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charlikin

Countertops installed - need advice!

17 years ago

Hi all - the countertops finally went in today. Just a couple of issues which I hope are minor... I guess that's where I need the reality check! They're quartz counters (Zodiaq) in a 7x10 galley kitchen with a doorway at one end and a window at the other.

(1) The side opposite the sink is a long strip wedged between the broom closet and the wall with the window. It came up 1/4" short at the window end. The installer said I could either backsplash that window wall (which I wasn't planning to do), or I could put "paintable caulk" there, and the painter would just go over it. (The paint will be a smokey blue, btw.)

(2) I have a SS Blanco sink. The Blanco template recommended a negative reveal, and the guy who came out to template also sold me on the benefits of a negative reveal. But the sink hole came out with a slight positive reveal. Are positive reveals bad?

The counters look great otherwise, and I hate to hold up my kitchen's completion any longer if it's not necessary. (We started work in early October and then had a big delay because of a mess-up with the cabinets...)

The tile guy's supposed to come tomorrow to do the backsplash, so I have to make some quick decisions! Does it sound like the countertops are okay?

Advice please!!!

Kitchen with countertops:

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Gap in corner:

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Sink reveal:

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Comments (26)

  • 17 years ago

    Get them back there and have them redo it. You paid a pretty penny for those counters. It should be done right. They may be counting on the fact that you're tired and will give in if they put up some resistance. That's the kind of job you might get if YOU measured. That's not what you expect if THEY did the measuring. Call them back now and don't let them tell you they can't come for another few days. Tell them to come back now!

  • 17 years ago

    I think it looks great! It's very difficult to put quartz tops in 'wall-to-wall' and I think they did a really good job. The sink looks great too. I personally don't like negative reveal. Did Blanco really recommend it? What are the advantages that you've heard? I like your sink the way it is....installed almost flush.

    That's just my opinion.
    Kompy

  • 17 years ago

    I think it looks good. As Kompy said, many people prefer a slightly positive reveal- practically, I'd guess it protects the edges of your counters a little more. As for the gap in the counter- I personally wouldn't want a painted caulk finish- I'd go for at least one run of tile- Would they give you a small credit on your counters to pay for the extra tiling cost? I think that would be fair.

  • 17 years ago

    Oldalgebra, there's no way they're coming back today - they're about two hours away from me (assuming no traffic). The installer said his supervisor won't review it until he brings the paperwork back to the office tomorrow morning, so I don't think they would come till next week.

    Kompy, the Blanco paper template showed a negative reveal - it didn't explain why. The countertop templater said negative was better because you don't see the silicon around the edge (especially if it gets gunky-looking over time), and you can just sweep crumbs into the sink without them getting caught around the edge. He pretty much sold me on the concept, so I was very surprised when they installed the sink and it turned out to be a positive reveal after all (albeit a very slight one).

    I don't know if it was a templating error - when they came back to retemplate after my cabinet fiasco, they had lost the paper template that came with my sink, but they said they could look it up on the computer.

    I'm glad you think this (and the 1/4" gap) isn't a problem! Have you ever used this "paintable caulk"? I've put a few of my backsplash tiles up against the back wall to see if I want to tile it, but it isn't really the look I wanted. Also, I'd have to tile that wall on both sides of the window, of course, and on the other side I only have an 8" wide strip of countertop next to the stove. I'd hate to lose *any* of that to tile!

  • 17 years ago

    Firstly I think it looks great! I have a negative reveal and find that the water gets under there and still needs to be "managed". I was actualy thinking that perhaps I should have a positive reveal just food for thought.

    How long is that continuous piece? I was told to reduce my island from 10' to 9' in order to accomodate the size of the slab of stone...my point is that it may not have been a "mistake" just the way it had to be finished becaue of the stone.

    This does not change the facts but may help the feeling that they did a bad job.

    Last comment...if you really feel strongly about it, change it.

    Good luck

  • 17 years ago

    My walls are super-uneven and I had some gaps even wider than that. We used the caulk that matched the grout color since I did tile everywhere and that covered the gaps. I wouldn't tile if you don't want to. In my opinion, caulk would work there since it isn't a very visible spot...no one is ever likely to see it. (except you and the TKO of course)

    I like the sink. I like a flush reveal best, and then a slight positive like yours. I insisted mine wouldn't be negative! It looks very nice

  • 17 years ago

    I'd caulk the gap if you keep it.

    No advice really but it looks like you've put together a really great kitchen. Love the galley and yours has a nice layout. And great choice of materials.

