I don't have advice but I've reposted your link here to make it easier for others to get to. {{gwi:1681456}}. Good luck with your remodeling!

Thank you!:).

Um. You're sure you're just looking for advice on your countertop?

{{gwi:1681456}}

Is that your actual floorplan and if so I have to speak to it - sorry. You have masses and masses of counter space and yet no prep space (or very little) around your sink and your fridge and stove are shoved off into a corner. On one side of your sink you have someone sitting there and on the other side the DW - where do you plan on prepping your food? Then behind the fridge you have people sitting there at the island (can you push in your chair so I can open the fridge please - thanks) so where will you put the vegies etc that you take out of the fridge?

What is the bunch of squares in the middle of the empty space? What is all the empty counter space for? You have the sink,fridge and stove shoved into a little corner and you are probably walking through a traffic pathway going back and forth to the fridge and stove. It doesn't seem to make sense.

I have to agree. It's hard to understand fully what's going on from the aerial view. Are there two elevations of countertop on that right wall?

It seems like the working part of the kitchen should be where the largest part of countertop is located...along that bottom and right wall. What is all that countertop for anyway? The sink should go on that side. Then you have your seating on the other side, where it is. You could do a rectangular island instead of the L.

You said you wanted functionality. This kitchen is far, far from functional, even down to how far the fridge is from the pantry and having to walk around the island and past the sink to get to the pantry.

Many here would love to help. I guess it would help to know your thoughts on why you placed certain things where they are and the rationale behind it first and what you want to accomplish from your kitchen. Once your kitchen works the way you want it to, the finishes can fall into place

Okay, so I will explain. The wall with the stove and fridge is where the stove and fridge are now. That is an existing wall and we can't move it. In order to save money we are not moving the fridge or stove. So we have to work with what we have there. The sink is where it is because that's kinda where it is now. Just past the sink(in the plans) is the current existing wall so everything beyond that is the addition. We put the island and the sink where it is in order to not have to move plumbing. We currently have very little counter space. (think the two pieces of counter on each side of stove and a small piece next to our current sink). The amount of counter space we are adding is a huge improvement over what we have. The barstools on the island are not set in stone. The squares next to the island is a table where we will have a wrap around bench seat. The spot along the wall of counter space that sorta drops down will be a desk. I don't have a problem walking the 10 feet from the pantry to the fridge or stove or wherever. I do see what you all are saying, but believe me this is a huge improvement over what we currently have. I'm not sure what else we could do to change things. Does that make sense? Thanks!

OK. Tough love time.

That layout is terrible. Absolutely terrible.

You are not adding counterspace. You are adding useless counterspace where you don't need it and won't work on it--and at huge cost.

You can afford to expand the footprint of your house but can't afford to move a gas line?

Has any professional been advising you in this project? A KD or architect? Can you fire them?

I'm with marcolo. I wouldn't spend a dime on this. I'm usually all about working with the constraints that a poster presents but in this case I can't. You are not improving the function of your kitchen. Unless you are adding counter space within your work triangle, which you are not, all you are adding is a giant drop zone for junk.

You will not be happy. You're spending a lot of money on cabinets and counters and nothing on function. IF the kitchen HAS to be done now, put in laminate counter tops instead of granite or quartz, upgrade them later, and use the saved money to move the plumbing and electrical/gas lines. Otherwise wait and save the money until you can do it properly. Seriously, this is a mess.

While I am trying very hard to not be upset. I gotta say I am a bit crushed. I have been so excited to have the additional counter space and square footage. Our kitchen totally sucks right now and I have functioned fine in it for 7 years. We have practically zero prep space currently so anything additional will be a huge bonus. What do you suggest we do with the wall of counterspace? Get rid of it? I am not dismissing what you all are saying, but I am not sure if there is much else we can do. I guess getting countertop help is a not gonna happen.:(

Please let the talented people here help you develop a wonderful layout. I've heard the average cost to move a gas line is only $250. If you are talking about quartz or grante, $250 is nothing. The layout is really the most important. It doesn't have to cost alot to function well.

