Not about the spoiling. She said she has a big surprise for me on Christmas. It's not a present and she's not pregnant, but she's really excited!

I'm glad things are back to normal.

oakley it sounds like you have a really nice relationship with your DIL - I'm envious! My mom adored my DH - she even quit smoking for him. He told her she would be the *perfect* MIL if she didn't smoke, she quit and stayed quit even though it never worked before. My MIL told my DH (in front of me when we told her we were engaged) he shouldn't marry me because I'm older than he is, divorced and Jewish. Great start, eh? Aren't you just champing at the bit about the surprise? I would be! If it's not a gift or another baby.......??? Something new in their house that she knows will excite you? Maybe a specific food that you love and she's making special for you? Be sure to come back and tell.

Oakley, anyone here that pays any attention at all, knows how attentive you are to your family. They are lucky to have you. Now I am dying with excitement to find out what the surprise is. You have to share. Promise?

I have not read all the responses, but can I offer you this?

My mom tends to buy my kids tons of junk that ends up all over my house. Sure my kids love it and after a day the novelty fades and it ends up in a bin somewhere or even vacuumed up if it's little. She does NOT respect my wishes when I ask her not to do this and she does it drives me insane.

Here are some things I can never get enough of for my children:

Books. My children love them, I love reading them. My mother never read to us as children. My dear grandmother did, and I have wonderful memories of her reading all sorts of stories to me. One of my earliest memories is sitting on her lap hearing the story of Hansel and Gretel.
One of my most prized possessions is a Mother Goose book, inside my grandmother wrote a little note to me on the day I was born. I will cherish it always.

Buy your grandchildren books, and read the wonderful stories to them. Inscribe them, because one day those words you write to those children will be priceless.

Oh polly, your post brought tears to my eyes. And thank you for recommending books. I was starting to feel like a parrot. LOL!

Books are awesome. I read books to my kids every single day and they *never* went to bed without a story. Even after they were reading, I read them books that were more advanced than their reading ability.

I didn't spoil them with lots of toys but I promised them I would always buy them a book to read. Now I have a library that I treasure.

mboston, please reconsider the big wheel if your son wants to give the first bike. Big wheels are bikes-at least I considered it so when I bought one for my son back in 1982. Your gift could be misinterpreted which would be such a shame.

They approved the big wheel before I bought it last May.

Sounds like a bunch of loved & cherished children to me!

Too many responses to read so if this has already been said, sorry for the repeat. My in-laws are the very best! Where do I begin? From birth, they met my children every step of the way. For example, if one of my boys was interested in dinosaurs, they came over with a book on dinosaurs, found an exhibit of dinosaurs, or made dinosaur cookies with him. They went to soccer games, baseball games, lacrosse games, basketball games, regattas, school concerts and plays. They visit them at their colleges and meet them for lunch in the City. They are just THERE for them. In the beginning, I think I needed to relax and realize that they were not trying to take over. What a gift they have been. Good luck with this. What I learned from my in-laws is that I want to be an "experience" grandma. My in-laws have given my children many things, but mostly they have given them many experiences and time.

I wish we had a like button here. There are so many responses I love.