So sorry you have a problem. I don't have solutions just sympathy and encouragement. I am sure others on the forum will have good suggestions for you as somebody certainly has had this same problem.

Oh yuck! That does not sound nice at all. I'm not sure what would work but I hope the KD is bending over backwards trying to help you find a solution. I hate to say it but the pantry sounds like the least work even if it makes it super small. I don't like the idea of anything that makes the sink off centre.

Absolutely demand the the KD fix this to your satisfaction. It is their fault, not yours. Even HD "KDs" will reorder the correct sized cabinet pronto. There is no excuse and you do not have to suffer with losing pantry space or a misaligned window.

My only suggestion would be to make the pantry smaller and then add a 4" pullout to the right of the sink so the sink could remain centered. It would mean though that the DW is not right next to the sink.

How quickly could the KD get you the new cabs? I would think a rush order would be expected here. My vote would be for new cabs and dealing with the delay than finding a fix that you're not happy with. After the kitchen is done, you'll forget the inconvenience of the delay, but if you're not happy with the end result, that will stay with you for a long time.

Oh my gosh, I am so sorry! I'd be sick if this happened to me and would never, ever agree to an off-center sink or most other "compromises" of *my* design for that matter!

It's only wood and can be fixed or replaced and should be, by the responsible party, in this case, the KD.

Jodi-

Oh I am sorry this is happening after all the thought you put it into the lay out. If you can put a rush order on new replacemnet cabinets i think I would do that. If not then I would prbably move the refrigarator wall by 3" and the sink would be off center by 1" which will not be very noticable.

Yikes! We had something like this happen, but luckily they had cabinets in stock in the correct size.

Can you have them order one of the base cabinets in the next 3" size down PRONTO? and then maybe lose one inch in the pantry or maybe in the build around for the fridge?(if that is what is there?) Just a thought...

I agree that the KD is responsible for this, tell them they need to fix it. Do not settle just to have it done on their timeline. Like others have said, you will have to live with it for a long time & it would really bug me if the sink cabinet was not centered (not so much the sink, if it is undermount...but 4" is quite a bit...)

ANYWAY, I hope they are able to fix this for you soon!

JoAnn

Speaking from someone whose been w/o a kit for over a year, I agree with malhgold.
Better a small delay now than living with a problem forever.

hmmm - sorry for your dilema - I agree I would be pushing back on the KD for a real solution - see what he/she comes up with. It's really not up to you to be trying to find a solution - that's why we hire "professionals" -

I would not cave on the centered sink - you will really "rack your brains" for years to come if you settle for less.

I'm wondering if the solution should be appropriate sized cabinets to left & right of sink so the design can stand as is - Given your situation, and realizing there will be a delay - I don't see why hacking up sizes of cabinets, diminishing the original design should be the solution.

Good luck!

I would DEFINATELY push the KD to fix this. This is totally her fault.

But if that doesn't work, you could swap everything on the right of the sink with everything on the left. Then move the fridge wall 1 inch or whatever is needed to make it fit. Unfortunately you would lose 3" in the pantry.

Good luck!

I would definitely order a smaller cabinet to the left of the sink. Your sink wall is a focal point of the kitchen and an off centered sink would ruin the beautiful window you have there. The quick order cabs usually come in within a week from my past experience.

The only other suggestion which I have seen is to do an off center asymetrically shaped sink with a large centered faucet. Several people had pics on another thread about this same sink under window probem and displayed their centered faucets and off center assymetrical sink. It actually looked fine. I don't rmember the brand of sink though. I believe it was one large bowl with a smaller bowl too but all in a D shape? Maybe do another thread with "off center sink" in the title to get some replies and/or pics?

Good luck. it wouldn't be a kitchen remodel without some kind of hitch.

IMO, this isn't a dilemma of "do I make the KD fix it or live with it," it's really a question of "how do I change my layout to get the elements I want?" The KD planned for 90" worth of cabinets to fit in an 86" space to the left of the sink, so you need to take out 4" from the design. Just treat it like a layout critique rather than a room full of cabinets needing a quick fix.

The simplest solution would be to make one of the base cabinets 4" narrower (and possibly the wall cabinet next to the fridge, depending on whether the KD mis-measured the window portion or the wall portion).

Of course the KD will need to return the wrong-sized cabinets and reorder the corrects ones pronto. And you are justified in feeling frustrated.