Thanks anyway guys, I think we are stuck with this layout. Our contractors have already submitted the plans.

Please understand that no one here is trying to be mean or crush your dreams. The goal of people here is to help others get the most bang for their buck and to end up with a kitchen that they love and that will really work for them in the end. Moving a gas line will not be an issue. You can keep the sink in your island if you want. But you won't be prepping on that expanse of counter over there. It's too far to prep on. And you can't use that space to the left of the sink if people are eating there.

There are some seriously talented people here who can seriously help you tweak this and get it the way you want it. In the end, you could actually SAVE money by putting more thought into the functionality of the design. Granite and quartz (and in the quantities you're talking) are expensive...thousands of dollars. By changing your layout and moving things around, a few hundred won't matter and you will more than likely save that in countertop money and other places.

We don't want to upset you or crush you. That is not the intent of the people here. What we want to happen is that you get the best functioning kitchen possible and this isn't it. You are adding a lot of space so make it work for you.

It's great that you can add the space but not at the expense of poor function. All that counter space that you are adding is not within your work triangle which means that it is not going to be useful. You want to add more prep space but you're not doing that because it isn't where you will be prepping which is between the area of stove/sink/fridge. And you haven't been functioning fine in the kitchen for 7 years - you've been making do - which is what you will be doing in this space.

It sounds like you will be basically gutting and if so it's a small part of the budget (compared to new counters and cabinets) to move plumbing and electrical. Are you dealing with a KD or GC, or is this a DIY. Have you drawn up a budget and have you received estimates? What actual planning and research have you done? PLEASE - do not rush this process, do your research, look at the floorplans in magazines, go to open houses, go to model homes and look at them and analyze them.

Where the stove is now make that your desk area. Don't do a right angle island just do a straight one parallel to the right wall and make it centered. Put the sink and DW in the island on the right hand side and put the stove where the middle window is and you might be able to leave the fridge where it is. Without knowing measurements we can't say how wide the island can be or if there is room for seating on the left hand side. This is just a start and may or may not work and will require a lot of tweaking.

Do you have any other eating areas in the house or will that table be it.

If you are interested in more help post your measurements of your space and what you are looking for in a properly functioning kitchen. You will get a lot of friendly useful help here. I'm not this mean (believe me I'm not) but I just don;t want you spend a fortune on a kitchen that won;t give you what you need.

When I renovated our kitchen it was for the express purpose of getting more prep space. I worked in a kitchen that had a counter of 3'x2' for prep space for 20 years. I had a counter that measured 4' long that was OUTSIDE of my work triangle and was therefore useless. I know exactly what you are talking about. Please don;t repeat the mistake. I'm sorry if I upset you and it wasn't my intention. I just feel strongly about it.

You are not "stuck" with anything. It's your money, your renos so people work for you. Plans can be adjusted. Put a hold on everything, redo the layout and then resubmit plans. Please.

Countrygrl- If it's too late to make any changes (adding a sink, moving fridge, anything) then let's do what we can with the existing plan. That being said...please check with your contractor and make sure. Even a prep sink would make a big difference!

So, I'd put marble under the big windows and make that a baking area. If you can, I'd add another undercounter oven to this area...maybe over by the slider. Is that a desk area, on the other end?

Maybe soapstone/black granite/black formica on the desk, range/fridge wall and pantry area. That would make a nice contrast with the wood cabinets and the marble.

If you're okay with wood and water (it can be done, with Waterlox or careful maintenance) then I'd make the island wood. It's softer and warmer, for leaning against and would really warm up the middle of the space. Possibly paint the island (black?) to contrast a little more with the wood cabinets elsewhere.

