Paint instead.

Wallpaper is so subject to change as to make it a shame to use it. For a lot less money you can buy tons of paint. You will tire of the pattern in a few years, and it is a sure thing that the next owners will hate what you put up, so why give them and yourselves the task of removing more paper?

Paper was used mainly to cover defects or as a finish surface for unfinished plaster--that is not your situation.

This post was edited by columbusguy1 on Sat, Dec 15, 12 at 0:44

"Paint instead."
That is a pretty subjective statement.
By all means wallpaper. First make sure the walls are "baby butt"smooth, apply a quality wall covering primer( Gardz, Sheildz), apply the paper.
The paper job could and should last for 20 years or more.
A paint job? Maybe 5 years

I do both for a living but am a paper hanger at heart.

" sizing " is just an old term from the past and really has no bearing today.
It was actually old glue( real glue made from horse hooves and such) or paste,applied to porous plaster before wallpaper was applied. It is just not relevant today.A good WALLCOVERING primer is what you need, not a regular wall primer

Use a primer meant for wallpaper first, to keep the wallpaper glue from soaking into the pores of the plaster.

Then whatever you apply will be easy to remove if you change your mind.

Columbusguy - In an old house, decorative wallpaper was probably the finish of choice for those who could afford it. If you install a period-appropriate paper it should last years.

My mom wallpapered my bedroom in 1960 ... it was still fresh and vivid the day they moved out in 1998. We had repainted the room several times over the years, but the wallpaper was so pretty we kept matching to the colors it had. The other wallpapers had been stripped (and with primed walls it was easy)

I figured I'd be attacked. :)

My point was, wallpaper is subjective taste-wise--you may like it now, but ten years on, it will become boring and you want to change it...and almost certainly the next owners will. Why give yourself the trouble of removing wallpaper again.

I hate to disagree, but my painted walls have been the same color for nearly fifteen years, and do not need repainting so far--I'd far rather paint again than remove wallpaper like I did when I moved in--1/8 inch or so deep, with paint in between--I think there were at least four layers.

I am not against wallpaper--I used a nice border in my entry, and have another all set to go in my dining room--I'm just thinking of the work involved in removing it--if you have gotten down to sound plaster, I see no reason to give yourself more work later on.

Ah, interesting point, the modern wallpapers I have removed were indeed over primed drywall.

Removing the paper from the old plaster was also pretty easy; perhaps there was "sizing" under the first layer. There is a scaper made for the purpose which took of sections we'd pre-scored, and then the last bits wiped off easily once wetted.

It hadn't occurred to me that one should maybe prime the old plaster - and one reason we don't want to paint (besides the fact that we LOVE wallpaper) is that the plaster is so attractive, so cool looking with what I take to be mottled colour transferred from old papers, that we don't feel right covering it for good. However, I will look into wallcovering primer - didn't know it existed. I do have an old container of sizing; will have to see what it actually is and if it will do the job.

We wallpapered some walls in the house when we first renovated almost 20 years ago and some has gone, some has stayed. Many patterns are really timeless, and if they suit the space they are hard to beat for ambience. The thing that reduces their lifespan is holes from hanging things - the difficulty of doing this is the one limitation of wallpaper I don't like. We'll use the "triangular cut" method to avoid excessive damage. And picture rail hooks.

I appreciate everyone's perspective!

Karin L

Primer works fine.

Any and all wall paper can be easily removed ,IF and only IF, it is properly primed with a wallpaper specific primer first.It is that simple. Lazy paper installers or home owners that did not take the time( and it takes all of an hour) to prime first then run into the nightmare of removal.
Also it is not wall paper GLUE, it is paste or adhesive. Glue has not been used for a hundred years. Well, except for the morons that put Elmer's or super glue on the seams.

' and it takes all of an hour"

Maybe to apply, but not to dry.

And you do not need "wallpaper specific primer."

That is a new 'invention.'

And you do not need "wallpaper specific primer."
Please explain

Any decent primer will form a barrier ad prevent the wallpaper paste from soaking into the plaster.

Alkyd primers used to be preferred, but VOC rules have removed many of them from the market and the remaining ones are not nearly as good as the older ones (unless you cheat and put the VOCs back in (Penetrol)).

Even latex primer will form a smooth coating and prevent paste from penetrating.

Most new papers are listed as 'strippable.'

Pull them off, wash with warm water to take off any paste residue, and put up new after the wall is dry.

