chamberry

this appears to be Carrier's new two stg HP introduction, Comfort Series 16.

3494530 Active Systems COMFORT 16 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HCB648A30 CSPH*6012A** 58CV(A,X)110-20 47000 12.50 15.50 48000 9.00 29600 1 HRCU-A-CB 327 961

three issues to point out.

1.your furnace is the Infinity 80%-why not the MVC 95% mdl?

2.I don't like the idea of purchasing an Infinity Furnace without the Infinity controller.

3.Finally the Comfort series is not supported by the Infinity platform. You lose some diagnostic performance. If you do decide on the Infinity controller, then I would consider an upgrade price on either the Performance 15 "H" mdl HP or the Performance 16 HP.

IMO

tigerdunes,

What do you perceive as the difference between the Comfort series and the Performance series? What is the cost difference? Is it worth the extra benefit? How does one make that judgement?

If I don't purchase an Infinity controller, why then would I step up to the more expensive MVC 95% model?

Do you have any idea where I live or what my winter heating needs are?

Do you know what my heating costs are? Nat gas versus electric?

How can you pontificate in so many threads without the required information to make a meaningful contribution to the subject matter?

You obviously like to hear yourself talk and think you are an expert on many subjects, but you reveal yourself to be a master at none!

You come across as a know it all, but you show your ignorance in most of your posts!

chambery

my error.

the system quoted is wonderful and you have an excellent price.

and yes, I did see where you lived.

I have no problem with an 80% eff furnace paired with a high eff HP.

The fact remains that the Infinity controller is the best available in the residential market. Yes, it is pricey compared to others but you lose capabilities of a nice system without it.

and yes, I did see you lived in Central Arkansas.

I'll stay with the suggestions that I pointed out.

Good Luck

Yes it's a fair price,
you had a dozen bids so I'm pretty sure you know now what a fair price is for your area.

Bryant - Carrier = same thing. I talk Bryant but it's the same.
If I were going to buy or sell a 2 speed, hybrid heat, or zone controlled system I would want the Evolution/Infinity controlled system.

The Evolution/Infinity controls are far superior, they are data interfaced between each component which will maximize the control of your system, they are also much easier to set up with no special wiring so really it can't be controlled wrong unlike the comfort series. Plus they have diagnostics displays. The Evolotion/Infinity control will log hrs of run time for each stage of cooling and heating.
It is also a much easier to set up for hybrid heat!

the comfort model does not come with a sound blanket and I would suggest if you get this model you purchase the add on sound blanket. $150 cost

The thermidistat is good but it is not as good as the Evolution/Infinity controller.

There is another Bryant/Carrier 2 speed system that is coming to the market, a 2 speed preferred/performance series. It may be out now I will check my area tomorrow.

Your furnace is infinity ready so I would suggest looking into that upgrade to the new performance 2 speed heat pump 25HPA6(Carrier) or 265ANA(Bryant) and go with the Evolution/infinity controller.

Hopefully this A/C company will give you a great deal after Rebates if so it would be well worth it not only to you but to the A/C company.
1. It's more quiet. 2nd it's a better built system, 3rd it qualifies for a rebate and Tax Credit, 4th Carrier credits A/C company with selling a better system.
5. Superior Control and easier to set up has diagnostic features which means less technical work for them.
There is NO Factory rebate on a comfort series models, So I don't know where you got a manufacture rebate mark down in your price? I'd say it's more like the dealer rebate.

I fully agree with the comments made above. My opinion, and you may not like it, is that you're going halfway toward a an upper-end system. I personally am more a proponent of simpler single-stage systems, maybe with a variable speed indoor unit. But if you want to be fancy and have 2-stage indoor/outdoor units, I would say use the Infinity system and make use of its features. The Comfort model was made strictly for tax credit purposes and is best described as a bare bones 2-stage system lacking many features. As said above, the Infinity systems pretty much configure themselves, so much less room for error on behalf of the installers (its functionality and diagnostic capabilities are also well worth having). I've seen a few of them in operation in other homes and have been nothing but impressed. However, if the price of the Infinity outdoor unit is the limiting factor here, why not consider a Performance series single-stage unit with Infinity interface, still fully communicating. If your ductwork is way undersized, the Infinity system will quickly let you know - that's one nice feature of the system. Let me know if you want me to clarify anything I've said here. Please don't shoot back. :)

classicdave,
ryanhughes,

Thanks for your input.

