I remodeled my kitchen in great part to close the gap between stove and fridge. And then I still couldn't get them close enough and added fridge drawers (which I wanted anyway, but didn't want the island they're in) to close it up more. I prefer a distance from fridge to sink to a distance from stove to sink.

Have you tried cooking on a hot plate on the peninsula to see if it works for you?

Have you posted your layout? There are lots of excellent eyes here who can help you come up with a more function plan.

In general, most people don't like to have their cooktops where there's seating. How wide is the peninsula?

How are you going to vent?

I actually thought of the hot plate idea, but need to go purchase one. The peninsula will be appx. 26" deep then I will lift the breakfast bar appx. 7" above that . It will be 18" deep.

As to venting, I will use a downdraft. I know that's not ideal, but I've used one for 20 years, so I'm used to it.

I had thought of putting in a range with a hood, but there are problems with that. DH refuses for us to use propane (our heating source) to cook with. My only requirement for cooking equipment is that I have a grill. My JennAir gets used 3-4 times per week. All ranges that include a grill are either gas or dual fuel. Even if I can find equipment to meet my needs this would put the fridge across the aisle from my kitchen.

As to posting the layout I've only got it down on graph paper. I don't know how to use CAD, but would give an online program a try if someone could make a suggestion? That's probably my best option for getting some good help!

If you're going to buy one, it's a great chance to try out induction if you're thinking of it (and have an iron or steel pan).

Graph paper is great! It's just the approximate measurements in scale that we need, not CAD drawings! You can scan or take a digital picture of your layout and post that. Just make sure that the lines are dark and the labels are big enough to read online.

The instructions are in the READ ME thread. There's also a lot of really good information in there to help with your design. Make sure to look at the Sweeby Test.

It sounds like your peninsula measurements will work, though still has the trek to the fridge problem.

My own druthers would be to have the cooktop under a vent, especially with grilling so much. I'm hoping maybe the collected Forum wisdom can find a better way to rearrange things to make it all work better for you. If there is a good place to put it against a wall, I'd consider putting in a slightly smaller induction cooktop, with a separate built in grill. I did that with a Wolf gas module. That kind of solution might not be in your budget, but it's worth looking at. Sometimes a little effort and creativity can make marvelous things happen.

Ok, I hope this works!

{{!gwi}}

This is my existing kitchen layout. My one & only need is to move the cooktop out of the island. Everything lands on top of it. The island needs to be workspace only. I must keep the existing cabinets, but can move things around. As to appliances my only desire is to still have a built in indoor grill. I was going to put the cooktop over on the peninsula, but as you can see it's about 11.5 ft from that side of the kitchen to the other. I've been dwelling on this for two months. I would really appreciate any and all suggestions as I'd like to stop planning and get to remodeling. Thanks!

Well, what about losing the peninsula and using those cabinets for longer island with seating. Then put the frig on the end by the DW and put the cooktop on the leg with the existing frig. Is the room wide enough for island seating?

I like Houseful's suggestion! It would also be more convenient to have the fridge closer to the dinette. But it looks like the bigger island would swallow up too much of the dinette.

Is the pantry a walled closet or a cabinet?

Since the squares didn't come through I'm using my finger to measure and it looks like you could put a fridge there if it's a movable cabinet. Then it would be accessible to both the DR and dinette. But that puts it farther from the sink which isn't great either.

I loved my old tripple sink and I love my new plant window, so I totally get those as the focus of your kitchen, but centered as they are they do eat up a lot of prime real estate. Seeing your plan, I get why just moving the cooktop to the peninsula looks good to you.

I'd still do the test with the hot plate and people seated at the peninsula, and a whole cooktop drawn in painter's tape, to make sure how comfortable you are with this.

My dear friend has the same basic layout as your current kitchen, but with the dining room door next to the back door passage, and a run of counter between the fridge (where your chimney is) and oven stack. It's just as easy to set things down there as on the island/cooktop. There's also a little "desk" area just by the door where mail junk accumulates. So I'm wondering if maybe dealing with the path of stuff coming in is more the issue?

How useful is the pantry? Because I'm wondering if you moved the oven to where the pantry is, then extended the uppers and lowers on the back door side, you'd provide a good setting stuff down counter that would help keep junk off the island. You'd lose some storage at waist high, which is some of the most useful storage, and some depth in the upper, but it might be worth the trade off. It would put the MW a little farther from the fridge for zapping sandwiches and leftovers, but it's not that far, and it's closer to the seating. It would mean doing carpentry on the pantry if it's cabinetry, or adding in some to that corner if not, but, again, it might be worth it. Worth a think through anyway.