Sympathy hugs from here. I agree with weedyacres - and you are the best layout critique-er here. So go to town on your plan and see what gives!

But it is up to KD to order and make sure those cabs come in yesterday . . .

Good luck! We are pulling for you . . .

Buehl,

Could you have a panel for your fridge, instead of a wall? Do you not have basement access to move the heat register in the bedroom? If your sink was an inch or two off centre, I don't think it would really be that noticeable, especially if you have a double bowl sink that has two different sizes. I'm one of the posters to that thread that cleo was referring to. Our sink is 2" off centre, and TRULY no one would ever know! I centred the faucet, and I dare anyone to even tell which side is off centre!

What is next to your drawer base 27-3 between it and the pantry- not sure what TO is? (Could the studs for that wall in the pantry be turned on their side to gain 2", ie 4X2 instead of 2X4?)

Hey! We ordered our kitchen cabinets May 4 2007, we had a carpenter in TODAY to finally go over all the problems, and to give the kitchen company a quote to fix them (arghh- a quote? Does that mean he might not get the job, and I'll have to wait longer??!!)

It'll work out- you're not actually losing 4" of space that you never had- the 4" you THOUGHT you had was just a tease!

Buehl, ditto with weedyacres, mommycooks and raehelen and remember "you are the best layout critique-er here" ! You can figure this out, then insist your KD make it right!

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. It sounds like your KD made a huge mistake, and I'm in agreement with those who say she should work hard to correct this. I also agree that the layout should be reworked. I wonder if you might want to take a bit from the wall to the left of the refrigerator and the rest from the cabinetry?

Also, I'm assuming your wall cabinet to the left of the window will need to be smaller? If so, and if the symmetry of each of the wall cabinets on either side of the window is important to you, I wouldn't hesitate to insist that the wall cabinet to the right of the sink be replaced also---if you can work out the plan to accommodate that. I'm not sure what is at the far right on your window wall, just before your pantry, so I don't know whether that can be adjusted or not.

I hope you can work out a speedy solution to this problem with your KD.

You made it to day 3 before you had a problem? I'm impressed! Seriously.

We had a similar issue - but a doorway in a brick wall and not a pantry to deal with. The cabinet guy told me he was going to cut down one of my brand new cabinets and take out 3 inches. He got mad because I said "wait a minute." Grrrrr

Can the GC turn the studs -- you can pick up 1-1/2 to 2" on each side that way. I'm also wondering if the walls could be finished with something thinner than the 5/8" sheetrock, but that may not be a possibility worth exploring for a maximum gain of 1" total.

If that doesn't work, you could look at modifying the corner pantry into a flat wall pantry and use rollouts and pullouts. I have a 24" rollout and 12" pullout, and they hold a ton of food. Not as good for small appliances and such if you use the pantry for that.

Good luck working it out.

Buehl,

In one of our meetings with our KD she mentioned that it is possible to fit the same sink into a smaller cabinet by doing a slight modification.

For example, an undermounted sink which normally would require a 30" cabinet could be put into a 27" cabinet. It would need some extra pieces of wood to be added inside the cabinet to support the sink so you do loose some space under the sink. She also mentioned "shaving off" the side of the sink cabinet.

Honestly I wasn't trying to fully understand this method so this is as much as I remember from that conversation but may be this is something you can explore with your KD.

I did an online search and came across a similar discussion on Ikeafans where someone is trying to fit a sink which needs a 36" cabinet into a 30" one:

http://www.ikeafans.com/forums/design-elements/1028-speaking-30-sink-bases.html

One other option that wasn't mentioned could be putting a smaller sink but that could be too much of a compromise for you.

We had two similar problems when we were adding a foyer to the front of our house this past summer. First, the architect mismeasured the length of the front wall. We have stone on the exterior which is not part of the structure, but somehow he counted the thickness of the stone as part of the wall. As a result, our foyer wall ended up too close to the window leaving no room for a shutter. Second, when the new front stairs were built, the bottom step ended up about 14" off the ground level so the new walkway leading to the front steps had to be done with a step and a landing which made it way more expensive than we originally planned - a mistake that neither the architect nor the contractor admitted so we just paid the extra money so we can be done with it. The "sad" part is that during the planning I explicitly asked him to make sure the shutters fit because that was very important to me. But the "happy" part of the story is the house looks very good and nobody looking at it would know there had been construction mistakes.