This post was edited by brickeyee on Sun, Dec 16, 12 at 20:37

Well, in theory, this would be OK, but in reality it is not. MOST primers do not form a hard enough surface for the paste not to penetrate, that is why a specific wall covering primer is needed.I am not making this up, it is from years of experience.As to the oil, it has not been the accepted primer for many years( this from the paste manufacturers.)

We used plain old primer for how many years before the marketing folks came along

We used plain old primer for how many years before the marketing folks came along

Have you tried stripping the paper after?

Finally found my container of wall size. It says "Wallsize powder is for the sealing of all porous surfaces. The ideal wallsize for improving adhesion and slip for easy hanging." On the main label it emphasizes "more slip" which does address a major headache of papering on surfaces that may be uneven - tearing the paper as you close first this gap, then that gap, then the first one again, or try to pull out a crease that's appeared.

I've mixed up a batch and it really is like paste; the longer you leave it, the more pasty it gets.

Since it does say it seals, I think we will give this a try. Thanks for the pointers about sealing, even if there is disagreement about method, because I hadn't registered the significance of a porous surface on any count - hanging, adhesion, or removing.

Merry Christmas to all,

Karin L

My argument for priming was mostly for the removal process not installation. You're old box of wall "size" will work great to install it but when the time comes to remove it, you will have the same nightmare as has been described here countless times.

PS, not so much on plaster but it will still be way harder than if it was primed first

PSS, I really do know what I am talking about.

Christophern, I don't doubt it. But as often happens, the "right" answer varies a bit with context and preference.

We really don't want to do anything that covers the plaster for good. It is so cool looking that if anyone ever strips the paper again, the original plaster should be visible. I don't know why, but that's important to me. Kind of like other people feel about original windows.

The other thing that swayed me was that we just stripped paper off this wall, and I assume there was either wallsize used 60 years ago, or nothing, and the paper came off well enough. The plaster is very hard and was unscathed by the removal. The new paper is not quite as "papery" for lack of a better term, but the backing is paper and I have removed several modern papers quite successfully - pull off the top layer and then with water spray and time to soak, it is always possible. I've read the nightmares, but I've never really had one. Tedious work, yes, but always do-able.

What I have taken away from this thread is that if priming is desirable over plaster, it is likely essential over drywall, and there, I must admit, I am not sure there are not some nightmares lurking somewhere in the house under wallpaper we applied 20 years ago. I hope we primed everywhere, but if we find we didn't, I will be thinking of you :-) Also, I am sure the thread will be of use to others facing different plasters to paper over.

Karin L

Karin
I agree with all you said. Don't think of me in a bad way (:)

I had a Waverley toile paper installed by a guy who told me to apply sizing over my primed plaster walls. So far, so good. I'll let you know how it is to remove when I get sick of it; so far I still love it six years later.

"We used plain old primer for how many years before the marketing folks came along

Have you tried stripping the paper after?"

Many many times.

Often many years latter.

It has nothing to do with the primer being "hard."

It just needs to be a descent film with few defects.

Plaster has always been easier to strip than drywall.

The cardboard surface on drywall is not very strong, and any water used to aid stripping softens it if their is not a decent barrier present.
Like a coat of decent quality primer applied well.

Ain't that the problem... the same person rarely both installs and removes, so it's hard to learn "what works!"

As I said earlier, I have removed wallpaper I've hung without sizing from drywall, and also from some furniture I've wallpapered in the past (this looks better than it sounds, really :-)), and I find as long as you can soak it long enough, it will come off well enough that you can avoid surface damage (just a few gouges/paper pulls on the drywall, if I recall correctly).

Having now hung some of the paper, I will say that the slip factor that the sizing offers is a significant advantage over working without it, and that's possibly partly because the plaster has a serious wonk factor - it's wavy as anything, which is part of its charm. Despite that, and the fact that these panels are almost 9 feet each, the paper did not wrinkle at all and the seam matches went very well. Even if they hadn't, this is such a significant improvement over what we've been looking at for 20 years (which you can just see at the right edge of the photo) that little flaws wouldn't bother me. Our new renovation motto is "95% is good enough!"

And I sincerely hope I will not be the person who removes this paper :-)

Karin L

" plaster has a serious wonk factor - it's wavy as anything, which is part of its charm."

Sounds like second rate plaster job.

Plaster walls should be as smooth and flat as glass.

Any less than flat condition without cracks is a clear marker of a second rate job.

Unless it is actually 'textured' on purpose.

Not all that uncommon on 'non-public' rooms on the second floor.
The less experienced apprentice plasterers often get assigned this work to learn the skill.

This post was edited by brickeyee on Fri, Jan 25, 13 at 15:16