Houseful, your suggestion would look lovely! Unfortunately, I have two issues that present a problem: 1) you could then see the fridge from the front door (I should have marked that!) 2) I must keep my existing tile floor as its too expensive to replace (it runs everywhere - dinette, sunroom, kitchen, laundry, hall to back door & guest bath). I just measured and the distance from cooktop to fridge would still be over 11 feet. ARG! You can see my dilema. In the last two months my friends & I have come up with all sorts of layouts, but one leg of the triangle is always too long!

As to the stuff "landing" on the island cooktop I should have said food. If someone wants to make a sandwich it comes out of the fridge & onto the cooktop, groceries same thing etc. There is only 10" on either side of the cooktop which is not enough. My latest thought was to keep the cooktop where it is (cringe!) get a counter depth refrigerator and extend the island countertop over appx. 8". Then I would have 18" on that side. I also thought that if I didn't get a side by side this time and the door was hinged on the left then you would automatically be on the correct side to place things on the 30" counter beside the fridge.

Pllog, the panty is walled. I will think about your ideas there. The painter's tape is a great idea! If I do actually place the cooktop there I will lift the breakfast bar. Do you think it would still be a potential problem for seating there with the counter lifted?

Given that you really can't change your layout, I'd leave the fridge where it is and put refrigerator drawers in the island or the peninsula. Many people on this site have them near their prep/cook space and find them very convenient.

Did you install the floor? Can you lift up the island at all and see if it runs underneath?

Can there be photos? of the existing ref wall and the dining room wall?

The one thing I'd like to comment on is your desire to get an indoor grill. You mentioned that you would be venting with a downdraft. Is the downdraft vent for that grill? I seriously doubt you will be happy grilling indoors with only a downdraft to vent. Grills put off WAY more smoke, steam and grease than any range or cooktop you could ever want to use. Without a good hood, I think your whole kitchen will end up a mess.

I like the refigerator drawer idea! I hadn't thought of that.

As to the grill with downdraft, I've had it for 20 yrs. without too much trouble. I must have gotten one of JennAir's best, because it appears no one likes them here.

As to the floor, I watched the tile guy myself, so it is not under any cabs unfortunately.

I cannot post pics now as I'm at my office, but will try tomorrow.

Does anyone here have a triangle this large? Do you mind the distance? Were you to remodel/build would you scale it down?

Ah, yes, I noticed the part about the same cabinets, but missed the "same layout" part. Sorry.

Do you think you can borrow a few inches from the dining room and recess the frig over on that wall?

Houseful, do you mean recess the fridge where the oven/micro are now? A counter depth would fit there without the need to recess. I had acutally toyed with this idea. If I moved the 30" of cabinets to the right of the fridge into the current fridge location I could put in a range with hood. I love this idea, but for two things. 1) I cannot find an all electric range with grill (DH is refusing for us to use propane to cook!) 2) I would still have one leg of the work triangle over 11 ft. ARG!!!!

Which leg would be over 11? I'm confused about the grill. What would be the source of heat for the grill? Obviously, I don't know about anything other than electric.

Kay1, your kitchen is so large, try thinking zones...clean up, prep, cooking and baking. If you can set up each zone to function well, you won't have a large triangle to worry about.

I liked my old Jenn-aire and thought the downdraft that came with it worked fine. I guess you can't get them anymore. Someone already mentioned induction and it really is worth looking into. It has a lot of power so you can get a grill pan very, very hot. Portable units are only about $100 if you want to play around with one to see if you like it. The downside is that they are still expensive (though getting cheaper) and you need magnetic cookware. I loved my portable and had my heart set on an induction range but the only one available at the time was way too expensive and DH insisted on having fire.

I can see the problem. The island is so convenient, it is just so easy and tempting to do stuff there. Now, in the good old days, this would not have been a problem, because there was Right and Wrong and Rules and Discipline and, by God, No Durned Prepping On The Cooktop. But, sigh, today it's all about self-esteem and contextual value referentials and, even well-bred people are making sandwiches on cooktops in even the best of homes.

I see two possible solutions for you.

The first solution is to move your family and cooktop to a community where the old values and discipline are still held dear. The Amish, say. Or maybe the Sicilian mafia. First time a sandwich making on cooktop: a finger. Second time: no third time.

