Hi there Laurie. I am very sporadic here these days, so missed your earlier thread (although did read it, thanks for the link). some things pop out to me:

consider the travel path from fridge to prep sink (quite a distance), even if you will store most fruits/veggies for prepping in the undercounter fridge, you will have to get other items from the fridge to whip up your dinners.

then consider your clean up traffic pattern from the table - maybe those sinks (and dishwasher) could be switched?

I concur that you will want another "put down" place for the MW. I currently have a landing right below, but frankly don't like how high my MW is and how far I have to land items. It does make sense to have it near the refrigerator though.

I have to run to pick DS up from school, but two quick thoughts:

1. switch the sinks as mairin suggests.

2. be careful about fridge and ovens right next to each other. The fridge could smack into the oven handles and dent. This has happened before, but someone just today said that their fridge opens enough but has a stop on it to prevent it from hitting their ovens. Hhhhhmmmm. Just take it into consideration when choosing.

oh and 3. if you have seating at the back of the island near the firdge it will interfere with the most logical landing spot for hot items coming out of the oven and MW.

Laurie- Your bay window over the sink will be so nice...and all the windows in the dining area (and slider) will make this room so inviting and sunny!

Are you planning on having a dining table? Is there going to be room with the desk? Have you thought about a corner banquette? It looks like you have about 8' between the island and the window wall...so that may be a little tight for a regular table and chairs.

As for the kitchen, I would switch the oven to where you have the undercounter fridge/ice maker. The fridge could then go where the wall oven is...with the microwave next to it, above the countertop. The undercounter fridge/ice maker could go under the microwave or maybe in the island.

The wall oven would be easy to use on the end of that cabinet, before the desk, since you probably don't have it open that often and you'd have the island for baking and not be working around the stools. The oven would be much more accessible.

If you really need a prep sink, I'd probably put it on the island or between the cooktop and fridge. Either way, it would be easier to use. If you put it between the fridge and cooktop, it would make a nice snack center, keeping others out of your work area.

Hope this helps...and just my two cents :)

Thanks to all of you.
The second sink was added later, I didn't really think I would use a prep sink instead of my big sink. I am almost always the only cook. The main reason people come to the sink and fridge now is to make coffee, get a drink of water and/or ice cubes. So the sink was added as more of a beverage place, coffee above, ice and bottled drinks below, filtered water at the tap. I want to make it a big enough sink that it could be used for prep if I had a crowd helping.
Thanks for the warning about the refer and oven doors, I will watch that.
Lavender, I had to search "corner banquette", I like what I see, thanks for the idea! I will mull it over and see how it could fit and me not lose my desk space. We have had concerns about room for a dining table, I can always shorten up the island if need be. Again, I'm hoping some time with a cabinet or kitchen designer to lay out cabinets etc will help decide if we have allowed room. Thanks for the observation, that is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping others would see.

So I guess I should have clarified the second sink earlier, sorry about that.

I'm having a problem with the placement of the frig. I feel like you'd be running back and forth too much. Get stuff from the frig, by-pass the cooktop, to sink, back to the cooktop. Could you put your frig where you now show the frig drawers? Then you could put a corner prep sink down by the range corner. I don't know if your a baker but if you are, the water source by the ovens would come in handy. I say the sink there cause I'm assuming you may want an uninterrupted island.

remodelfla,
I assume you mean put a prep sink to the left of the range? I like that idea; your changes would be big in the whole layout, I would lose my beverage center. But I agree, there is no perfect spot for the refrigerator. It's so strange, I now live in a kitchen where I can touch fridge, stove, sink, dw without moving a step, you would think I could figure it out with all this room to play with.
Thanks for the ideas, I will again rethink what I am planning.

Laurie

Your last post reminds me of what Buehl calls "small kitchen thinking" or something like that. Those of us who have had a small kitchen for so many years have trouble placing our appliances in a larger space. You want them close-by so they are handy, but yet they can impede on your work flow. Once when thinking about switching my ovens and fridge to make everything flow a little better, I couldn't imagine walking two extra steps to get to it from my prep zone! Wait, weren't we making our kitchens bigger so that we COULDN'T touch all the appliances without moving a step??! ;)

Sounds like you've thought about your prep sink needs some. I'd like to suggest you think a bit more. I'm the only cook at my house, too. I don't think that has anything to do with having a dedicated prep sink. One of my major wants in the new kitchen is to separate the cleanup zone from the prep zone. I can't stand prepping over dirty dishes in a sink. Hate, hate, hate it. Stuff gets in my way and slows me down. I can't wait to have two sinks in two distinct zones with nary an inch crossing.

