well look, my contractors told me (and 4 years ago when we used th em) that there are groups of people who specifically drive around LOOKING for construction sites and construction trucks and they steal tools. But wait....THEN...the same guys who stole the tools drive around to other construction sites and try to sell the tools they've just stolen to other groups of construction workers. The bad part is that some contractors will buy the tools that they KNOW are stolen.

They seemed to think it happens ALL the time.

So don't feel bad. I suspect your guy has heard about this before. Its not your fault.

Sorry this happened but it's a lesson learned that no time, no where, no how should anyone leave valuables in a vehicle. I know you feel guilty because it happened outside of your home, and to a nice guy, but it was his tools, his truck, HIS RESPONSIBILITY.

You offered to call the police which is what most people would do and he said no. And, I certainly wouldn't open the worm can by calling home owners b/c they will rebound on you and your insurance will go up if they even took the case which I doubt.

I don't mean to sound cruel, but again, we are all responsible for our belongings. And the ones that help the contractor to earn his living shouldn't be taken for granted. Even nice neighborhoods have thieves - evidently.

Next time he brings it up, ask him if he could please not mention it in your presence. Tell him you feel bad enough that it happened in front of your property and at this point there is nothing you can do but report it.

buffetgirl:

it does NOT happen all the time... at least as far as
I am concerned.. in 30 years of being in the Trades, not
once have I ever had some knucklehead approach me to "sell"
me some "hot" tools on the job site OR at the Fab Shop...

it's prolly some Crack-heads looking to score something of
value that they can pawn to get their daily "fix"...

anyways - I've never seen it for myself, so at least I'm
lucky (so far)... BUT -

My Dad always said that "Stealing a Tradesman's Tools is the
lowest thing that another man can do to someone that does real work for a living..."

just my .02 cents worth

kevin

Kevin M. Padden MIA SFA
Fabricator, Trainer & Consultant to the Natural Stone Insdustry
www.azschoolofrock.com

The only time I've seen anything like this was when I was working on a public housing project in Bridgeport, Ct., about 20 years ago. Only they didn't take the tools to other sites. They'd send kids in to steal the tools while workers were on lunch break, and then the kids would come back in the afternoon to sell the tolls back to the VERY PEOPLE THEY STOLE THEM FROM!! Accompanied, of course, by a couple of armed adults.

This happened to my neighbor when our houses were being built 10 years ago (not the house I'm currently in). The STEALING part, not the selling part.

It's a shame it happened to the guy, but my first thought was that as a business man, he should have some sort of insurance, no? Even if not, it IS his problem -- bottom line.

Try not to feel badly. It is NOT your fault. Not one bit.

IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. There was nothing you could do to prevent it. It happens everywhere and we all have to be responsible for our own stuff. I would feel bad too but ultimately he is responsible for securing his tools and for having insurance in case something happens. Let it go. There's nothing you can do about it. I agree with Kevin's dad - that is really low!

Thank you all for your helpful words. I really wish I could do something for him, but this reno has already cost a small fortune and I think my DH would kill me. He really, really likes our contractor and feels horrible about it, but he also feels that the contractor should have locked expensive stuff up or otherwise kept it secure (even in a nice neighborhood). There is alot of construction work going on in our neighborhood, so I wonder if someone else was hit...

Stealing in this case was just plain mean, if you ask me. This is an old, trashed truck - clearly the person driving it is not rolling in the dough. And the thieves actually removed an ugly old vacuum from the truck and left it on the curb in an effort to get the saws that were behind it. Like Kevin said, this truly is a trustworthy, nice guy just trying to make an honest living. Horrible.

I still feel badly for him, but you've talked me out of the guilt. THANK YOU.

Maybe at the end you can get him gift certificate to HD or Lowes to help replace them. That's really ashame as good tools are $$$ - we're slowly building our stash of tools and we've learned it is better to buy good tools, but I'm so paranoid and we never leave anything outside and I fuss at my husband if he leaves them in the front yard even for a few minutes when we aren't around. We're lucky as our neighbors really look out for us, but you can never be too careful, especially if people see tools.