Whoops! Just went back and read your OP...great minds think alike! LOL Anyway, I like your ideas, but I'd still think about some marble, to set off the baking area, although granite would be nice, too. It just depends on how much 'color and pattern' you want in your space. I do think the marble would say 'baking area' and make some sense of that extra cabinetry space...but ultimately, it's up to you. Just my two cents :)

If you've ordered everything and are still proceeding: reverse the desk so the drawer part is at the end and your kitchen counter extends to where the drawers are pictured[desk area should be reduced in length] Make the island more squarish by putting the base cabinets in a different configuration-put the sink on the opposite side where you have it pictured: now you can walk from frig to either the island to actually use it or the long counter run against the wall. Don't order the stools yet-the island may come into use as prep/work for cooking. The number of stools and type may change. By redoing the island, as the minimum you can easily do, things could improve. Couldn't you put the frig where the desk is-repurpose the desk elsewhere in the home?

Thanks everyone. I will be talking things over with hubby tonight and hopefully we can make some changes. lavender_ lass thanks for the ideas! Funny how we are on the same page. If we can't change anything I do like the baking area idea. Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the input even if it's not want I want to hear. I was just taken aback is all.

If nothing else, see if you can add a little prep sink, in the corner of the baking area. This would keep you from walking around the island to get water...and give you another prep area. Think big wooden cutting board on the marble and chopping up salads...maybe with some veggies, fresh out of the garden :)

Countrygal38,

New kitchens can be overwhelming!
It is okay to put the brakes on the plans. A day or two
to think it all over and get what works and what YOU
really want. GW members are full of great ideas,
clever ways to work your plan and support.

Now, to talk about countertops, you can do a mix of
granite and wood if you love that look. I have some
visuals that might help you think about your own space.
These images below are not of a rustic relaxed kitchen
but at least you get the idea of how to incorporate the
stone and wood together.

~boxer

Thank you boxerpups! I love the look of stone and butcher block.

Here is a new idea we came up with. On the left side of the kitchen (where the big open space is) is where our laundry room used to be. We are not going to extend this part of the house(we can't do because of the drain field) out. What we can do is extend more counter top and cupboards around into that little room and put a prep sink in there as well. There is a nice window in there so it's not like it is a hole in the wall or anything. It's just a weird sized room, not quite big enough to be a dining room. So there would be work space that is more centralized and a prep sink. THEN we move the bench seats and table from the island and put that where the wall of counters is. We make the island a bit bigger then as well. Does that sound any better? Does it make sense? Thanks!

When we were doing our kitchen in 2007/2008, we had also finalized our plans with our KD. But, I found this site and after reading, reading, and reading, I realized we did not have that great a plan. So, I called my KD and told her I was concerned about the design and I wanted to stop all work on the kitchen process until I had a design I was happy with...and then I posted here asking for help. It still took a couple of months, but in the end I have such a wonderful kitchen! It's been almost 4 years and I still occasionally do a "happy dance" in my kitchen and still get a thrill when I walk into my kitchen! That is what we all want for you!!!

Yes, I had a frustrated and somewhat impatient KD & Project Manager, but this was/is my kitchen and I was paying them to do what I wanted, not what was fastest & easiest for them!

You (and your family) will have to live with this kitchen for years to come. The contractor and others will finish up, be gone, and never see it again nor, more importantly, will they have to work in it on a day-to-day basis.

Please, do you and your family a favor and stop! I really feel that redesigning the kitchen to be functional is more important than adding countertop where it's not very useful...I'm being honest with you! Your Prep Zone is crammed into a tiny space to the right of the sink AND has a DW in the middle of it. Your Cooking Zone has very little workspace and barely enough emergency landing space - landing space that is shared with the refrigerator.

In addition, the person sitting on the end of the island with the sink will be subject to dirty dishes in his/her face as well as splashing.

Trying to turn that large expanse of counterspace into a Baking Center is going to be an issue because your only oven is on the far side of a large, unwieldy island. That island is not only a barrier island b/w the entire left and right sides of the kitchen, but its shape makes it even worse b/c it spreads the barrier out both top-to-bottom and right-to-left.

