Are you considering landing?

Guideline: Include at least:

15â of landing area on the handle side of the refrigerator, or
15â of landing area on either side of a side-by-side refrigerator,
or
15â of landing area which is no more than 48â across from the front of the refrigerator,
or
15â of landing area above or adjacent to any undercounter style refrigeration appliance.

Here is a link that might be useful: illustrated kitchen design rules

Yep, my first reaction is that there is no landing space for either the fridge or the oven. Where are you going to put those hot cookies? Groceries that go into the fridge? I think I'd try to put some landing space next to both fridge and oven, but I'm afraid it might look pretty chopped up. Is the wall oven the only oven, or is the cooktop shown actually a range? If it's a baking oven, you could put it at the other end of the run, since baking prep would probably take place on the island.

Is your pantry cabinet a pair of doors with full-width pullouts? Keep in mind that you will have to open both doors to pull anything out. You might be better off having two separate units, with each side an independent pullout. I'm probably not explaining it very well! See link.

I'm not a fan of angled upper cabinets, but some folks love them. I prefer Easy-Reach uppers for corners.

Are the base cabinets on the fridge wall as deep as the fridge? That would provide a clean look, and additional counter space. The uppers can be deeper as well.

What do you have planned for the deep cabinets above the fridge and oven? That space is useful for tray storage, but you probably don't need that much. I put pull-outs above my fridge, so I can reach almost everything (DH is tall - he can reach everything!) I wouldn't be able to access high, deep shelves without a chair.

Here is a link that might be useful: pull-out pantry

There will be plenty of times that you're going to be going into your oven and someone else is going to want something from the fridge. The more work you're doing (ie holidays) the more it'll happen. I agree with what was said.....you need a landing for groceries and dishes out of the oven. I'd say put the fridge on the other end, but then you won't have a clear shot from your fridge to your sink which I also value.

I think it's worth considering this possibility from left to right--
pantry, fridge, then the glass cabinets, then the wall ovens. This will give you food storage all together, a prep area between (both on the wall and on the island right across from each other) and then the cook zone. I still don't like the oven right in front of that walkway, but it's better to not have the fridge right there. And I think there is a real advantage to get that fridge down away from the main work area so that people can be grabbing a snack or drink without being in your space.
If you were willing to consider a "U" shape at the bottom of your drawing, with a peninsula instead of that island I think it would make your kitchen more functional. I am feeling like that island just doesn't quite fit-- you are trying to cram seating onto it and it just feels like it might possibly clog your flow.

I'd have from L to R oven , glass cabs, fridge and pantry

I agree with swfr that a peninsula instead of an island would be better.

I'll third the suggestions for L to R oven, cabs, fridge, pantry AND also the peninsula instead of the island. The island is trying too hard to be there and is in the way of everything on that other wall without providing much in the way of useful value. Roll that peninsula idea around in your head a bit....

I actually like the island! It gives you more room for the dishwasher...but I would split up the fridge and oven. A great baking area in the middle would be wonderful! Can you separate the pantry into two smaller sections?
{{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

Thanks for the feedback! It's interesting to hear the peninsula suggestions since when I posted looking for layout feedback a few weeks ago, the island plan I posted was favored over the peninsula plan! I have to say that I am feeling frustrated with our space. I know there has to be a good layout somewhere, but I can't seem to find it! The kitchen was originally designed with an island cooktop, and functions fairly well that way. It seems like everything I try to move the cooktop off the island breaks something else that currently works well with our kitchen.

Good points about landing space, thanks! I was thinking the island would serve as that for both the wall oven & the fridge. I currently use the 18" not occupied by the cooktop as landing space for those applicances and it works ok. I was thinking that having an open island space would give me more landing area?

The wall oven is our only oven. Thanks for all the specific suggestions for storage in the overhead cabs on this wall, annkh. I'll revisit those once I have the overall layout pinned down!

Thanks for the plan, Swfr and LavenderLass. I had thought of something similar with moving the oven or fridge to the far left of the fridge wall. But then that appliance would be far from everything else, with the island in the way. Here's a rough overhead view. Does this work, or is the island too much of a barrier? The "wall" at the far left (labeled B) is actually totally open space to our family room.

To everyone who suggested a peninsula plan, I LIKE how that would eliminate all my appliance door opening clearance issues. However, I'm having trouble fitting my appliances into a peninsula plan. Would you run the peninsula off the sink wall or the fridge wall? Do you have any ideas on how I could have seating (just 1 or 2) along a peninsula without interfering with the kitchen table seating? Here's the best I've come up with:

I think the peninsula seats are too close to the kitchen table. With the kitchen table right there, we don't need a lot of seating in the kitchen, but I really want to try and find a way to have space for 1 or 2 counter stools somewhere!

What do you all think of these last two plans I just posted?

thanks! I'm hopeful that, eventually, one of the plans will feel "right". Maybe I do need to give up the idea of counter seating in the kitchen, but I don't want to unless there is no other way to make everything else work.

Michelle

Here is a link that might be useful: original discussion of kitchen layout

The peninsula plan is nice..but the stools seem too close to the table. Have you thought about a banquette on one wall? That would give you a little more space.

I think the peninsula will work better with the fridge on the other end (closer to dining) since no barrier island. The dishwasher can always go on the peninsula, if that's easier. Just leave enough room to stand at the sink and open the DW :)

In your original post, lavendar lass posted the below pic. Could you put the fridge to the right of the sink like it's done in the pic or does the fridge have to stay on the wall it's on?? If you could move it to the right of the sink, you could do a peninsula or an island and it would really free up your floorplan. Plus, it would put the fridge near a landing area for groceries and near the sink for rinsing veggies and such.

I think a peninsula on the sink side would be much more useful for you. Besides, a peninsula on the fridge side would block traffic.