I'm going to be the voice of dissent and say that you ought to do something towards replacing his tools (replace; not upgrade!). Sure you did not lose his tools for him and yes he absolutely bears some culpability for not having locked his truck in your neighbourhodd BUT this is your neighbourhood and you know its norms and mores better than he does. He works in several places and probably thinks nothing of leaving his truck unlocked for short durations because it is likely safe in many of the places he does work. Think of it as a friend of yours coming to visit and having her car broken into while visiting your house - wouldn't you feel responsible for helping her replace the stolen stuff?

Reading this I couldn't help but remember the S@x and the City Episode where Sarah Jessica Parker's character goes to a friend's house for a party; friend has instituted a no-shoes policy so SJP's character has to leave her $$$ shoes inside the door and someone walks off with them in leaving. So SJP tells her friend and while her friend had the good grace to pay for the lost shoes she did balk at the price of them and on and on and on ... . Anyhow, this reminded me strongly of that episode.

Yes it is his loss and while I don't think there is any legal obligation for you to have to pay, it seems to me that there is something of a social/ethical incumbency to do the right thing when a loss occurs to someone coming to see or work for you on your premises. I say this only as reflecting how I would and have acted in this case; for the record, my XH would disagree with me.

Mindstorm - I understand what you are saying, and this is probably why I feel conflicted.

That said, we live in a very, very nice area and to be honest, I am pretty shocked that they were taken. While we have an alarm on our house, many people around here do not and leave their doors and windows open and unlocked (I lock because I used to live in Boston and DC - big cities - and it is my nature to do so). I couldn't believe it when he told me it happened, and would never have expected it. He's been coming to our house since Mid-October and nothing has happened prior to this, nor to my yard guys that come once a week. I didn't realize that all along most of his tools had actually been in my gated yard and not out in his truck - in fact, the only reason it wasn't in my yard was because the Friday before his boss had him leave our job to go to another job for one day and he had to bring some of these smaller tools with him. So as for the norms of our neighborhood, I have to say this is quite surprising.

As for the tools, one of them was 15 years old. The other was a year old. Apparently he didn't actually like the year old one and really wants to get a much better one (the better one is $600 - the cheaper one is $250). Then there is the 15 year old table saw which I seem to recall him saying would be about $250 to replace.

If it were up to me I probably would help him out (this would be a non issue if they weren't so expensive!!!) - if it were just my say to do it. But my DH really believes that it's not our responsibility. AAGH! Now I feel guilty again!!!!

Don't feel guilty. You never told him to leave them unsecured. It's been more than 20 years since I lived in San Diego, but even though it thinks it's a small town, it really is the big city. Construction tools are constantly being stolen everywhere. Most electricians I know eat in their trucks, because the very sight of a fitted truck is an invitation to thieves. Your guy has got to know that.

But I too feel bad for the guy and I never met him, so agree that a nice gift certificate or cash contribution as an end of project gift is a lovely idea.

Plllog nailed it. She said, "But I too feel bad for the guy and I never met him." That's really the point here. You feel bad for the guy. The Guy feels bad for himself too. He's kicking himself for not securing his tools better, and since human nature causes us to rehash and fret over stuff that stresses us, he's rehashing every time he talks to you. I doubt that he holds you even a little responsible. I mean, sometimes we do say something like, "Well, if I hadn't stopped at my sister's tonight to drop off that sweater, I wouldn't have got the ticket for rolling through the stop sign..." And that's true enough, isn't it? Wrong place at right time, or even, Right place wrong time.
One of the contractors that I wait on every week at the bank just lost $15,000 worth of tools since the thieves even stole the trailer they were in right from the driveway of the jobsite. And to compound his loss, his insurance guy failed to add all the tools to the policy even though they BOTH remember going over the list together. So, for the most part, he wasn't covered. He's mad. He's unhappy with his agent. The agent feels bad. And the contractor is annoyed with his lead guy (the tiler guy) who didn't finish the job that day and left the trailer there for the next morning instead of taking it to the business and locking it down. I felt bad when I heard the story. It's a feel bad story all over the place.