If you decide to go with only one sink, make sure you place the DW out of the path between sink and cooktop just like in your graph paper drawing. That'll help with some separation. Also, I'm not sure what kind of sink you are planning, but if it's a double make sure that the cleanup side has a very large bowl for washing/soaking big pots and pans.

Oh, and Remodelfla is right about the sink being in the wrong location for the proper work flow. It goes food storage zone (pantry, fridge) to prep zone (including a water source) to cooking zone to cleanup zone.

I've been working on my plan for a year now. It can take a while! Hang in there!

The island looks a little awkward to me. I think I'd want it a little closer to the range with overhang in a L shape at the other end (2 seats on the end and two on the oven side. Not only is it nicer not to sit in a line, but the end near the range is free for prep and there's no stools to get in the way of the fridge and oven (you may have to make the island a foot longer to achieve this).

Islandlaurie, it's a very nice kitchen in some respects, but it looks veeery large and your dining space...inadequate and unloved, being gobbled up in the fun and excitement of planning your new kitchen.

Since you have plenty of space for both, I'd like to suggest protecting your dining area by designing it first, considering what you will need from it in coming years, deciding what are appropriate proportions for your home as a whole, placing and trying out furniture, making sure it's esthetically pleasing--and then confine the kitchen firmly to the space that leaves.

Hi again,
We spent a lot of time considering the ideas suggested. We made some changes and so I am back again, asking for another look.
The main change we made was to move the second sink over between the range and refrigerator. That lengthened that wall but that's ok.
We shortened up the island and moved the seating around the corner. It doesn't face the view but we will get swivel chairs.
We shortened up the exterior wall and put the desk storage area on hold until we know how the table fits in. I like the table in the corner.
We considered swapping the big fridge with the little undercounter one but no one liked it there. There really is no perfect place for it but I think having a sink closer will help.

So again, thanks for any opinions, anything is welcome!

Laurie

{{!gwi}}

This plan makes better sense, but will have you prepping facing the wall. If you want to be able to see around you, maybe visit with others, and really use the island to it's fullest potential, the prep sink would be better on the corner of the island closest to where you have it now.

Any reason you can't flip the "L" of the overhang? I'd rather have people sitting out of the way of the cook and away from the wall oven.

rhome,
I am not too worried about facing the wall. We don't have many people here often and I would just move my chopping over to the island if I want to socialize. But thank you for the observation. I kind of want to keep the island countertop clear.

marcolo,
Great idea, I'm even thinking maybe it should go around both sides, then we could seat 4 people and it would feel more like a table.

Thanks, so good so far, I really hope to get a few more opinions, maybe this bump will help!

Laurie

I agree with Rhome. Since you moved the stools, that 'southwest' corner of the island would be wonderful for the prep sink. Still close to the fridge and cooktop, but now your view would be out the big bay window :)

Moving the stools seems like a good idea, because now you have a much better landing space for the ovens. However, I don't see anywhere to set hot things down, from the microwave or wall oven, without turning around to the island.

I want to run this past Rhome and others (because my appliance placement is not always the best LOL) but could you move the fridge over a few feet and have a small landing space, between the fridge and wall oven/microwave? Or maybe put the microwave above the counter, between the fridge and wall oven...so that things could be set directly down on the counter?

Are you thinking about using the corner banquette? If you could make the slider a little smaller, or maybe use a single french door, could you fit a hutch in between the windows and slider? I like that a hutch can be 'pretty' dish storage above, a nice buffet and all that lower storage could be for printer, computer, wireless router, etc. You could slide one of the dining chairs over to the buffet/desk, or use laptops at the table or island. Just one of many possibilities :)

I like this much better. since you want to keep the island solid (and I understand that) would you consider doing a oven mounted under the counter where you have the wall oven now and put a MW drawer in the island? That would give you landing space for both the oven and frig plus a little "snack" area by the u/c frig .

I wouldn't move the fridge to the left, because it will crowd the counter area in the corner and create a 'cave.' I don't think there needs to be a landing space in between, as it would have to be small and would tend to collect stuff.

I would, however, consider swapping the oven stack and the fridge, and use a single door fridge, so the fridge door won't hit the oven handles...that way there is counter space beside the oven and micro, and the island can serve as landing space for the fridge and/or ovens. The space toward the corner becomes great area for a baking center.

