I've looked at your plan multiple times and I feel a bit bothered by all that space used for the pantry. This is just an idea that I'll throw out there for that space.

You can use some of that space for some cabinetry and a new entrance into the dining room. The very end can be used for pantry. I only put the frig there because you had it there. I was thinking too that some light from the dining room will filter into the kitchen. With some creative cabinet work, you may even be able to disguise that wall by the frig.

Couple of questions:

1) do you really want to take away that space from your DR? I would be ecstatic if I had a DR that size. Could you use some space in your laundry room for pantry items?

2) Is the new pantry going to have an exit on the other end or is their a wall at the end?

Thanks houseful and malhgold for responses.

The current dining room is wasted space. The side where I am debating putting the pantry is dark and feels like empty space. The plans just call for a wall at the end. I had originally debated trying to make some sort of butlers pantry, but it is such a long wall that it didn't seem feasible but I can revisit that option.

Houseful - I like your option...I'll play with that.

The laundry room I'm hoping for will be home to jackets, shoes, backpacks, hats, sports stuff, etc. So not really room for a pantry there. My current pantry isn't really that big, so I don't know that I really need all the space.

thanks again...back to the drawing board.

Oops...Option 3 and 4 are the same! Sure wish there was a delete post option.

Hoping for some help......

oh, just repost the one that should have been above. label it with the #.

do you have any bookshelves/cabinets in your family room? LR?

btw, you know it isn't going to be the perfect kitchen. people building new seldom get that. you have to do the best you can with the space you have. That laundry room door seems really important to you so even tho it'll cut thru your cleaning area and cooking area, I think you should do it. the other ways you lose so much storage space. and this way you can grab a kid running thru and have them unload the dw - lol! unless you do pasta or something else that you need to carry a pot of hot liquid to the sink to drain, it shouldn't be a big problem. buehl, rhome and a few others will jump in and tell you different if they think it is a major danger.

i do hate to see you cut so much of your DR off tho. Kids grow as they get older. a lot. then they are grown and bring home a date for dinner (or dad requests they do). next thing you know you'll have an 'IL' at the table on a regular basis. And don't think those days are too far in the future to think about. They're really just around the corner.
you could make a pantry along that kit/DR wall about 12" deep. floor to ceiling it'd hold a lot of stuff. most food stuffs aren't more than a foot deep.

your corner cab at the wall/peninsula could open into the eating area. a drawer for placemats etc and pull outs or drawers for extra deep storage. or not so deep drawers for canned good storage. the other corner could be a SS or even open into the laundry room as space for boots on the floor and a shelf for baskets (hats, gloves). hooks along the wall for sweaters and coats. some could be lower for the younger kids with a lower shelf over them for their backpacks.

are there 2 openings (windows/doors) in the upper left in the laundry? 1 at the top and 1 to the side?

are those wall ovens in #3 and 4 on the outer wall by the laundry door?

I'm also concerned about making the DR so small. If you have a 72 x 42 (seating for 8)" table in there (think ahead as Desertsteph says) there will be less than 12" to squeeze by when seats are occupied so people will sort of be stuck in their seats during dinner. What about morphing the pantry with Houseful's idea. Instead of building walls, you could do 18"-24" deep, floor to ceiling, built-ins, in a breakfront style ( deeper in the middle, shallower on the sides) across the whole back wall and store a ton of stuff in there. They can be made to look like a part of the house and painted or stained to match your woodwork. It may not cost more than the pantry you're planning by the time you build the walls and add shelves etc but I'll bet it would hold just as much while taking up much less of the existing room. I can't tell if you'd have to move the doorway to the DR closer to the kitchen to have fewer steps to access panty items but you were going to do that anyway. An even cheaper way to do it would be to frame out a 24" deep closet across the back wall and fit it with multiple french doors with glass knobs and fabric panels. That could look really beautiful!

Back to the layouts. Option 1 is clearly the best from a kitchen only perspective however, I think with a little tweaking, option 3, may give you more of what you want. I still think it's possible to put the sink and range (maybe not cooktop) on the same side of the kitchen but that depends on your appliances. How do feel about a range v cooktop? Does it have to be 36"...could you live with 30"? What size/model fridge? How big does your sink have to be? Are you doing a hood or an OTR microwave?

IMO, option 2 doesn't work at all....no work space and narrow aisles.

I may just nix the pantry in the DRIve had issues with it being too big. Not that I couldnt find enough stuff to put in there.

Desertsteph: Thanks for keeping track of this thread and all your input. Im not hoping for perfect, just hoping for something that 6 mos after the fact Im not hitting myself over the head asking why did or didnt I do xxxx!! Moving the LR door was mainly for light (plus giving a home to kid paraphernalia). In this new option below Ive widened the window. In the Laundry there is a 40 inch window over the sink and at that left wall is a door to outside. Yes those are wall ovens in 3 & 4.

Cheri127thanks to you too for all your help. Where would the built ins go? Along the DR wall that shares the wall with the garage? Or the DR/Kitchen eating area wall? I like that.