Let's change the names in your story, shall we?

The guy who delivers your water brought in your bottle and installed it for you. Then, he went to lunch with a friend in his friend's car, leaving his truck right out front of your house parked on the street. When he got back, his stereo and his laptop for school were stolen from the truck.
How bad do you feel now? How guilty do you feel? A lot of the feelings we have are based on how much we like the person the bad thing happened to, and how invested we are in that person's happiness. Since the contractor was using his saw on YOUR kitchen, and since he's been working for months in YOUR kitchen, you feel really involved. But it's still the same deal. It's his stuff in his truck. He failed to secure it and he should have known better. In fact, he did know better. If he had Told you that he needed to leave his saws and was worried about their safety, I bet you would have had them brought into your home for the day. Am I right?

Red

I remember when my dad used to work in construction he used to engrave a number on his tools in case somebody took them and tried to pawn them. I didn't even think about that until I read this. I didn't realize how smart that was......

I agree it's not your fault. And I agree it's prob. some drug addict.

Oh that really stinks! Are you responsible? No. In fact, I bet if you offered to pay him for his loss he would decline it.

Just my 2cents.

I disagree.. Do a quick google search (I just did) and you'll find that stolen tools and resell of those tools is a major problem for contractors.

Here's one thread: http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=29178&highlight=stolen+tools

now granted, I AM in an urban area so maybe it's more prevalent, but it sounds like it's pretty widespread from what I'm finding online.

I'm sorry this happened, I know you feel bad. But try not to feel too guilty, it's ultimately your contractor's responsibility, and has nothing at all to do with the norms and mores of your neighborhood or any other neighborhood in which your contractor has worked. The theft of construction tools and materials is very common, especially in nicer neighborhoods, because that's where most of the work is happening and where the "good stuff" is. I'm surprised he didn't want to call the police though, don't contractors have to insure their tools for just this reason?

I'd give the guy a $100 gift certificate to HD. It'll make you feel better, and he'll probably appreciate it enough to go the extra mile for you in the future. From my perspective, I wouldn't feel guilty, but it's a nice gesture and I do believe buying goodwill from a contractor you like is a good thing. Think of it like giving a somewhat larger than usual tip, and delivered mid-job rather than at the end.

Thank you everyone. I talked to my DH and I'm going to HD today and getting him a gift certificate. I'm not sure for how much yet. My DH gave me the go-ahead to go up to $250. Our bills have been so astronomical lately with the remodel, and the stock market has just been tanking, so I'm trying to be smart about this, you know? I want to help, but the timing just could NOT be worse from a financial standpoint. I will feel better though.

And y'all are correct, I wouldn't feel nearly the obligation if I didn't know and like the guy! That makes it so much worse!

I really appreciate all the feedback. I know this isn't directly related to kitchen remodeling (even though that is what we're having done), so taking the time to answer is so nice. Thanks!

Not to hijack the thread BUT discuss the insurance question. In this case, if the contractor has insurance on the tools, he would also have a deductible - typically $1,000. Therefore, not worth making a claim in this case.

However, for Red's customer it's a little different. Red, tell your customer that their insurance agent has insurance coverage for when they screw up (it's called E&O) and he can hold the agent liable. If when the contractor and the agent were initally discussing the tools, the agent said " get me a list with values for each tool and we'll get you covered" the contractor is out of luck. If the discussion wen't something like this "OK, you have about 25K in tools, we'll get that added to the policy" the agent is on the hook.

socal, you clearly have a large, loving heart. Your GC and his crew / subs are lucky to get to work in such a warm, thoughtful and caring home.

