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bumblebe_gw

Windows over the sink?

14 years ago

Our kitchen remodel includes shortening 6 double hung windows so that we can put cabinets (including a sink) under the windows. I have always preferred the double hung windows, but I am getting opinions from window people that double hungs are hard to reach and open over a counter and that we should look at awning or casement windows. My preference is still the double hung.

Does anyone regret putting double hung windows over a counter?

Thanks in advance!

Comments (27)

  • 14 years ago

    To me, nothing beats the look of double hung. People report here often that they've been told the same thing about the reach factor. Some do it anyway and are perfectly fine. Mine are utilitarian side sliders. :-/

    How tall are you? Can you somehow mock the dimensions up and see if you're comfortable with it? You have double hung now so put a piece of furniture or boxes about 25-26" from the wall (cab box plus counter overhang) and see how it feels. I mocked up many situations when deciding on dimensions for our whole house reno. I was sometimes surprised by what I discovered.

  • 14 years ago

    Do you have double hung in the rest of your house?
    If so, double hung might be a good choice for your kitchen.

    We converted from casement to double hung with our recent kitchen reno --
    we wanted the kitchen to match the style of the rest of the windows in our 1920s house.

    Although we do manage to get the double hung windows open when we need to,
    there is no denying that they are not as convenient to open as the casement, crank out window.

    {{!gwi}}

  • 14 years ago

    I think your window people have a point. I've always had double-hungs above the kitchen sink and although I love the look I've always found them way too hard to operate. And I'm not even short (5'6"). One day, if it's ever in the budget, I'll change them.

    I'd try breezygirl's mock-up idea. Also consider how much you open/close windows, based on your climate etc. We do open windows whenever possible in the Spring/Summer/Fall, but if your family has seasonal allergies and goes right from heat to AC and back -- maybe it's not that big a deal. Finally -- are there any options that look like double hung but operate like casement?

  • 14 years ago

    I have a double hung over my sink now and although it's not as easy as others probably, I can operate it just fine. I'm onlny 5'2".

  • 14 years ago

    Thanks for all the responses. We live in Colorado - windows are crucial most of the summer. I will try the mock up idea as well. I'm afraid this decision should have been made sooner since anything non-standard (i.e. not available at Lowes...) is going to take 3-4 weeks to get in and we probably will be ready for them next week. So that potentially puts the whole project back 2-3 weeks, unless we put plywood in until the windows are in.

    It's amazing how nice some of the new casement windows look. I think I would be satisifed with that look, although worried about the mechanics failing.

    Keep sending suggestions, comments!

    Maybe suggestions for brands of double hungs that operate easier than others?

  • 14 years ago

    Plywood windows and doors. Very familiar with that. Don't let the windows stop forward progress if at all possible.

    What window material are you wanting? Wood? Vinyl?

  • 14 years ago

    We've chosen double hung for our whole house BUT over the sink I'm going with casements. Don't love them however per se but I had a double hung over my sink once and it was just too difficult to get open. Also, since it was a small window the wood fram across the center of the window bothered my view. I like the wide open view of the casements over the sink and the ease of cranking. That's enough of a trade off for me. If I lived in an historic house, I'd probably choose different though, fwiw.

  • 14 years ago

    About casement mechanics failing: we worried about that, too, and don't really like the look of the hardware. So we'll install pushout casements. Don't think it's a generally available option, though, not sure. We're ordering Winsor Pinnacle Select, which does offer pushouts. Good luck choosing!

  • 14 years ago

    What are pushout casements?

  • 14 years ago

    Every window in our house is casement, save 6 double hung.
    They were wood and original to the house which was built in 1923 so in 2009 we replaced them with Marvin Infinity windows.
    So far no hardware problems.
    If you'll head over to the windows forum, you may be able to pick up more info.

  • 14 years ago

    Keep in mind the screen issues when looking at side hung (casements) and top hung (awnings). If you want the side hung window to swing out, then your screen must be on the interior of the room. I, personally, couldn't force myself to do that look. If you want the screen on the exterior, then the side hung will need to swing in. Do you have enough room to do that without hitting the faucet?

    The awning windows need to have a screen on the interior so the window bottom can swing out.