I can pretty much guarantee that you won't end up moving your chopping from the sink, as located, to the island, as it would be drippy and leave mess in 2 areas. If you won't use the island for prep, how do you see utilizing it? What is it staying clear for? I'm not trying to be smart-mouthed or sarcastic, just sincerely asking, since it will help everyone understand your vision and related needs.

I have to say that my 4 ft wide by 5 ft long island is SO useful to me as prep, serving/staging area, and large-project baking space, because of, not only spread-out space, but also having the water source right there. Having the sink on the corner allows the island to keep as much clear space as possible. Just my experience.

Lavender, we haven't decided about a banquette but I like the idea of hiding the computer stuff in a hutch, I'll think on that. It would need to go somewhere else though, we want as much window facing the beach as we can have.

remodelfla, I have thought about a microwave drawer, we will do some research and see if our fears of not being able to see inside are unfounded. I don't really like where the MW is now. I'm not sure I want to move the oven undercounter though, those turkeys seem to be getting heavier as I get older. I'll think about both though. Thanks.

rhome, Good idea, swapping fridge and ovens would give me landing space but it moves the fridge even further away from the action, I wonder if that's too far away?
I'm not sure what I am keeping the island clear for, good question! I just thought it would be good to have the sink as far from the big one as possible. I am going to really ponder this some more.

Wow, you guys are all amazing. I hope that I will be able to help someone else down the road with a more experienced eye.

Thanks!

Laurie

I'm crazy for keeping the fridge close to the cook, but with a sink on that side (as your plan shows or on the island as I suggest), I don't think that would put the fridge too far away. -Especially if it hinges on the left instead of being a French door. It would also allow others to access it without being in the way if you're using the micro or oven.

I have to say I'm biased for the corner island sink because of having one and loving how it works. Not only does it let me use the island for so much, but I can access it easily from the island's end or side. You've probably seen my kitchen, but just in case you haven't, I'll link it below, so you can see how a 4 ft wide island counter looks with the sink using the corner.

Here is a link that might be useful: my kitchen photos and info

rhome,
Your kitchen is beautiful and so well thought out. Thanks for sharing it. We are warming up to the idea of the sink in the island. We spent a lot of time on your blog, my husband finally can see how we could use different countertops in different areas. We are also in PNW, I might ask if you know a good designer to help me with cabinets when I finalize the layout.

Thanks for your time, I don't know where you find the time to help out so much here with all that you have going on in your house. Love your bucket list too!

Laurie

I really like the spaciousness of your kitchen and the social aspect of hanging out on the island and out of the cooks way. I think you should ditch the sink as it only seems to be causing problems. Then you could move the Ref. and Wall Oven back to the corner a bit. Have you thought about just having the wall oven along with cabinets there, and maybe moving the micro over to the right, above the counter? I really think that instead of hanging out in the corners as you imagine, your favorite spot is going to be at the end of the island... Which is right in between the Fridge and the Sink. I think the view and the wide open island are going to be perfect for spreading out baking trays, and having cutting boards, and rolling out things. And also socializing with whoever is sitting at the island... If anything, I think a little bar sink at the end by the U/C Fridge makes the most sense for a second sink. My 2 cents.

This is Kristen, not Ben...just thought I'd add my 2 cents as well since we are both sitting here looking at it. I totally agree that the second sink seems to be where a lot of your layout problems started. I really don't like the thought of lengthening your whole kitchen for it to fit where it is...especially because of the fireplace that will be between the living/kitchen, you will be really blocked in. My vote is either get rid of it, or put it in the corner of the island by the ref. We also both think you need more seating at the island, because three people will be hard pressed to sit comfortably with the small space provided.I also like Ben's idea of placing the micro next to the fridge above the counter. Did you look at Rohme's kitchen? it's got a concept similar to yours, but the fridge is even farther away than where you have it. I think you are a little to worried about it being too far from other things. We think it's perfect!

Thanks Ben and Kristen,
(Ben is our son who is going to do the work, Kristen is his lovely wife, and you should see Henry, 14mos., he's perfect!)
I think we have decided to do what Ben described, shorten up the wall with the fridge and move the sink to the corner of the island. I came to this forum for advice from pros and I am going to take it, everyone seems to agree that I will use a prep sink and that it should be on the island. When RHome asked why I was keeping the island clear I had no real good answer. Also, we want to make seating possible all around the end of the island, there will be room for 4. I am still unsure about MW, might move it to a drawer in the island; I am thinking a cabinet person will be able to give me advice on that.

Thanks! Laurie
ps, when are you coming back to the island, we need a Henry-fix!