bronwynsmom...You are so good at giving answers that truely make us think! Thank you for your wisdom.

" Tendencies exacerbated by situations.
Predispositions turned on by particular stresses.
Pre-conditioned self-soothing behavior ratcheted up by fearfulness. "

I think it is heavily weighed towards environmental or nurtured. If you watch the trailer to the movie on hoarding that is posted on another thread, the hoarder had a period in her childhood of extreme poverty.

My theory is that's why we hear about so many elderly hoarders. The Great Depression of the 1930s was a time of great poverty for many, followed by the scarcities in the early 1940's during World War 2, when there was rationing.

So now in 2008, think of the worst case senario: an elderly person with short term memory problems but vivid recollections of past events, living alone on a limited income and holding on to stuff as security. Yet they live in a consumer-filled society where nothing is in short supply, so it's real easy to dumpster dive and collect.

I'll cast my vote for genetics...fair and square. My husband will only throw things away under EXTREME duress. Shipping boxes, clothes he'll never ever wear again, magazines he has or hasn't read and will never get to, scraps of paper with old notes. Ugh. Having said that...his parents still live in the same house they moved into more than 50 years ago. I don't think they have ever thrown out a single solitary thing. The very large basement is chockablock with stuff stuff stuff. Closets are bursting. Garage barely has room for the car. It makes me crazy, as I'm pretty much the opposite...can't stand clutter. There...I've vented and I feel so much better. Thanks for the opportunity. :D

This can also carry over into the work environment. Many people I've worked with in office situations also hoard . . .work, files, etc. Most of the time, there is a level of fear involved. Obviously at work, you have to be careful. A lot of these folks were professional people (lawyers, accountants, etc.). Once I got to know each person, they typically had an underlying fear . . . fear of people thinking they didn't have enough to do so they kept everything (and kept it a messy manner) was a typical one I dealt with. Most of the time, it stemmed from a trauma in childhood (didn't have anything so you hang onto everything) and/or afraid of what someone might say if they got rid of something someone had given to them (even if it was a stick of gum -- they kept the wrapper)! That one tends seems to come from lack of love. Although not a hoarder, I had a hard time with that one due to lack of nurturing in childhood. I have a great deal of sympathy for these folks! SM (a/k/a Messy Mo)

Let's not get hoarding confused with cluttering. They are two different animals. I clutter sometime, but never hoard. I love throwing stuff out!! LOL My sister calls me a "maniac" when it comes to cleaning out because I love to throw things away. She refused to let me in her house to help her "clean up." She's afraid, very afraid I'll toss too much of her stuff that I consider clutter. HA!

bronwyn's explanation says it all, I think.

My husband is a saver but not a hoarder. I on the other hand don't have a problem letting go (except for Christmas decorations). He is now disabled but before if he saw a sale on toilet paper he would buy way to many, also paper towels, windex, etc. I had enough windex for a year and was giving it away. He wasn't raised my his father and never even met him until he was close to 30. He went to visit his dad a few years later and when you went in the dining room what do you see but stacks of paper towel, toilet paper and other things. I thought it was so funny because he didn't learn it from him but he sure had the same gene.

Interesting about your husband and his father, dd...

There's a fabulous little book (long out of print) called "Write Me a Poem, Baby," by H. Allen Smith, and it is a collection of the poems and stories of the children of people in the publishing business in New York in the '50's, when it was a small, WASPy, ivy league industry for the most part. One of them was about one such child's family dog, which was half daschund and half beagle. One breed is home loving and the other longs to roam, and the dog spent the whole day stepping on and off the curb, torn miserably by the two sides of his nature.

I resonate with this dog.
In the genetic predisposition department, I am clearly a mixed breed. I am naturally messy, but I can't bear the results, so I make a mess, clean it up, make a mess, clean it up...and vow over and over to develop the habit of stopping before I have to, so I can take ten or fifteen minutes to "leave no trace," as some wise person on this forum suggested. I keep things not so much because I need to, but because I just left them there, and now I have to put them somewhere...

(I just looked on line, and Amazon has some sellers who have this book.)

bronwynsmom, O.K. I ordered the book! Sounds cute by the reviews. That one click ordering at Amazon gets me into alot of trouble/clutter!

I am mostly sure it's a brain infection; Possibly a retrovirus or a Spirochete as in lyme disease.
There may be others such as Herpes 6 virus and Mycoplasma.
Hording or OCD is prevalent with CFS and lyme disease .