Houseful: I like the idea of getting the fridge in the wall space and opening up the DR..not sure how. The is a pic below with an idea I like, dont know if I can incorporate it or and if I canhow.

So here is Option 5: Recessing the fridge into the DR, create a new wall, figure out counter/column space next to the fridge (see magazine pic below). For symmetry would I need another counter/column on the other side of the DR entryway? What do I do with the corner space created? Fill in with xxxxx?? Also enlarged the window to move down the sink. If I go with a cooktop, then a MW/Oven combo in the corner. If I go with a range, MW in the corner. Island is not drawn to scale (it doesnt show up when I print it out so I freehand) and it would actually be 36 inches away from the sink and 36+ inches away from the cooktop. Pantry cabinets and other cabinets to the left of the fridge. Zones created (I think). No upper cabs above DW, maybe create a dish drawer to store everyday dishes.

Pic from magazine of idea for cabinet into DR

Sorry to be a downer here, but I don't think you're going to be happy with the most recent layout. First, based on the width of your kitchen, you don't have enough space to do 24" deep cabinetry on both sides and an island with seating. you could get away with an island with no seating(narrow aisles) or make the cabinets behind the island shallower and then possibly have seating. My kitchen is 13.5' wide and we have 12" deep pantry cabs behind our island. The island is 39" deep. Also you are constantly going to be running around the island to get to the frig/pantry area. One way around this is a prep sink in the island, but I'd rather see the frig/pantry down at the other end, but that could block the laundry door.

OK, Cosmocat. I really can't get a feeling for what's most important to you in your new space. Your most recent layout has many of the characteristics you don't like about the kitchen you have now. How about this?

Room for everyone, miles of counter space, seating at the peninsula, laundry door moved. The sink is offset from the window (mine is the same) but you can still enjoy the view and light it offers during clean up activities.
If you wanted ovens instead of a range you could recess either the ovens or the refrigerator into the dining room but you would probably have to shorten your peninsula a bit. By the way, I'm not exactly sure if I have that in just the right spot but there's room for adjustment.

Sorry, CC. That opener was supposed to sound funny, not snarky!

I forgot to mention I still like the idea of recessing the fridge into the dining room wall if you're not doing the pantry. Then you would have even more prep space and you could do away with the prep sink altogether and move the clean up sink to that side of the kitchen. (I'd do anything for a prep sink but my kitchen is too small). The only down side to moving the fridge down is that you would have to significantly shorten the peninsula in order to get around the fridge door when it's open.

cheri127 - no worries, I'm all over the place in my thoughts and what I want is changing as yours and other suggestions sound better or make me rethink my thoughts.

I truly appreciate the time each of you have given in this fiascoIm about tapped out in brain energy, obviously.

The laundry room as it is now doesn't have a home for the backpacks and such, if I address that then I don't have to move the door plus if I can put in a larger window in the kitchen, then that addresses the light. Plus if I really think about it the traffic flow to and from the laundry room is right through the middle of the kitchen doing laundry last night I realized it wouldnt be that easy to make it through the kitchen with a full basket of clothes. And on laundry day when I do 5-8 loads, that might not make me happy.

As it is now, I have adequate storage, I certainly dont need a 5x14 pantry bet I would be I could fill it up! So if I go without the large pantry it needs a home in the kitchen proper.

I have actually read the posts that give suggestions on the zones necessary and words of wisdom and thought I was following along and had this last plan on the right track must have missed the point.

Option 5 (why I picked what I did)
What do I want to achieve:
1)better light = bigger window
2) laundry room better utilized didnt really show it in the pic, but I can change things around in there to make it easier to use or at least I think I can
3)separate zones:DW on left that area as CleanUp, to the right of sink as Prep and right of ovens and left of range is Cooking/Baking is that okay to have both cooking baking as the same? Someone said I might want to have the fridge close to the eating area for easy access so that is why it is there.
4)Fridge in recess a way to fit it in the kitchen, maybe double glass cabinetsmeaning cabinets with glass sides on front and back to view from both kitchen and dining to store the good dinnerware. Hence the pic.
5)I want an island/peninsula for kid seating and entertainment gathering, I guess I missed that point in that the island as Ive drawn it doesnt work and creates more or less the same hassle I have nowexcept the oven is moved which I thought would help
6)Cooktop or range to me really doesnt matter. I really REALLY like the AGA legacy, but it doesnt seem big enough to cook a tray of cookies, plus the cost is an easy place to cut back meaning going w/o saves a chunk of change. I like the idea of having drawers for pots/pans under the cooktop. So that isnt a deciding factor.

Can I just post a blank layout and tell everyone to finish as they best see fit including my wants/needs..

how about setting the fridge and ovens back into the garage area?

desertsteph: doable, do you mean instead of placing them into the DR space? Use the wall along the garage in the kitchen where 30"cabinets are in Option 5?

Anyone else? Struggling here....I guess my Easter deadline is out the window...maybe by summer?

Option 5: What about moving DW to right of sink and fridge at end of counter run next to kitchen table. Make the cooktop a range and place MW in the corner between sink and range. Leave the dining room alone.

cheri127 thanks for taking the time to draw a layout...I like the placement of appliance but the wide open floor would make me feel like I'm missing something...granted something I would have in the option 5 layout because I don't have room for an island.