I am basically a vegan, for ethical reasons (I love animals). In my previous (San Francisco) mothers' club, a mom wrote to the group, explaining that she and her children are omnivores, but that she wants to teach compassion to her littles and that she wants to ensure that any and every animal product they eat comes from an animal who was treated humanely. She (naturally) received many responses about only shopping at natural grocers (e.g., Whole Foods, etc.) as well as some really ugly responses from (fellow) vegetarians / vegans, essentially calling her a murderer.

I wrote her telling her that what matters most is what's in her heart and what she tells her children. Not everybody can afford to purchase all of their groceries from Whole Foods (or wherever), but that doesn't mean they don't still care. If her heart is pure, her intentions generous, her children will learn that and I truly believe global change can be affected.

We do the best we can.

I'm writing this long story because it's precisely how I feel about you. Even if you don't purchase the HD gift cert you've already done so much and made the situation better. This carpenter knows you care, that you didn't just say "tough" or ignore him. He knows you don't view him or his possessions as expendable (we all know how callous and cruel some people can act toward the "minions" who toil on their projects). Your children have seen how seriously their mother takes this, that she is aware and cares, and wants to help right a wrong.

The GC has seen this, and knows how lucky he is to have worked with such a family, who cares about the people who are making their home a different space.

Actually, writing it out makes me think of that current insurance commercial on tv, where someone witnesses an act of kindness so goes on to participate in their own act, which encourages another bystander to practice kindness, and so on and so on.

You are a good soul.

Home Depot may very well not sell the particular tool(s) that he wants. As a pro, he may well care about small differences that homeowners don't care about. In addition, he may wish to shop on-line for the best deal, or to deal with a local (or even used) tool store where gets the service he wants.

I think it is kind of you to help him replace them. I too really like my carpenter, and I would have done the same.

true, maybe he won't replace his tool from HD. But maybe he'll use the gift card to pay for something else he'd normally buy there, thereby freeing up $100 to send to the tool-catalog company.

But I think I'd insist on calling the police. As a civic-duty thing. So they know what's going on. How will they catch the bad guys if we don't let them know about crimes that are happening?

As a relative newcomer to SoCal, I've learned quickly that the density of population + the extraordinary mix of cultures and ethnicities + the high cost of living here adds up to day-to-day issues such as your robbery.

Our neighbor's gardener had his tools stolen from his truck while parked at their home TWICE in the last two or three years!! That gives credence to the hypothesis that there are people whose business is patrolling areas to steal construction or other expensive power equipment.

My neighbor told me that the first time they gave the gardener several hundred dollars to help pay for his loss. The second time, they did not, but made it possible for him to park his truck (with open bed) in their garage, so that it would be a deterrent to robbers.

I was surprised that our neighbor felt it was her responsibility to assist with the loss, but the gardener certainly is far less well off and the loss was significant -- all of his gardening equipment.

While we live in a quite nice neighborhood, almost every home is tended to by numerous gardeners, pool cleaners, house and window cleaners, contractors etc., so there is ample exposure to "outsiders", and it has little to do with the quality of the neighborhood.

Re. gift certificate or cash: I'd lean toward gift certificate, too. Your contractor might not use the gift to replace what he lost (my husband does lots of internet searching for his tools), but almost ALL contractors do business regularly at HD b/c they cater to contractors. Cash is a little transparent as a gift (except for children learning about money) and while you don't want to give him a check for tax reasons, the gift card/certificate has a little more substance or deliberateness about it.

By the way, my husband and I would have split on the issue just as you and your husband did... I would not believe it to be my responsibility to reimburse the contractor, but if it had been a very positive relationship until the robbery, I would feel upset by the change of mood as the project was winding down and would think a lot about what I could do to reverse the situation -- even though I don't think you have ANY real responsibility to rectify the situation.

If I gave a gift, I would also suggest that the contractor purchase one of those big lockboxes and bolt it to his truck, so that your kindness doesn't encourage him to be a little careless another time.