  • 17 years ago

    What backsplash were you planning? If you don't put any backsplash to the right of your stove, how are you going to keep the spaghetti sauce off of your wall? I think you might want to tile the side walls. If you were going to tile all the way up to the upper cabinets, you could tile up six inches or so on the front part of the sides until you get to the cabinets, then tile up full-height. If you were just going to go up part way, stick with that height. You would need to do the range side and the side with the gap, but not the other counter ends since you have wood there.

    In the other hand, if you caulk it, it is in a very inconspicuous spot, so I think you will be fine.

    I think the sink will be fine, also.

    I remember how long you worked on this layout. It looks terrific!

  • 17 years ago

    Is it really 1/4 short. The picture makes it look smaller. If smaller they should have caulked it. I just had my Granite put in on Tues. The caulked around the back, next to wall and at all sides. If it is 1/4 or more, they need to get another Zodiac and cut again. You shouldn't be expected to cover their mistake with tile and your own grout.

    I don't notice the sink reveal. It looks pretty. I'd be sure that they sealed around the sink. With the lack of caulking, I'd be concerend if they did the silicone sealing.

    I like the counter you chose. It looks really good in your kitchen.

  • 17 years ago

    I think you're supposed to have a bit of space between the (solid surface) counter & the wall in situations like yours where the counter is trapped between the wall & cabinets on the other end of the run. Buildings move around, expand/ contract, settle and something rigid & brittle like a granite countertop could very well break under the pressure.

    When you're ready to paint, caulk the crack with 'painter's caulk' or any 'paintable' latex caulk and bring the paint down to cover the caulk when you cut in.

  • 17 years ago

    Although 1/4" isn't all that much, and the reveal looks OK, it's not what you wanted and not what you paid for. The sink I could probably live with.....the gap I could not. I got wall to wall installation with my granite, and the gap is non-existent. You should not have to cover their templating mistake with chalk.

  • 17 years ago

    I think it all looks great. I agree with astridh that if you don't tile to the right of the stove you'll get food splashes -- grease at the very least -- on the wall there and so tile on the opposite side of the window would look balanced.

    My sink reveal is almost exactly like yours, which was what I wanted. My fabricator gave me the same line about the silicone showing and getting "gunky" but after six months it all looks good. I never noticed the silicone and it's a breeze to keep clean, not a crumb trap at all.

    Your kitchen is looking great.

  • 17 years ago

    My old kitchen had a positive reveal and it quite gunky. Regardless of daily sink cleaning the caulk would end up going black with mold or mildew or whatever nasty stuff. I replaced the silicone caulk at least 3 times over a few years and then finally gave up when I realized I was going to redo.

    When I did my new kitchen I specified a negative reveal and I'm very happy I did.

    anita

  • 17 years ago

    Again, when it's wall-to-wall, like yours is, it's tough. Add in the fact that you have about 3/4" or 1" thick window trim in there...I still think they did a pretty good job. I would let it go. Then again, I'm not a huge perfectionist.

    One more question...is the gap all along the edge? Or does the top meet the wall at the front edge?

    I see that you're not done painting....can you try to build up that section of wall with some more spackling compound? I'm not a drywall or paint person, so maybe that advice is stupid advice. It would probably be very difficult to do with your tops installed. But thought I'd throw it out there.

  • 17 years ago

    Dulcinea, the countertop is about 100" long - so that's 8'4". The gap is exactly 1/4". I wish it were slightly narrower - then I wouldn't think twice about it. It's not a prominent spot - it's all the way at the end so I don't think you'd even notice it if you were standing in the doorway (which is the only place for guests to stand in this tiny kitchen ;-)).

    Okay, I just spoke to my KD - at first she sounded kind of alarmed, but I sent her photographs, and she agrees with kompy that, because it's going "wall-to-wall", this is about the best they can do. The thing is that they had to tilt it to get it in because of the window frame, and when they tilt it lengthwise, it gets slightly longer on the diagonal. So if it were 1/4" longer, they might not have been able to wedge it in. (Darn window frame - it wasn't there originally, but the carpenter decided to build it without asking me first. I had mixed feelings about it, but decided to keep it because it looked nice and made the window look bigger. But it's caused all sorts of problems. Grrr.)

    ANYWAY - I think I'm going to force myself to relax about the gap. I'll caulk it and stick to my original backsplash plans.

    Raehelen, I considered the single row of tile, but I'm not sure I like the look. Plus, the top edge of the tile would be unfinished! (It's a light tan porcelain tile, 3x6 brick pattern.) That would be true, I realize, if I tile up to the bottom of the upper cabinets as well. And I don't want to tile up the entire wall...

    Astridh, I have 8" between the stove and the wall! Can spaghetti sauce fly that far? (LOL!) Okay, I'll have to cook the spaghetti sauce on the leftmost burner - that should give me enough distance. (Uh, this may determine what kind of paint I use... eggshell or matt. Or maybe spaghetti-sauce-colored paint. Has anyone ever considered this as a solution to the splatter issue???)