I'm sorry, but I feel very strongly about this. Granted, I will not have to work in this kitchen....but I want you to still be doing a "happy dance" 4 or 5 years from now b/c you have a very functional and gorgeous kitchen! So, my personal suggestion if money is tight to do one of two things:

(1) Wait. Keep saving money until you have enough to do it right (we saved for over 10 years....and it was so worth it to have a great kitchen & not go into debt doing it)

(2) Rather spend a lot of money adding counters that are not very useful, start from scratch with your current layout and see what can be done to make it more functional before adding miles of counters. In reality, a smaller amount of counterspace in the right places is far preferable to no counterspace where it is needed and tons of it where it is not needed.

Don't be crushed! You are getting some great advice here...

But, in the end it is up to you...as I said before, it is your kitchen and if all that counterspace, regardless of its location, is more important to you than less counterspace but plenty in the right places, then go forward with it. Everyone is different and we all have different priorities - there's no one way to go. You need to decide what is right for you and your family.

Good luck whatever your decision is!

Hickory cabs. I love hickory! I'd go with a stone with very little movement with hickory. Something like a subtle granite, or soapstone, or quartz.

As for layout, I am afraid I am in the "tough love" category. Before I saw anyone else's comments, I looked at your layout and said words you would not want to have heard. The GW bunch could do wonders with your space; I hope you decide to let them!
(((hugs)))

Hang in there countrygrl....when I posted my first layout here I got pretty much the same overwhelming "we hate this" response and I was pretty crushed too. But in the end some of what was said I was able to incorporate. Like you I didn't want to do any strucural changes and thought my budget couldn't accomodate. But I have been able to squeeze them in. Instead of versailles travertine pattern, doing plain. Instead of deco end panels on my island, just plain. But in return I got to move my cooktop off my island, move my fridge 10 feet closer to my pantry, and move my ovens to a more logical place. If only I had been able to save enough to get the plumbing to the prep sink I would be dancing in the streets.

But while I will have less in one area I will have more in others so I'm happy. All that being said, if you love your layout then no one here can persuade you otherwise so just make it as pretty to you as can. Beagles has an absolutely drop dead gorgeous kitchen that all, even Beagles, acknowledge isn't very practical but is one of the prettiest kitchens I have ever seen.

Ultimate goal is to walk in and have a huge smile on your face after all the hard work and money that go into these remodels. Good luck!

countrygrl38 - I know it can be frustrating to have one idea in mind and then have to scrap it or wait for what you really want.

After finding GW (and a small dose of tough love from Marcolo as well - I feel your pain ;) I think my layout is so much better. I refined my taste and my expectations and had to put the whole thing on hold for what seemed like an eternity - but was really barely enough time for me to do the legwork and research that I really NEEDED to do.

While that decision was so upsetting at first, I'm so glad I waited. I'm still tweaking my choices and we will start mid-April - knock on wood!

My contractor and flooring person are probably already frustrated with me because I am informed and I research every decision and they know I'm going to be on them every step of the way. But the bottom line is, while working with a contractor can be daunting, he works for you and needs to work with you as well. If he's not willing to, maybe you don't have the right person on the payroll.

I just had to write an email to my flooring person and tell her that, since I am considering writing them a substantial check, she should expect that I am going to do my research and I'm not going to apologize for making her answer my questions or the fact that I contacted the manufacturer directly to verify what I was told since there was conflicting information.

If you take a step back, give these amazing GWers your measurements and vision, you will be completely amazed at what they can help you create!

I hope you continue to post here. As others have said, the talent and time that posters here have shared freely with others is absolutely priceless.

I know how important it is to have a kitchen that you love to look at, but in our current remodel, we sacrificed our preferred countertop choices (stainless or marble) to make sure that other more important/functional things were accomplished. Countertops are so easy to swap out later on.

