I'm not expert with this but visually to me that looks a little odd. Even if he tried to put them tight together there would still be a little spacing because of how the stone is shaped, iykwim? I would think that space would be good enough?

Maybe this is a dumb question but how would he redo that now?

I'm sure others here will chime in.

I have the same arch and my builder used brick in a complimentary color I chose, over an arched window also.

The brick/stone combination makes for a very visual appealing contrast.

I agree, that does not look like what you're asking for. They seem spread way too far for that, I would cross post this in johnbridges.com and see what the real pro's have to say about it. Mongo, a tiling pro in GW seems to usually stick with the bathroom forum, but Bill goes to the kitchen as well. You could try posting your question there to their attention to see if they can offer you any feedback.

Sandy,
I can understand your frustration. I have to admit that I wouldn't be happy with how the arch was handled, either. Not only do the stones look spaced too far apart, I'd expect that the bottom edges of the 'arch stones would be lower, too. They look to high to me.

Yep.....doesn't look right. Stop the work now if you can. I get the feeling he's never done arches since the 'water freezing' excuse is ridiculous.

They look too far apart.

The vertically layed stones are way too far about. They should butt against each other.

Just wondering if you have contacted the manufacturer of the 'stone' to ask what the specs are for installing it, and how much space is required? I don't know where you live, but perhaps it varies in different climates?

I looked at several photos of it on their website below, but in the 20 or so that I saw. I didn't see anywhere an arch wasn't created with brick or granite between the opening (windows, etc) and the stone. Is it something that you saw IRL and know that it can be done the way you want it? Just wondering if it's made for that application before I chime in. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Dutch stone website

I think the overall fireplace stacking looks ok, but the stone along the arch are too far apart. It seems to me that he should have done the arch first - picking appropriately straight stones, or perhaps you can order special sized stones for an arch. I found this fireplace on the website my3dogs posted under Pennsylvania ledgestone. The arch on this fireplace looks very nice and the stones are close together. On the other hand, they're very uniform in size and perhaps your stone isn't providing nice straight graduated sizes to choose from. I'd call the manufacturer and see what they suggest.

{{!gwi}}

That was my first thought too....that the arch should have been done first. It looks like an after thought now.

I'm going to be blunt here -- That looks lousy and if it isn't changed, you'll probably hate it forever. (The way we hate ours, which isn't nearly as bad...)

There are four major specific problems:

1 - Yes, the stones are much too far apart. You said you wanted a stacked-stone look -- that's NOT what he delivered. It looks, and from his comments, sounds like he doesn't even know what that is. You've told him and told him and he's ignored you. Grounds for immediate termination, IMO.

2 - He's using flats instead of corner pieces on your arch. There are specially-made L-shaped corner pieces made to cover exposed corners. Skimping there really shows, and makes it abundantly clear that your 'stone' is only 1" thick and almost certainly fake. If cutting this particular expense was your informed decision, admit you were wrong, tear it down, and order some corner pieces. If he didn't even discuss it with you, then he doesn't know the product and has no business working with cultured stone.

3 - He straight-cut the edges instead of chiseling them to resemble natural stone where trimming was needed, then

4 - (even worse!) laid them out so those straight cut edges are exposed right front and center in your focal point arch! It's hard to imagine that particular stone placement was anything other than a deliberate 'up yours'. (Sorry for the profanity - but really...)

Bottom line -- This guy is a HACK!
Stop him before he wastes any more of your material...

From the examples in the Dutch Quality Stone ledgestone portfolio, arches are formed of brick, not ledgestone.

Sweeby tells it like it is. This looks like a school project. Either he re-does it or you'll see him in small claims court.

Sweeby said it all better than I could.

You should have fired the guy when he told the lie about the "water freezing problem".

That arch looks like a kindergarten project and you know you will never grow to accept it. Cut your losses now and have someone redo it.

Boy, this is why we don't pay in full until the job is done.....You're not suppose to know its veneer....That arch is in every way shape and form wrong....Please make him stop ..he's hurting my eyes....

Contact the manufacture of the stone...I'm sure they would love for you to email these photos to them ...What a bad endorsement for their product...

I'm sure they'll help you...

Did they build an arch form to do the arch, removing after the mortar was dry? Like below:

Then they do the rock above the arch, leaving in the wooden arch form. Once everything is dry, they remove the wooden arch form and point the stone bottom, if necessary.

The rock in your arch should be coming down and covering the ends of the horizontal rocks on the underside of arch.

If you notice in this next picture, they are not working on the far left garage door since there was only two arch forms from GC's previous job. Once the right side was complete, they moved one over. Reusing the arch forms from the GC's previous job saved several hundred dollars. We used them on the back of the house as well, with brick arches.

I totally agree with Sweeby. Good luck!

Here is a picture of the back brick arches, which would be laid like yours using faux stone. They arch forms are installed and they laid the brick on top of the form, so that when the mortar was dried and the form was removed the finished brick arch is exposed. Again, the forms are not removed until all the brick has been laid and the mortar has dried/set for a few days. Then they repoint the underside of the arch bricks if necessary. (repoint = fill in any gaps)

or like this.........Scroll down.. Click on the very last photo....