How's this for peninsula seating? If you have backless stools it may work with the kitchen table close to it, assuming you won't have seaters at both places at the same time. If you consider just one seat it may be more comfortable.

I'd have the DW on the peninsula and have the tall appliances as shown in the drawing.

Thank you all SO MUCH! In my rush to post the new layout pictures, I forgot to add in the door that is in the wall behind the kitchen table. It's the only access to our backyard, and is not movable within the scope of our project. Banquet seating for that table would help with a lot of our space issues, but it just won't work with our current door configuration.

I will need to let the peninsula ideas "percolate" in my mind a bit more. The sink's currently centered on the kitchen window, and I am 99% certain I want to keep it that way. That leaves about 4 feet between the right edge of the sink and the end of the wall. I *think* putting the fridge there would feel too crowded. And it would have the DW be right between the sink and the cooktop.

Thanks for suggesting the different peninsula shape, sena01. I'll try taping that out on the floor and see how it works for us.

It's been so helpful to "talk" through different layouts on here! I think my husband's getting tired of all my what-if-we-move-this-there questions.

Michelle

Lucky for you that you are at the remodeling stage, whereas IâÂÂm two years away (when DH retires), although I'm developing a plan already.

Your kitchen is very, very similar to mine, width and length, except that I have no bumpout where your table is, and also have four doorways next to each other on the top left corner of your drawing, two on left wall and two on top. I also have the doorway in the same spot as you on your right wall, , give or take a few inches,with windows in the same locations as yours.

I would not recommend a peninsula. IâÂÂve lived with that layout since I moved here 28 years ago. ItâÂÂs the main reason I canâÂÂt wait to get a new kitchen. The peninsula has been a barrier to walking to and from the kitchen table to the sink, cooktop, and dishwasher.

I am considering a corner cooktop in the corner nearest the sink, with a double oven to the left of it beside the doorway. The sink will remain in the same place, and a banquette will be at the other end of the sink wall, in the area where your bumpout is.

This kitchen size is a challenge, for sure. If the 13' dimension were even one foot deeper, that would help greatly with island seating. I, too, am determined to find a way to make that work with a seat or two just for prepping veggies at the island where I hope to have a small prep sink with disposer. As I'm not getting any younger, I've spent enough years standing and chopping, that I'm ready to sit and chop for a change.

Lynne-in-PA, thanks for sharing your real life experience with a peninsula layout. Was your peninsula on the sink side of your kitchen? I have the same hesitations about switching to a peninsula layout for us, especially with the door to our backyard (and patio & grill that we use all the time spring-fall) right behind the kitchen table. I see how a peninsula would create better work flow while you're *in* our kitchen, but I feel that it would impede flow *into* the kitchen, such as when we're setting/clearing the table, bringing in food from the BBQ, etc. Best of luck with your kitchen planning!

thanks,
Michelle

Michelle,

I am so excited for you, being where I want to be. Please keep me updated on your progress.

Yes, my peninsula is right where you drew yours. I would not do it; you will regret it. I have learned to clear the table by putting things on the peninsula, then walking around it and moving everything again to the sink area. Our kitchen is so old that it has cabinets above the peninsula with doors facing both the sink and table area. We can set the table by reaching for the dishes and glasses from the table side, but those cabinets greatly block the view.

My "dream" kitchen (pictured) has a beverage/snack area that contains an undercounter beverage fridge near the main fridge and a (raised?) microwave. We have a beverage fridge in our family room and I want to get it out of there into the kitchen where we can access glasses and mugs and ice from the door of the main fridge. The coffee maker will be on that counter, keeping people out of the way of the cook.

I tweak this often, so nothing is set in stone. I really want the banquette with additional storage, especially a morgue drawer on the open end of it.

At first I thought that the oven/cooktop/sink area is tight, but I've seen photos of other kitchens with it that way and it's not too bad. Given all the other options I tried, I like this one the best. Everything would be right where I need it and I wouldn't have to traipse all over the kitchen to go from place to place.

The seating at the island might have to be narrowed down to only one seat at the end, but that would be fine just for prep.

Here is our current layout with the peninsula. The refrigerator has to be pulled out past the adjacent wall to allow both doors to open. I have laminate counters and there is no good landing space for the hot oven items except to carry everything across the room to the cooktop. That prompted me to think of something with the cooktop and oven closer together. Also, the range hood doesn't vent to the outside and the corner cooktop will easily remedy that problem.

I don't know what kind of counters I'll end up with in the new kitchen. If I need to cut costs, I am not against laminate again. I have granite in two bathrooms and like my laminate better.

This post was edited by Lynne-in-PA on Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 13:31

Thanks for posting your layouts, Lynne. You're right, our kitchens are remarkably similar! We had a fridge right against the wall in our last house and hated it there -- you're going to gain so much space in your kitchen by being able to push the fridge back all the way!

I agree it's helpful to have the cooktop & oven close together, that's one thing I like about our current layout with the cooktop in the island. If you feel you have enough prep space next to the cooktop, I think your new plan looks like a nice kitchen to cook in. I do notice the cooktop is sitting over the edge of the corner cabinet -- do you think that will be a problem for getting it to fit in? Best of luck with your planning!

Michelle

I should have rotated those drawings 180 degrees to have them line up with yours, Michelle. Oops.

Those cabinet boundaries are preliminary. Actually, I haven't thought about them at all, but since I've seen photos with a similar layout, I assume things can fit. This photo was taken of my TV after I had developed my design. I was shocked to see how similar the L is to my plan and had to take a picture of it. There may be a few less inches between the oven and countertop, but I'll have more space to the left of my cooktop than I have currently.

I can't wait to see how yours turns out. Do you have a timeline?