I agree about calling the police. Someone who doesn't want to call the police makes me wonder about what Remodelqueen said about labeling your tools. I wouldn't want to call the police if my missing tools had uhh someone else's label on them...

Anyway, the police should be notified, especially if there are other potential targets in the neighborhood.

Dang,

That's crappy!

Boy, do I feel like being a vigilante when I hear about stuff like that!

It really bugs me that everything has to be bolted down or under lock and key. Reminds me,just last week the roofers asked me if would be OK to leave their ladder up by the front door while they went to lunch. I was assuming they meant would it inconvenience me, but if it had gone missing, I would totally feel NO obligation. But, I have no relationship invested with these guys, I think the $100 gift certificate would be more than generous- $250 may be TOO much, and give him the message than money isn't as tight for you as it is. (?)

Early in my remodel the framing crew stored tools in my locked garage. The lock was cut and framing guns, compressor, etc were stolen. I knew the carpenters were all responsible for their own tools so I handed out cash out of my own pocket to replace them, about $1000 I think. These guys didn't have much and were working hard for me, and I could afford it. I told them it was a one time deal, take their tools home with them from then on.

Again, I appreciate all the responses. This is a really nice guy, and he is not as fortunate as we are monetarily. The market and economic situation has hit us as well as everyone else, but I know that giving him a boost would be very, very welcome and would make a noticeable difference in his life. So, I went and got him a gift card at Home Depot today and left it at the shop so hopefully he'll get it today or tomorrow. I decided $250 was too much, but $100 was too little. So I went with $200. I know it wasn't my obligation, but I felt that morally it was the right thing to do for someone who has been coming here almost every work day for 2 months. I appreciate all of your wise advice and support!!! Thank you!

Hugs to you, Socal!!

socalthree, it was awfully generous of you and this was a wonderful gesture. As everyone has acknowledged, this was not your fault nor your doing but this just says that you took it on yourself to even partly help to right a wrong (again, not of your making). I like that there are people like you around. I like that gestures like yours motivate and remind me to be a better person too when "stuff happens" and not cave to the mantra that "nobody else would step up so why should I?".

((((socalthreems)))) I hope you have a wonderful remodel and that you will love the finished space. You're a good person.

socal, I think I would be with you. My renovation has cost me three times what I budgeted, and had caused some stress issues in my life. But the fact is, I too live in "a nice neighborhood" and I am appalled at injustice to my "friends or acquaintances" at my door. If I can't afford to help someone in need, but I can afford a new kitchen, well something is wrong there (in my life).

I would probably give him a cash tip in an evelope at the next bill, maybe $500. What goes around comes around. Think about that karma for your generosity, and for those idiot theives.

Ah shucks! Y'all are so nice! I should come around here more often!! :) I'll be sure to thank my Southern Louisiana Mom for raising me right!!! LOL.

Oh - and here's to helping our fellow man in whatever way we can (however small)! Cheers and happy remodeling!

Wow. That's terrible. I had a high end laptop and some jewelry stolen from my house on the job (whole house remodel). There was no sign of B&E so it was clearly someone on the job although no way to know who. My contractor offered not fiscal compensation. I guess after having gone through this I would say it was the contractor's responsibility to insure his equipment. Bad things happen. Although you feel awful about it (as I would), it wasn't your fault that his tools were stolen. I think it's great though that you want to do something for him, especially since it's his livelihood that has been impacted by the loss. I don't think it's required or should be expected however, and I'm sure he realizes what great customers he has.

Kailuamom, thank you for addressing my customer's situation. Construction people are really suffering around here and I do feel for this guy. He's not my favorite client, but the fact that the agent had discussed adding all the stuff on the phone, and even told my client that he screwed up and failed to do it, made me feel that there should be some insurance liability. I will tell him what you said this next week when I see him.

And OP, I think you did a very kind thing.

Red