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.riosbrickworks.com/resi.htm

To be blunt, i've seen similar stonework down in Mexico where arches are used in residential as well as commercial building. It might be their idea of rustic.

Like I said in my post, if it isn't visual appealing to *you*, you need to stop any more work from being done ASAP. Remember, *you're* the one footing the bill, and this isn't one of those cheap, easy fixes.

I sure hope everything works out in your favor.

I just want to weigh in and say that I don't think the stone work looks bad at all. It looks nice. But then again, I'm no expert when it comes to stonework. All that really matters is if you are unhappy with it!

It doesn't look good (sorry). Hope you get it worked out right!

The contractor's point about why the frontal stones are so far apart is bull. They look to me to be placed for decorative effect and nothing more. The rest of the stone work's mortar is not that thick, so why is he contradicting himself?

Look at the fireplace pic that caroloh posted. It has no where near the amount of mortar between the front pieces. However, may be that you have to turn the pieces sides out IYKWIM?

Have the contractor pull the front stones off and start again. If he tells you he cannot, he is full of it.

I had stone work done a few times in recent years and had one situation where my DH did not like the way one place that was dry looked, it was not how we envisioned or explained to the contractor what we had in mind. Similar to your situation, but not an arch. Our contractor's guys pulled it off and the owner of the stone business came to our property. He was not thrilled, but they did what DH asked. No question, the contractor is going to be aggravated, but too bad. You have to live with that arch forever now. If you don't make it right, you will be so disappointed every time you see it.

The stone can be removed and don't let anyone tell you it cannot. It is an endeavor that most masons hate, but I would push it if I didn't like what I was seeing. Our guy almost left the job and materials, but thankfully DH was able to calm him down and make him see the light. Tread lightly with how you approach the mason. They are craftsman and don't like their work critiqued.

Best of luck to you. I will be following this one.

I am doing artificial stone veneer by Dutch Quality Stone in their ledgestone product.

Forget what you or the mason want: What do the manufacturer's installation instructions specify for the minimum spacing in those locations? Are you following them?

If you have an area that can trap water behind or between stones and it freezes, you can kiss that stone goodbye in a very short time.

I live in TX where contractors hire Hispanics to do a lot of the work including tiling, stone/brick work. They do very good work, but I would never consider them to be craftsman. When they did my house I made the comment to the foreman what beautiful work they do. His comment back to me was if they *don't* do quality work, they no longer will be working for the company. Jobs are hard to find at the moment, and they know it.

Sorry I haven't responded until now. I really appreciate everyones blunt comments, good wishes and advise! : )

I have gotten several responses on the remodeling forum and now have great concerns regarding this entire job. UGH! My stress level has been high for over 12 months and I can hardly take another day of it. And this guy takes the cake!

I am calling Dutch Quality Stone in a minute to see who to direct pictures to. I believe my job needs to be brought to their attention.

Everytime I look at my arch my heart just sinks. So I know that it needs to be torn off and that I have to tell him today.

Thanks, everyone, for responding.

Sandy

Sandy,
Deep breaths....it'll all work out.

caroleoh thats really cool ,,i like the placement of sofa and also the plasma on wall..

Here is a link that might be useful: modern furniture

Just got off the phone with Betty at Dutch Quality Stone. Very pleasant to talk to and she offered to have me email her pictures and she would make sure that they were looked at. So off the pictures went.

pattycakes, I wish I would have hired one of the hispanic crews! I got four quotes and chose a local small business to handle it: a father and son operation, third generation. Rosendo and Javier were each less money but I opted to pay a little more.

The hispanics would have broughten in 6 guys and finished in 2 weeks. This guy said two weeks and we are over two months now. If I were getting a beautiful job, I wouldn't be saying a word...but crappy work AND slow?! Can you tell I'm frustrated? : )

S.

Not sure I understand this statement a few posts above:

"They do very good work, but I would never consider them to be craftsman."

Why not?

Like Patty_Cakes, I live in Texas, and the vast majority of construction work here is done by Hispanic crews. MANY (certainly not all, but MANY) of the workers have very little training, which is a shame, because I've rarely seen a better work ethic or attitude. To say they "aren't craftsmen" is a gross over-simplification, but it would probably be accurate to say that the most of these workers could benefit greatly from some on-the-job training with specific instruction regarding the desired result.

Good luck with the Dutch Stone folks -- I know they'll be 'impressed' by the workmanship...

Not sure I understand this statement a few posts above:
"They do very good work, but I would never consider them to be craftsman."

Why not?

I'm sure she said that meaning most of the ones she has run across in her state/area don't do work well enough to be considered true "craftsmen." I have yet to see one in my area do decent work. The faux stone down the street from me looks like 2nd graders did it - both inside and outside. The house across the street had hispanic framers and brickmasons. If you get anywhere close to the house, you see the brick is off in numerous places - and it's a 2M$ house. They make some things up as they go along. The framing is horrible, but at least you can't "see" it since the brick covers the problems.... for now.