I looked into the 25HPA6 although it will not qualify for the tax credit with less than a 28CVA135-22 furnace. I am already over sized at 110k.

However, the 25HPA6 does match up for the tax credit with a 58PH110-20, a single stage furnace with an ECM blower. Your thoughts on that combo?

You guys are saying that regardless of the furnace I go with, the Infinity tstat is still the best choice. Will other Carrier tstats handle the duel fuel setup and automatic changeover, and handle 2 stage cooling and heating, just without the bells and whistles? Do the bells and whistles improve ease of use, improve efficiency and comfort, or actually save money on utility bills? I am not picking up the distinctions, sorry to be slow on the uptake here.

If I understand what you guys are suggesting, my best choice for a more basic system is the Comfort HP and the 58PH110-20 with a more basic tstat, while my best choice for a higher end system would be the Performance HP with the Infinity furnace and Infinity tstat?

Where would the Performance 25HPA6 with a 58PH110-20 fall in this spectrum, and with which tstat?

My choices and decision are influenced by cost/benefit analysis. I must decide if Higher End is worth the added cost to achieve greater comfort over Basic. Would you agree with that or have any comments on the idea?

Thanks

Ok, check with the distributor in my local area, 25HPA6(Carrier) and 266ANA(Bryant) factory had started producing these systems in mid September but every distributor is working out the buy price. Then once they get their cost they will sell it to us Dealers/Contractors to then sell it to you.

Next,
The 25HCB6(Carrier) or 226ANA(Bryant) does have a rebate when matched with a qualifying furnace or Air Handler, it is small manufacture rebate but there is a rebate on the system.

58PH110-20 Furnace is not infinity controlled this would rule out getting the 25HPA6 with that furnace.

I have looked up and down and sideways at your options with the tax credit and valued cost.
this is my opinion.

I think an Evolution/infinity controlled hybrid Heat system has much more of an upside than the 2 speed compressor 25HCB system with a themidistat you are looking at.

Here is my opinion because of the tax credit and value of each component.

Performance Hybrid Heat Series System with Infinity Control
25PHA548H30 - Performance Single Speed Heat Pump
CSPH6012A - Horizontal Evap coil
58CV*090-16 - 90,000 btu infinity furnace
Infinity Controller -Preferred with Hybrid Heat
meets tax credit

I agree with the above (25HPA548H heat pump and 58CVA090-16 furnace, plus Infinity controller) would be a great system. It does not have 2-stage cooling, but to me, this isn't a big downside. With the Infinity control, the system should do a more than adequate job controlling humidity and indoor comfort. That is the direction I'd lean--either the single-stage Performance 15 heat pump with the Infinity interface/furnace or the two-stage Infinity heat pump and indoor furnace/interface. If you are set on having 2-stage cooling (which I probably would not have installed in my own home, because I prefer simplicity/better upfront cost of single-stage units), then I would see if the budget allowed for the complete Infinity system. If tax credit plays a major role in the decision, then I believe your only option for 2-stage is to stay with the Comfort series unit in your original post.

No doubt, a fine solution!

Here's the rub, I am more interested in the 2 stage heating due to the degree days between 42 and 68 here in Arkansas. My total utility bills avg $290 in the winter heating season (about 3 months) and $130 in the cooling season (about 5 months). So it would seem my savings opportunity is to reduce my heating cost and a two stage heat pump would seem to be the solution, especially if gas therm costs outpace electricity therm costs for the next 10 to 20 years.

Maybe the best solution is to wait out the winter (A/C is on the fritz, gas furnace works fine) and see if Carrier, or another mfgr. develops a "Performance 2 stage HP and smaller Infinity capable furnace" like tax credit qualifying system before cooling season begins.

In the meantime, I am going to keep looking for ways to plug holes in my envelope, cost-effectively.

classicdave,
ryanhughes,

You guys have my attention on the Infinity tstat. What are the tangible benefits? What does it do to improve system performance? or ease of use?

I'm not expecting to control anything other than a duel fuel system, and I hope I would not need the diagnostics. I know it's not a lot of money, about $350 I think, so cost would not be a big deal. Looking through the Carrier consumer brochures and tstat docs, I can't intuit much difference in function or benefit. It appears to me that any tstat that controls 2 stage duel fuel systems would be fine. I do read where the Infinity is easier to setup, but I'm sure that I can read a user's manual and get the results I desire as long as the tsat's functional ability is there. In a nutshell, why would I really, really need or want the Infinity tstat?

What will it do for my needs that other tstats will not?