I know my foyer's story doesn't give you any real solutions but sometimes knowing that it is a common thing makes it a little bit better.

annab6

Thanks everyone!!!! It means a lot to be able to "talk" to others who understand my frustration!

I talked to my KD this evening and she told me that she and several other designers and the other owner of the contracting company spent a couple of hours late afternoon/early evening at our house analyzing the problems (note the plural...yes, there's another problem...worse, IMO, than this one!) & discussing options. After measuring & remeasuring, they decided it was only off by 3" on the left side. So, rather than offset the sink, we were give the option to either reduce the 36" drawer base to 33" or reduce the 18" trash pullout to 15". The 18" trash pullout will hold 2-35qt cans while the 15" will hold 2-27qt cans. My DH wants to reduce the drawer base, I want to reduce the trash pullout...I will probably give in on this one since I have a couple of battles coming up and this way he'll be more willing to go along with me.

The sink will be centered under the window.

btw...The 3" had to be recovered from the left of the sink if we wanted the sink to remain centered since the right side is correct w/a centered sink. My DH really wants the sink centered...he cares more than I do. But, if we get any "extra" space on the right, I'll give it to the pantry!

Answers to Questions...

The wall to the left of the refrigerator will house the HVAC vent/duct that leads to our master bedroom. Until demolition, it went up the center of the wall where the peninsula will now be. I was tempted to just close off that register since we have 2 in our bedroom and eliminate that wall but, my DH nixed that idea since 2 vents are hard pressed to cool our room in the summer (SW corner).

The "TO" b/w the ovens & the pantry is actually "TF" for "Tall Filler" and it's 3-3/4" filler... My KD says I need it there...I'm going to question her about that tomorrow...I could use those extra 3" in the pantry! Raehelen & Lascatx, I'm going to ask the contractor tomorrow about turning the studs...If we could do that on 2 walls, I'll gain 2" or so in each direction.

As to a cabinet pantry, Lascatx, my KD does want me to switch to a 36" pantry cabinet b/c she says it will hold so much more. She's right, but one of the functions of this pantry is an appliance garage. I plan to store all my small appliances, except my mixer, in the pantry on the narrower shelves and food on the longer ones. Also, w/a step-in pantry, I can have shelves to the ceiling (well, almost!).

As to the upper cabinets...my KD didn't mention the upper cabinet, I'll check w/her tomorrow and if we do indeed have to reduce the upper cab, I'll have to think about reducing the right as well...

+++++++++++

Now, the NEXT, and more serious problem IMO, is the vent hood...

I have a VAH that requires an 8" outlet. However, it turns out the distance b/w the ceiling and the floor above is only 6"...which means there's no room for the outlet to go up and out the exterior wall. Even if we used a 7" x 10" outlet, it still wouldn't fit. I suggested sending it under the kitchen floor since it's over the unfinished portion of our basement, but the same problem exists b/w the LR & Kitchen wall...only 6".

She did say we could lower the ceiling (she didn't even want to suggest it!), but I only have 8' ceilings and I don't want them any lower. She agreed it would not be a good idea.

Even if we did find a way, it turns out the MBA's tub's waste pipe goes across the bay that the VAH would have to go through (b/c of the location of the cooktop).

So, my KD is saying that our only option is a recirculating hood...which I don't want!!!!!! [I've been preaching to everyone else about recirculating:bad, external vent:good!] She insists that today's recirculating hoods are much better than they used to be. She called VAH today and they're investigating options in their line for her. They're supposed to call back tomorrow morning.

When I told her I have not heard anything good about them, her response was, "are you reading that on your site? Tell them to call me!" [She was kidding about the "call me"]

My DH is suggesting we go straight up through our master bedroom closet (which is also small...sheesh, everything is small in our house!) and through the roof. I'm hesitant since I don't think I want a vent hood going through the closet for aesthetic as well as functional reasons. Assuming he has his measurements right, it'll take about a square foot of space out of an already small closet, right where the clothes hang.

I do have a standard electric cooktop, but I eventually want an induction cooktop... Will recirculating be OK?

Can anyone think of any other options? Do you think my DH is right?

Sheesh, you get started settling one problem and another already presents itself. And I am absolutely no help. Other than looking at the aesthetics and (like you) deciding that I would definitely want a vented hood, I have done no research at all in this area to clearly back up that decision.