Please don't settle for "better than you have"! A remodel is too much of a pain in the you-know-what (and too much of an expense!) to settle. Best wishes! :)

Gardengirl,

This is wonderful news. To expand!!! I agree 100% create
more work space that is centralized. A wall of counters
making the island bigger. Yes, of course that makes
perfect sense. And to think the room you will have to
cook, entertain and enjoy your meals.

Definitely put your measurements up for help. You will be
amazed at the knowledge, guidance, encouragement and
support GW can provide.

Looking forward to seeing your dream become reality.
~boxer

I've read down through and didn't see anyone mentioning posting a floorplan of the whole first floor so everyone can see the relation of the kitchen to the rest of the house. I'm not gonna be the big guns idea person here, (struggling with layout/finishes as you are) but even I'm having a hard time figuring out what leads to where and what the measurements are. You have landed in the best possible place for help, though. I, too was recently the recipient of some tough love opinions that were decidedly spot on. Anyone can blow smoke up your hinder 'cause that's easy, but the honest, thoughtful advice of the folks on here that take the TIME for complete strangers... that's rare. Don't worry, you'll only be half crazed by this process (with the GW'ers help) instead of flat out nuts.

Thanks everyone. We are for sure going to be making some changes. I am excited about it! We needed to hear the tough love.:)

Did your husband hear and understand the reasoning why as well? I know it can be hard to put the brakes on when you want to forge ahead. But in this case, it will be the best thing for you. You will be living in this house for a long long time. You and your family NEED to be happy here long term. Nothing is set in stone at this point, even though they've gone to get permits or whatever. It's YOUR house and you are in control. That's one of the major things I've learned after a renovation and now a build. It's ME who has to be happy, not my contractor or architect. I'm paying THEM. They work for me, not the other way around. I hope you come back here and post more of your layout, wants and needs. I know people would be more than willing to help.

Countrygrl- Sounds good! Let us know the dimensions of your space and what you want/need in your new kitchen. Are any of the windows or slider 'fixed' or can they be changed?

As Deedles said, it would be helpful to see the first floor, to know how the rooms interact with one another...if you can do that. If not, dimensions are a good start :)

Yay, countrygrl38! So glad to hear that you're excited! :)

Countrygirl,
Sounds great! I am glad you are interested in making some changes. In the "New to Kitchen Forum?" thread, which is generally found on the first or second page, there is a link to directions explaining what information would be useful to us to help come to a better layout. I have linked that thread below.

And here is the link to the "New to Kitchens?" thread:
New to Kitchens?

Here is a link that might be useful: Directions for asking for layout help

Thanks again for all the encouragement. Yes, babs711 my husband does agree that changes need to be made, but we also will have to work around some things as well. We have been talking and I was wondering what you all thought about the changes I talked about making in my previous post. Moving our bench and table from the island and instead putting it where the wall of counterspace is. Making the island a tad wider behind the sink. And then moving counterspace and cupboards into the area on the left of the plans. Which used to be our laundry 'room' ( more like laundry closet) and is not actually on the plans. It is roughly a 5 1/2 wide by 7 1/2 long area. We would put a prep sink in there as well. I want to see if we could possibly move the oven somewhere else too. Would this make better sense? I know it's hard to picture, but I am not sure how to do plans on my iPad and post them on here. The layout I posted was done up by the woman working on our cabinets.

I'm pretty horrible at getting people's ideas when they list them out (move this to that wall move this here, etc). Others on here are rather good at it, but I know a lot are like me :) With that in mind, I'd go to Staples and buy graph paper. Draw out the perimeter walls and sketch out your thoughts. Scan them in and post back. When you see it drawn out like that it will better help you and others see your possibilities. Make sure you label the wall lengths too so we know what you're working with and you'll find you'll get the most help. Hope that helps!

It's really hard to do this without a floorplan but I'll give it a shot.