    Nutbunch, they did silicon around the sink, and also where the countertop meets the wood fridge panel and broom closet.

    Ci_lantro, you are a genius. What a perfect rationalization for the gap! I love it!

    Regarding the sink reveal... I think I would have preferred the negative reveal (for the reasons nomoreblue mentions), but this looks nice too (and obviously a lot of people prefer a positive reveal). Thanks, everyone, for your comments!

    Have I mentioned how much I love this forum? :-)

  • 17 years ago

    With your window trim and the cabinet above restricting the way they could angle the piece in there, I'm amazed that they have that small of a gap. I think it looks fine.

    With my granite where the corners and backsplash meet, they put a type of caulk that looks for all the world like the granite. Sort of granular looking but smooth if that makes any sense. Ask Bill V if he knows what that might be. I'd rather use a caulk that matches your quartz than something that you'd be painting.

    I like the sink reveal!

  • 17 years ago

    Well, you're going to have to do something on that range side wall for fireproofing, so you might as well tile it and have the matching tile on the wall opposite. The sink looks great. It's an even reveal, and that's the main thing. I personally prefer a positive reveal like yours as it is a big gentler on the edge of the countertop from banging things into the sink.

  • 17 years ago

    It looks great ! I have the BM matte which contains ceramic. You can scrub it to your hearts content...after it cures and it will still look the same after years of abuse. Mine is 2 yrs old and we have no backsplash at all anywhere. The stirfry and deep fat fryer all do their thing and I simply use the dishcloth and a quick wipe with suds and that is that.

    I love the colors and the sink. I personally agree about neg reveal but yours looks wonderful ! c

  • 17 years ago

    Fireproofing??? No one mentioned fireproofing to me! Eek.

    (Just added small fire extinguisher to my HD shopping list...)

  • 17 years ago

    I think the sink looks great, it's always a bit of a shock when it isn't what you thought it would be (been there). In terms of appearance I like the look of backsplashes on enclosed cabinet runs where they end in the corners. There is nothing wrong with bringing it around but you now need more than standard tile or at least tile edging etc. which you hadn't planned on, I also think with such little wall surface having that wall just be paint is going to make it stand out. I don't know building\fire codes in your area but I'm surprised you need something fire rated on an external wall and I thought many kinds of ranges can be installed 0" from combustible wall surfaces (electric ones anyway).

    My Mom has very different materials than in your kitchen but one thing I am really happy with in my Mom's kitchen reno is deciding to use the BM Aura so we could use a flat sheen.

    You can also get tintable caulk (Red Devil) if you think paintable isn't going to work for you. You just tint it with your paint. For some stupid reason I'm thinking this might matter but I haven't found a store who carries it here yet.

    It really is looking great.

  • 17 years ago

    I think your kitchen is already looking quite nice and I'd definitely not sweat over the counter gap. Personally I like the strategy to caulk/ grout to match the counter vs. painting over the gap with wall color; I think it would call more attention to the gap if it were painted to match the wall. I'd just tape a nice sharp line and keep the paint on the vertical surface.

    I'd also just paint the window wall with a good quality paint and not wrap the tile around; I think the room will look more open that way.

    I'm anxious to see your backsplash next!

  • 17 years ago

    Looks great
    You'll love tile on your backsplash it will be the icing on the cake
    Maybe you can get a listello or decorative tile that looks like a chair rail to match and put that on window wall to die into the window trim
    maybe one tile high and cap it to look like molding
    paint the wall underneath the same color?

  • 17 years ago

    We had the same problem w/ gap in corner. This is our solution for the gap. The tile, not the alcohol ;)


    We tiled the whole back wall and went up 2 rows for the other side walls.

  • 17 years ago

    Ok, read your post more thoroughly and see you don't want tile. My sister has used the paint caulk in her bathroom and once she had all her accessories and things in, you would never know about the gap unless it was pointed out. Maybe you can ask for a partial reduction in price in lieu of a whole new slab.

  • 17 years ago

    Wait, but I like the alcohol solution!!!

    My contractor said he's going to put some brown caulk there, as close a match to the countertop as he can get. He thought that would be better than paintable caulk, or than the clear silicon kind. The backsplash just went up this morning... looks good, albeit boring. Maybe I'll like it better once it's grouted. The tile guy does do nice work. :-)

  • 17 years ago

    It's fine. Ci lantro is exactly right. Houses breathe. Expand and contract and all that good stuff. Caulk is the way to go if you don't want tile.

    P.S. Stick with a white sauce when your making pasta :)