I can tell you that we had an issue with the closet in my son's upstairs bedroom when we had to have some large HVAC stuff through it. Aesthetically, it really wasn't a problem, as they closed it all in with drywall and finished it like any other wall. Of course, his closet was extra large, so losing the space wasn't an issue. I can see how it would be different in the master bedroom closet, especially if it's already a bit small.

I'll leave it to others to address the issue of vented versus non-vented hoods/fans in the kichen.

Hey, buehl -

Yep, you're right, the second problem is WAY worse.

I think I would vote for going up through the MB closet and out the roof (assuming this run isn't over VAH maximum run of vent for the hood). It will stink to take up the space, but they can definitely drywall it in - we have a chase in one of our closets - then just get a new hanging bar to fit the remaining space.

I would DEFINITELY NOT accept a recirculating hood. Sounds like a cop out from the KD who wants an easy solution. The best solutions are sometimes never easy.

I haven't read all of the suggestions, but what about:

- Turning the studs in the wall by the fridge to narrow that wall down 2". (Normally, studs are in the wall the 'wide' way - turn them so they're the 'narrow' way. Not as strong, but almost always, strong enough.)

- Having the KD rush order the cabinet in a size 3" smaller. (Whether it's a mis-measure or a mis-order, if she did it, it's her responsibility.)

- Getting a filler strip and field-cutting to size to make it all work.

- You may also be able to scoot your sink a bit to the left so it's not precisely centered in the sink cabinet. It's actually far less visible a discrepancy than it sounds like, particularly if your faucet is set off to one side.

Do you have enough space for a 6" duct? If so you could get a smaller fan that only needs 6" ducting. I believe VAH makes those too. Seems that would be better than a recirculating fan.

problem 1: I would recommend sizing down the 36" cab to 33" and keeping the larger sized trash cabinet. You won't regret it. It's one of the best features of our remodel. I have 27", 30" and 36" drawers and honestly at those sizes 3" doesn't make that big a difference in terms of additional storage.

problem 2: Second the suggestion for either a 6" duct or a rectangular duct--though it may be less efficient still much better than recirculating. Perhaps a blower might help? Check best By Braun specs for other duct options.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rectangular Ducts

I replied to your other post with a couple of ideas for the vent hood issue. Now in regard to the other issue:

Turning the studs in the wall wont help becuase you need the 3.5 depth in the wall cavity for the oval pipe.

I was looking at your demolition photo's and I cam across the photo showing the original oval duct in the middle of the wall.

what if it was moved all the way to the right side, interior bearing wall, and then over inside the joist bay all the way to the left like it was previously. There isn't a pic of the wall right there so I am not sure wht is there.

What about removing this short wall, next to the fridge and then running the oval duct, for your bedroom, up the outside wall and then over? Not sure if there is an outside stud bay that intersets this joist bay to run the duct.

Problem #1: We decided to downsize to a 33" drawer base & keep the 18" trash pullout.

Problem #2: No resolution yet...

I called my KD and basically told her we don't want a recirculating hood and I described some of the options presented here (6" duct, rectangular duct, crossing bays, etc). She told me she was meeting with other designers tonight to try to figure out what to do...she hasn't called back yet, so I assume they haven't figured it out yet. She did mention that there needs to be at least 12" b/w turns and a couple of other issues that I can't remember right now (I'm tired!)

Todds, turning the studs for a shallower wall was suggested for getting the 3" back (but the extra inches had to come from the other side of the sink). I also thought it might work to give me 2 or 3 inches add'l space in the pantry. We don't want to run the HVAC duct up the exterior wall b/c it would be affected by the heat/cold outside before reaching our bedroom. Thanks, for taking the time to help!

I want to thank you all for your creative ideas. I just hope we can come to some resolution w/a ducted hood!

I need sleep, but I wanted to let you all know that I haven't been ignoring you...my DS had a concert tonight (Jazz Band) so I've been out-of-touch.

I had gotten lost and thought the pantry size came up because the room was needed there, but turning studs can work on either end if the wall isn't load bearing or some other reason. Glad you found a solution to #1 -- that was really just a matter of taking time to weigh the options.

Hope you get #2 resolved tomorrow. Maybe someone will wake up and have an epiphany in the shower or driving to work. Eureka!

I have a DS in jazz band too. Glad to see your priorities are in order. ;-)