  • 14 years ago

    Pushout casements are just what they sound like. Rather than unlatching and cranking (and cranking, and cranking...), you just unlatch and push the window out. The ones we tested feel very sturdy and won't blow open, I'm told.

    As for screens, I couldn't live with fixed screens inside, either, Breezy. We're getting integrated pulldown screens, but there are lots of pulldown screens for installation after the fact.

  • 14 years ago

    We're getting casements for the kitchen only, with screens that roll up and retract into the walls (or something???). We went to a Marvin windows place and I was relieved at how easy they were to open. The ones in our rental are a bear, or I'm missing something about them!

    It was weird - when I said to the architect and contractor something like "will all of these windows be able to open, or only some of them?" they were like, "Oh, you want to be able to OPEN the windows in the kitchen?" My husband said he didn't care one way or the other and he still doesn't. One area of mutual incomprehension - there are not very many, thank goodness!

  • 14 years ago

    OMG- never thought about the screens with casement!

  • 14 years ago

    Sounds like the decision will rest on what you like and prefer. As is true for other posters, we've had casements for several years and had no problems with the mechanism.* We don't mind the screens on the inside. Just never think about it -- now though, of course, I'm going to notice them more!

    One point that's not been mentioned is airfow. We live in NE and in the summer generally don't need AC, especially if we can get good cross breezes. After we purchased our house in 1997, we started replacing all the double-hungs with casements. We get so much more airflow with them.

    The caveat is that we do not have an historic house, so casements look just fine.

    * I just remembered that one set did make a stuttering/groaning noise when we cranked them open. The Anderson website suggested getting some dry silicon spray. That did the trick!

  • 14 years ago

    I'm not understanding the screen argument.
    It seems to me that casement or double hung, you'll still need screens.
    The only difference will be whether the screens are on the outside or inside.
    Either way you'll have screens.
    The way I see it, I'd rather have the screens on the inside, as they'll be less subject to weather and thus easier to maintain

  • 14 years ago

    We have double hung windows everywhere except the kitchen & the dormers which are casements. In the kitchen particularly it came down to me being able to reach the window to open & close it. In our last house, I may have opened the window once in 10 years because it was so difficult for me to reach. The one time I opened it, the top sash fell some and I had to get a chair to stand on to get the darn thing closed again. Our current kitchen windows are 12 3/4" from the countertop--no way I would be able to operate a double hung. The windows are 4' tall which would put the upper sash of a double hung at 8'--so we're back to the chair or counter if the upper sash were to fall.

    I don't think it looks strange at all to have casements on the kitchen window and double hungs everywhere else. We toured a Parade home last year that a non-operable casement window in a bathroom right next to a double hung in a bedroom. I didn't notice until I went back around the exterior of the house a 2nd time-and at that point I only noticed because I was trying to sneak a photo of the master bath through the window (no cameras allowed inside). Once I did notice it, I stood back and casually looked at the house to see if the difference stood out, and it did not--only if you knew what to look for. Granted the windows did have grilles between the glass--if you're going with windows without grids, it will definitely be noticeable as the casements won't have anything dividing the window in the middle.

    I think alot of your decision should rest on how high your window will be from the counter & how tall your window will be. There are many pics on GW of windows where the sill basically sits on the counter or right on top of the 4" backsplash. My mom has one that sits on the backsplash and if it was a double hung, it would be very easy for me to open it and close it. However if the upper sash fell, I would be back to getting a chair or standing on the counter or both to reach it and get it back in place (the top of her window sits at ~9').

    Hope this helps!

  • 14 years ago

    Well, surely I can't be the only one who doesn't want an ugly wire mesh screen staring me in the face inside my lovely new kitchen. I know I have funny views about things though, but I just can't see marble and a utilitarian bug-associated (in my head window screens equal bugs and spiderwebs, but yes, I know those won't be happening inside) screen working together INSIDE my kitchen.

  • 14 years ago

    Breezy, I don't know where you're located.
    We're on Long Island and I have never found bugs who have flown at sufficient speed to permanently embed themselves into my window screens to be a problem.
    We recently replaced our windows
    For us, due to the design of our house Casements were the only option.
    When we replaced our windows we went with Marvin.
    Mostly because we thought they had the best product for our purposes and, in part, because they have what they call a high visibility screen.
    The screen is made of a thin fiberglass mesh that, while not invisible, is certainly more transparent than the typicle wire mesh screen that we're all used to seeing.
    Here's a shot to illustrate both the transparancy and the window location problem.