Or back to Option 1...don't do the huge pantry but an option similar to housefuls layout? More of a typical walkthrough butlers pantry? Then no double ovens at the entry to laundry, make the cooktop a range?

Einie meini minie moe....

Walking around the island to get to the fridge in option 5 will drive you crazy in one day! The layout is similar to Malhgolds' but her run is long enough to have a sink and range on one wall. She has two windows, one on either side of the range and her fridge is where your cooktop is. There's another sink in the island. You would have to totally re-do the windows and your sink wall might not be long enough, but you should check out her kitchen. It's incredible. Your kitchen is as wide as hers so you could also do pantry cabinets along the wall behind the island.

Or, since you're no longer moving the laundry room door, you should reconsider option 1 with some tweaks.

Alright, what do you think of this?

The frig recessed into dining room. Then frame another box at the end of the dining room to match the frig side. Access that "box" from the garage as extra storage. The dining room will look like this only with your inspiration picture instead.

And here is the kitchen. If you opt for double ovens, they can go at the end of the sink run. Even though it's by a doorway, I assume you'll anyone coming since they will come from the outside. Or you could put it where the MW is instead. If this was my kitchen, I would keep the ovens with the sink and keep lots of prep space by the stove.

There is a tall pantry next to the cooktop. As I mentioned before, there should be a way to disguise the wall between the pantry and the frig with cabinetry to make it all look built-in.

This is my preference.

BTW, there is a 5-foot span between the stool on the end and the frig.

HTH.

oohhh, I feel special - thanks so much houseful! Wow - what program did you use to make that? How easy is it?
I like it! Could I put the cooktop/range where the MW is in your preference pic but more centered? Then the MW by the pantry. Or a corner cooktop range? Or would that not leave enough counter space? Where would the DW go?
Thanks again...very appreciated!

Here are some of my musings. Sorry for the bad pics. I used to have the program Houseful is using but that doesn't work on an apple and I'm too lazy to learn sketch up.

Option 1

Option 1 has lots of possibilities, for instance, you can have a cooktop instead of a range and put the ovens on the pantry wall. If you make the window bigger, you can shift the sink down and have more space between it and the cooker. Moving the sink down a bit also allows you to swap the DW and trash so that others can get to the trash without interfering with the cook. The biggest problem is that it gets very tight near the dining room wall. It would be hard to get by with someone sitting in that 3rd stool, encouraging the other two to go around the island, through the workspace to reach the fridge. Not good. Would 2 seats work instead of three?

Option 2

Option 2 shows what the space would look like if the window were larger and sink shifted down. I would be very unhappy with the long hike to the fridge, though. It's like that at our beach house and I really don't like it. Dish storage is a bit more challenging with such a large window, however, it's quite nice to store them in drawers so the 36" bank in the peninsula could serve you well for that.

Option 3

Option 3 would also benefit from enlarging the window and moving the sink closer to the fridge. I like the refrigerator so close to the eating area and family room here. You could also have a cooktop with ovens in the corner by the peninsula. Instead of a pantry wall, that space would make a terrific snack center, especially if it had a beverage fridge. It would keep the kids out of the work area.

I'm sorry I can't show you these in 3D. As you continue to work on your layout, be mindful of where trash will go, whether there's dish storage near the DW, glasses close to the fridge, where to put the microwave, spice storage near cooktop etc. You can't be too detail oriented. Welcome to the world of the TKO!

Frazzled...layout has consummed my life kids homework is neglected, housecleaning chores are neglected, laundry is piling up quicker than I can type!.... Can I just go to Hawaii for 6 months and let someone else just do it? How do people make it through renovations?

So...Option 1 is looking more and more doable. Going back to the original post, bmorepanic had suggested some of these same changes...should have listened in the beginning.

It seems houseful, desertsteph and cheri127 we are almost on the same page¡Kreading my mind? Or anticipating what is no longer left of my mind? Thanks for all your help, keep it coming.

I want to finalize my plans so I can get started on ordering cabinets and moving forward with this remodel. Until I can order cabinets, nothing will get done. And that is one thing that I already know. Cabinets: Showplace Rustic Alder, Covington, in Russet. Flooring is by Kentwood, Acacia Wood, and granite countertops are something like Cascadura or Colonial gold or Colonial Dream. Backsplash is in the thinking phase.

So now I need a working, functional, liveable, gorgeous layout! Then I can start the real headache of not having a kitchen! And get on with life!!!

Cosmocat, my kitchen layout comsumed an entire year of my life!!!!!! Don't worry about going back to the start. There are many here, myself included, who went around if circles for quite a while. Sometimes it's a good thing. When I started I really wanted a painted white kitchen but it took me so long to nail down a layout that I realized a white kitchen really wouldn't work for me. You already have most of your materials chosen so that's a good thing. What I would do next is really, really study your layout. Try to come up with what you think may be a final plan (be sure to consider what each and every cabinet will be...size, number of drawers, what they will hold etc) then post it as a new thread. Email me at cschieber at comcast dot net.