My ex was an extreme hoarder. His father was a hoarder. Drove my MIL nuts. He's been gone for 5 years and MIL still hasn't made a dent in his mess. 'Nuf said.

My parents both grew up in extreme poverty. My dad says he grew up "shoeless in the summer, going to bed hungry poor." Both of my parents are frugal and neat. They have never hoarded. To them, it's a waste of $ to stock up on stuff you are not using. They have always bought what they will eat that week, use that week, etc. Their house is spotless and my mom's pantry looks like something in a magazine - enough to cook, but not overstocked.

I am like my parents. I live 3 blocks from a grocery. Even if something is a KILLER sale, I only buy what I will use. There will always be another sale, and if I need anything I can walk to the store in about 10 minutes, or drive in 2.

I see hoarding a fear - lack of faith that LIFE/GOD/UNIVERSE or whatevery you call it will provide what you need when you need it. I live in the peace that only comes from faith in the future. I know I will always have what I need, when I need it.

I don't think it's genetics or environment. I think we are all born whole and complete, and then we manifest the personality we came into this world with. I have 3 sons who could not be more different, two are messy but in totally different ways, one is neat. None of them are like their dad or like me. They are themselves and I just have to clean around it! LOL

Dh and I both come from hoarding families. I think it is a learned process. I don't think I could be a hoarder to the extint of the people I see on tv, but I certainly have some of the tendancies. I don't like to see resources wasted so it is hard to throw stuff away. I'm happy to give it away if someone can use it. I'm due for a big cleanout this year. I'm self motivated to do it.

Both. My parents were both hoarders. After he retired, Dad drove around "collecting" broken bicycles and lawn mowers. A tree on his property died. A relative offered to cut it down and haul it away to use as firewood. Dad said "No, why should I give him free firewood?" When dad died in 1998, my brother had to throw out all that stuff. Their 2 and a half car garage had become unusable. Mom also saved everything. Her house contained three sets of furniture: hers, a deceased cousins, and my brothers stuff from after his divorce. Did you ever see a living room with three full-length sofas? She had it.Mom bought a new cabinet for her kitchen . What did she do with the old one? Turned it on its' side and put it in the living room with the 3 sofas. Mom died in January. Brother is still going through the process of throwing out collected coffee cans and margarine tubs. Of their four kids, brother is not a hoarder, I am "medium", one sister is non-hoarder and seems "Born Organized". I went to her house one day for lunch, asked if she'd seen a particular story in the morning newspaper. She'd already put it in the recycling box in her garage. Other sister is a bad hoarder, exactly like Mom and Dad. Her house is completely stuffed with piles, also her garage and -get this- a big barn in back. And she regularly baby sits her one year old Granddaughter, who is at the walking and exploring stage. We all worry about the baby.

I am beginning to think it is genetic. My husband is a hoarder within reason, by that I mean he has things neatly kept in boxes and containers and labeled, but he also has stuff piled up all over. Big piles. I finally had to put a container next to the microwave where he drops off receipts, slips of paper, pencils, pens blue, pills, keys. The container was for his lose change but once he filled one container and I took it to the basement where he has a room full of the boxes etc and old gym equipment he doesn't use but won't get rid of. That container is only half full of change and he doesn't seem to want to put any more in it. Which is another thing, he keeps containers in the fridge with only a little bit left in it so he doesn't have to throw it away. We also have two storage units full of his stuff. He used to build wooden boats so we have tons of wood. We are in retirement age now and he is having to keep a part time job just to pay for his storage units. I refuse. But back to why I think it is genetic. His sister is the same way and now that his son is living with us, his bedroom is looking the same way as the rest of the house. I think one of his parents were like this because I remember when dating him in school, going over to his house and I was confined to a very small area and he seemed embarrassed about his situation. His father was a professor and his mother was a professional as well, so I don't think it is anything related to the depression. I also think, there are aunts and uncles who are the same way because we are never invited into their homes. I am new into this marriage and should have seen things, but love is blind plus he was an old boy friend for high school. I also know that when something is damaged or gets lost, he goes into a funk for days. It is almost like losing someone real close. It is hard for me to understand because I am not that attached to stuff!!! This paradise is turning into hell and I only hope I die before him because I don't want to have to deal with this mess!!! Thanks for letting me rant .

Hoarding is a mental illness, and so it's mostly genetic. Like some mental illnesses, there are degrees of the disease, so some are managing their disease and symptoms well and keeping them in control (like people with mild depression) and others are so afflicted that they can't control it to keep it from negatively affecting their lives.