As Sweeby stated, they are not well trained, but willing to do anything and do have a good worth ethic/attitude. The only hispanics we had on our house were the roofers, who did an excellent job but did not speak English. The second time they were about to tear down the scaffolding around the chimney (copper cladding had not been finished and we had to pay the framers to come put back up after they had torn it down the first time!), DH was livid.

When we built a summer home in CO years ago, the immigrants, hispanics, or whatever you want to call them to be PC did a great job on our home. They would be considered craftsmen, imo. The ones who do a bad job - no matter where they are from - are workmen.

I think referring to people as "the hispanics" sounds quite condescending because race should have nothing to do with the job.

I guess I consider someone who does "very good work" when working with stone, a craftsman. That's what I didn't understand. I agree that one who does a lousy job is a worker, but that's not what was stated.

Holy cow, I sure didn't mean to start a 'culture' war.

I apologize if anyone was offended by my using the term 'the hispanics'. I could have called them illegals or Mexicans or undocumented workers but didn't.

But they are worthy of special mention simply because they typically work quickly, are very reliable and offer their services at a discounted price. My experience is that not many of them speak english well enough to communicate their problem solving skills, but I have appreciated, tipped and fed them well nonetheless! : )

S.

My brickmasons were Italian and let me know it on more than one occasion. We referred to them as Italian's several times. No disrespect intended and none was taken. It's not a slam. It's their heritage. Geez. Same with Hispanic workmen.

It gets pretty old seeing posters called out for something misread on the part of others. It's easy to twist words.

Jboling, her saying they did "good work" didn't even register with me earlier. I "saw" something different. Been a long day.

Sandy, when we added the new room and did remodeling to the rest of the house which included 4 paint colors, I certainly understand what you mean by them not speaking English.

The guys who did the new room did a wonderful paint job, but they only did one paint color and we left the trim paint up to the carpenter who framed it because there was a lot of wood.

I could hardly communicate with them! They were here for a week because the room is so big, and I remember many times I was home alone and they'd come ask me a question, and I didn't understand a word. We used hand signals. Fortunately the painting turned out fine, and they did have good work ethics. I was very comfortable.

But when it came to painting the rest of the house including the kitchen cabinets, we hired men who spoke English because there was too much painting and communicating to explain exactly what I wanted.

Where I live, everyone here knows most of them are illegal, but as long as they do good work, it's fine by me. However, one day I was home alone and was waiting for two guys to come and do some light texturing to ONE room, a small room. Instead of two men, EIGHT men showed up! And not one could speak English! I have to be honest, but it scared me. They brought their buddies and probably fellow family members for a job that would last maybe 30 minutes, tops. When the head guy tried to ask me how light I wanted the texture and neither of us could understand each other, not even with hand signals, I freaked out and called the builder and he got over here right away and made them ALL go home. That's when we hired guys who spoke english and knew what the heck they were doing! Sure we paid bigger bucks, but it was worth it. That day by far was THE strangest day of the whole remodel.

I was floored when the head guy took liberty and brought eight men to my home! And I don't care what nationality they were, to tell you the truth, it scared the daylights out of me. I let my builder HAVE IT! He apologized profusely for weeks. lol

I *knew* I would come under fire for my comment re:Hispanics. It shouldn't be taken as derogatory, since it's a fact contractors hire laborers who can give them more bang for their buck.

As for them being craftmen in the true sense of the word, they are not~certification from a trade school is usually required for the title. Masons they are not.

As I said, they did awesome work on my house, as well as many others in the area, and I would personally hire them to do any future stone/brick work. Their work was done meticulously as well as the clean up.

If I offended anyone, I apologize. ;o)

This was linked to another recent thread, but I feel compelled to reply now.

My husband is a union brick-layer, he has been unemployed since May. I showed him this fiasco, he said "They could've had me. Twenty-nine years experience and I'm sitting at home." Good for you patty cakes that they "did awesome work" but please consider before you "personally hire them to do any future stone/brick work" that you are hurting your fellow American. My husband has an awesome portfolio to back it up too; he is a true craftsman! Remember, you get what you pay for.

I am surprised you didn't get some who are so "PC" conscious to say you needed to say "LATINOS" lol. You know the majority of hispanics in labor intensive jobs are here against the law, the 'law' that was respected and in place when my grandparents came over with their parents. So I am not offended at all by calling them Hispanics since a high % should be called criminals and illegal IMNSHO.
Like she said, she lives in TX which is a different story. No offense taken here by me, for sure. Good luck with your stone problem. Stay strong, Patty!

prairiegirl, where do you live? rom your GW name, I'm guessing it is midwest, so then I couldn't help. If it is mid-Atlantic, let me know. Can't do a lot, but could maybe help in a small way with referrals and jobs.

Cynthia

What a shame. Stop him before he does any more. Put in writing what you want and attach pictures and also add that you have talked to him several times and he said it couldn't be done. Make sure you keep any stones left over because you are liable for them but not for his labor. Call the mfg, like someone else said, and ask them to send you a copy of their specs. They might even send someone out.

sorry about the above. I didn't check the date. How did everything come out?