    BTW, if I had the space I'd want your kitchen.
    Especially that luscious island top.

  • 14 years ago

    I'm liking the roll up screens that were mentioned prior. I have to say the screens in my current kitchen window kinda bug me for a day or so after they go in and then, like most things I don't notice them anymore.

  • 14 years ago

    I have casement windows over my sink and I think they are awful. with double hung you might have to reach to open them, but at least they stay open and you can control how much or how little air you want to let in to your kitchen.

  • 14 years ago

    I had a double hung window in our last kitchen and it was awkward. I think I may have opened it once or twice in 6 years, and we are a family that opens windows all over most of the late Spring, Summer and early Fall.
    We have no windows in our current kitchen as we laid the table area by the windows, but we did put an awning window in our dining room. I wanted it high up and wider, and this fit the bill. We have casements on the bedroom windows and our master bath, but put in double hungs when we extended the master bedroom itself. Those match with the ones on the same wall in the kitchen and den, but I would not have minded if they didn't. I would choose function over form most of the time if it were not the front of the house.
    I love how an awning window can be left open more often because if it rains, there is less chance of it coming inside. It also is prettier to me because you don't have the bulky break in the middle. The casements put in by previous owners had the middle part and could/should have been single ones instead of doubles because of the width.

    The screens come in different shades these days and can be near invisible like willtv's. Frankly, a screen is a screen and when open to a kitchen, the bug factor is virtually the same. If you have webs, clean them. I can pop my screens out easier on the casements and awning windows for cleaning from the inside, so that may be a benefit. In fact, the screens will probably wear better and longer for having them on the inside part of the window. They should be cleaner since they are protected from the elements when the window is not open.

  • 14 years ago

    Wow! You guys are great!

    Thanks for all the input, all the opinions, etc. You have given us so much to think about! I really wish we had started thinking about this sooner - I'm feeling a bit rushed with this decision. We are hoping to have a usable kitchen by the end of March, so we need to get windows ordered!

    I did post on the windows forum - not much action there....

    Our house was built in the 70s and we have a mix of casement and double hung windows. While it is easy to complain about our issues with the casement mechanisms, truth be told, our double hungs have issues as well. Some of them I can't budge, have to call my husband in to close tightly. Can't imagine trying to reach over a countertop as well.... I like the idea of the push out casements - I think we'll look into those as well. Looks like Marvin might sell some of those.

    Another possible option is - we have a rental house with awful sliding windows - I think they are still single pane! The windows in the rental are the same size as the windows in our kitchen. I'm tempted to just put in slider windows from Lowes for now, with the intention of moving those windows to the rental when we are ready to make this decision. One advantage of that is to delay the cost of the new windows. We're at that remodel stage where every time we turn around, there's a new expense - it is all adding up!

    Thanks again!

  • 14 years ago

    bumblebe, I'm not an expert, and only know what I've been told, which is this: once a window has been installed, it's very difficult to reinstall it properly elsewhere. (Our kitchen reno includes a bumpout, but at one point (because of expense - YIKES!) we considered doing the bumpout later, reusing the new windows we'd have put in the current space. We were told that was a no-go.) People buy used windows all the time at reuse centers, so what do they know that my architect/contractor don't know? Anyway, might be worth checking into before considering reusing windows...

  • 14 years ago

    I adore my double-hungs over the sink. But they are all wood, from 1921, and with minimal regular maintenance they glide like silk. We used to have vinyl replacements that were so cumbersome and awkward to move and handle (that "tip-in-to-wash" feature is a total sadistic joke) that we actually went back to original single-pane wood with insulated wooden storms. (At the risk of proselytizing, I will say that they are much warmer and tighter and vastly more attractive than those awful replacements were, and I dare say they will last about 100 years longer.)

    Our screens hang outside the window entirely (replacing the storms every summer), which is perfect because it gives us that much more screened-in windowsill; we have them open most of the season. If that's at all available in new window manufacture, I highly recommend it -- it's where my little herb pots sit all summer long. IF I can keep the cats off.

  • 14 years ago

    On the Andersen website under casements there are 2 screen options-- none of them being the roll out kind, but they do have those with other windows on their site...