What I see is a space in the lower left hand corner which I thought was going to be a pantry or are you talking about around the corner to the left - either way is that where you are thinking of putting more counter and a prep sink? If so, instead of putting the prep sink there - put the clean-up sink and DW in that counter area. Then on your island put a smaller prep sink and pull-out trash and get rid of the stool-seating and DW. Reconfigure the island so that you can make decent use of it for cabinets. Then your prep area is across from your fridge/stove and your clean-up area has been removed to its own area. By putting a sink in that new spot it would also give easy access to a sink from the outside (I'm assuming that the sliders go to a deck) without getting in the way of the cook.

I have a big question - the aisle between the island and the stove/fridge wall - does it lead to and from anywhere on a regular basis. Would people be needing to walk THROUGH that area? If it is an important traffic path then it could be a bit of an issue when the cook is moving food stuffs back and forth between the island and fridge/stove.

This is beginning to ramble - but what about putting the pantry into the old laundry room space and then taking out the pantry in the kitchen proper where you have it drawn now and continuing counter and putting clean-up sink and DW there. It would help to open the space up. Just a thought.

Could you at least give us length and width of the space - that would be a start. Thanks.

Thanks blfenton. I know it's a pain doing this when you don't have much to go on. The laundry area is not on these current plans. It is on the left hand side where the white space to nothing is. We are pushing our kitchen out about 10 feet, but the laundry area is staying it's current width. We can't push it because our sewer drain field is in the way.

Anyway, I was actually thinking today that the big sink might be better in the old laundry area. There is a window in there, but depending on where we could put the sink the window might not be over it. Hopefully that would be okay. My only concern is that whoever is using the sink might feel sort of isolated. But I'm sure that wouldn't be the case. I have a hard time picturing how things will look. I do like the idea of a prep sink on the island and changing the islands shape. I think we could still put a couple stools on the end for seating.

Now to your big question. No, that isn't a big traffic area. It will just be kitchen traffic. Our living room is off the other door way between the fridge and desk. Thanks so much for your help and giving things a go. I will figure out dimensions and post those when I get a chance. Thanks again!

Even if you can't post get a bunch of graph paper and then draw up plans and see how they work. Check clearances for working, when measuring clearances take into consideration distances from counter to counter (not cabinet to cabinet), take into consideration appliance handles, take into account your butt when bending over (eg when using the DW or the oven).

If you put the DW where the big sink is then that becomes the clean-up area and there may be more than one person in there at a time.

When drawing up your plans draw one up with the clean-up area in the old laundry room with the big sink, DW and food wraps. Then draw up another with the old laundry room being your pantry and the clean-up area where the pantry is currently located. Envision yourself with both scenarios and working in them.

Another thought is in the lower right corner is to put a banquette and table in there for eating. But because I don;t have dimensions I don't know if there is enough room between the slider door and the corner. It's really hard to tell.

I probably drew up 50 plans before settling on the one that we did. I would redraw it if I moved a door or changed the width of a cabinets or moved the fridge. It was how I could tell traffic paths and my own work path. I would pretend I was working in the new plan and see if it would work. This is a process that cannot be rushed and it is, without a doubt, a long one. I spent 18 months doing up plans and researching. Most people spend that and many spend more time than that. Don't let anyone rush you through this - not your GC or KD or DH. Please.

Looking forward to more information and I really hope that you know the people here just want to help you get the best kitchen possible. Sorry if you felt otherwise.

You can use graph paper printed from the internet (google "graph paper"). If you can't scan, then take a picture of your graph paper. Just make sure to make dark markings so they can be seen when reproduced. I made a mockup of our walls and then made lots of copies of that so that when I played around with the different layouts, it was not a lot of erasing.
Later, I used the Ikea online planner and loved being able to tweak things and see how it would look like in 3d and from different angles. You do not have to buy Ikea in order to use it....

Hey Countrygirl,
just posting to see how your plans are going and offer some encouragement.

If you can scan in a hand-drawn layout of your two current rooms (laundry and kitchen) and post it to photobucket, that would help the experts here even more...