The second solution is to move your refrigerator to the "oven/micro" location, move the cooktop to the "refrigerator" location where it can also have a proper vent for grilling, and find other spots for the oven and micro - in the island, maybe, or combine oven with cooktop as range. Now you have the island free to do what comes naturally. It is centrally located to refrigerator and sink and cooktop which makes the distances less of a chore. It might want to be a bit smaller, to be less of a barrier, so if you can find a few pieces of tile that match . . .

Oh, I don't understand where you will get an electric cooktop with a grill (I've never seen that) but maybe an induction cooktop with a cast-iron grilling pan would do just fine.

We have our refrigerator across an aisle now and will in the new kitchen too because there's simply no other place to put it. It actually doesn't bother us there at all right now. It may depend on how you cook, but I think it's a good tradeoff for better functionality of the rest of the space.

We do store dry goods and many vegetables and spices on the same side of the aisle as our prep area though---you could consider putting in drawers or canisters for something like that if you wanted to, which might reduce trips to and from the fridge slightly. Again, depends on how you cook and what's typically in your fridge, though.

The last plan you posted looks somewhat like my kitchen, actually. Both my present kitchen and my planned kitchen have this general layout. I've dealt with/cussed at my current kitchen for 3+ years now, and have studied my planned kitchen for some months now with lots of help from GW'ers, so I have some opinions.

1. The "power kitchen" area will indeed be the core of activity - it is prep zone, cook zone, plate zone, beverage zone, wash zone. Which means that, if you have two cooks, they will both be trying to work in the same space. You know what happens when one mafiosi crosses into another mafiosi's territory. You might get to lose that finger after all. This may happen with Amish too, I don't know.

2. You can solve that problem by moving activities out of that core zone. I'm going to move wash out (via a second sink), beverages out (via storing coffee/tea fixings and glassware over a counter elsewhere), and heat/reheat out (via moving microwave elsewhere). You have much more space than I do, so you should be able to move activities elsewhere as well.

3. The distance from refrigerator to prep zone matters a lot or a little, depending on how and what you cook. Some people are super organized, and make one trip around the food storage zones (refrigerator, pantry), collecting stuff, then bring it all to the prep zone and work happily. Others - like me - are constantly criss-crossing the kitchen, rummaging and swearing. I'm hoping to solve this problem by storing small amounts of the common prep stuff (shallots, garlic, ginger, corn starch, butter, spices, etc) in a cabinet and small undercounter fridge by the sink, so that I only have to travel to the refrigerator for the big stuff. You could do the same - or, be super organized - or, do your prep on the side of the island which is already convenient to the refrigerator and pantry. The only thing not immediately at hand would be water. It seems silly to have a little prep sink n the island when you already have a triple sink, but if you're like me and reach for water every couple of minutes while prepping, you might consider it.

4. Traffic. In (my) perfect world, all work zones in the kitchen would be roped off and only you and your helpful sous-chef children (why should corporations get all the child labor?) would be admitted. But that's hard to achieve. I guess it depends on how much traffic you get along the dining room side of the kitchen, and how sociable a cook you are.

Yes, as long as the DW is on the right side of the sink (i.e., not in the path b/w the cooktop and sink). IMHO, it is superior to the "cooktop in the peninsula (or island)" plan. Safer, more effective/less expensive venting, more functional.

Oh, and be sure to have at least 18" (24" would be better) b/w the cooktop and left edge of the counter. Hmmm...that's going to be a major thoroughfare, so I would go with 24", if possible. You should have plenty of room...24" cab/counter + 36" cooktop + 6" cab/counter + 36" susan. Round the corner to 33" of cab/counter to the sink (nice size workspace!), etc. If the cooktop is wider, then you may have a less workspace & safety margin.

BTW...regardless of "training" or "discipline", that cooktop in the island is also a problem b/c there's no workspace around it, no real emergency landing space, and no safety buffer...so all around it's a great idea to get it out of the island! If you're going to grill, then I would strongly urge to not have seats behind it (if you put it in the peninsula) unless you have at least 24" b/w the back of the cooktop and the overhang edge...true grilling means lots of smoke, splattering, and heat (and good food!)

Do you have room in that side hall that leads to the Guest Bath/Backdoor for a Message Center or some kind of "drop zone"? That would go a long way to alleviating the junk collection in the kitchen.

For a discussion about work triangles and zones, see the thread linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Death to the Work Triangle??