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bmh4796

Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Bridget Helm
November 7, 2006

Hello. I currently have Behr and SW paint in our home. I LOVE the colors Behr offers as well as the website where you can view the colors in different rooms. But, I must admit that it does not go on as nicely as SW. SW, though, does not have great colors. Ben Moore has beautiful colors, but sometimes I go in there and I'm overwhelmed by all of them.

Anyhow, we are building a home now and I need to decide on a paint store. Is BM worth it? Oh, and how about Devoe paint? Has anyone used this?

Thanks,

bridget

Comments (115)

  • jay_20124_yahoo_co

    Sherwin Williams has worked well for me in the past. I thought that any popular brand paint would do, so I tried Behr: It takes 3 coats every time to cover and its inconsistant! I am painting a bathroom Burgandy that was Peach. I put on a primer coat. Still, I am having to put on a 3rd coat to cover. It looks like I will be putting on a 4th. That's 5 coats total. Booo on Behr!

  • lman924_yahoo_com

    I used bm aura and then I used behr premium plus ultra . I like the behr better. Both are self priming. I painted the behr over pink walls in a bedroom and I could've stopped after one coat that's how good it covered, plus its 34 dollars a gallon cheaper than aura. The aura I painted over peach walls and it def needed 2 coats. Very immpressed with behr premium plus ultra.

  • paintguy22

    I know everyone says that good paint will cover better, but usually when a paint covers poorly, it's because of the color itself. A burgundy will generally not cover well unless you are using Aura because there just may not be any colorants in that particular color that will have any hiding power. Even a burgundy color made in Fine Paints of Europe may take 3 coats. Aura is the only exception that I know of.

  • steph2000

    I can't speak on Behr, but I am in the process of doing a sampling of SW versus BM trim paints. I have to say, the BM Regal semi-gloss is blowing all competition out of the water. It is an amazing finish, even with a brush on my sample boards. So rich and with a lot of depth, even with just one coat. And smooth as butter. For my trim and mantles, I am thinking it is well worth the money. It's also comparable to the pro-classic products in price.

  • rhreinhard

    We are in the process of painting our new house. I read the reviews regarding Aura and Duration paint. We have a level 5 finish on the walls and want a matte finish for the paint. SW is having a sale this week, so I figured I'd buy a quart of each and try the Duration and Aura side by side.

    I'm far from a professional painter, but here is my review. The Aura was easier to apply. The Duration wasn't bad, it just didn't seem to cover quite as well. The Aura is a lot more matte than the Duration. I was really hoping to save some $$ by going with Duration, but I think we will stick with the Aura.

  • crgaustin2pv_austin_rr_com

    I have not read one posting on ingredients. Percentage of Titanium Dioxide, Zinc, and with water based paint, Acrylic%s. These key materials play a role and can vary from brand and quality. Titanium keeps going up in price and may be the most important item to read on the label.

    There are of course proprietary factors in how these basics play together; check the label, first.

    I have had good luck with Behr and their water base enamels flatten out pretty good. In the 70's I was dedicated to use Sherwin Williams oil enamels, but their water base enamels did not measure up back then. Gloss Latex on wood can be a real no no, too. Had to strip moldings that had used cheap latex glosses. --Sometimes peal off like food wrap and roll into eraser balls when sanded.

    Sherwin Williams Oil based paint has me sold, along with a good brush, too. SW transitioned well after the lead was taken out of paint.

    Often thick paint (one sign of good quality) often benefits from adding PENETROL brand products for flow and thinning. No one has talked about this great old brand and experimenting with it often makes for best results. Curious?

    There are lots of techniques one should consider before making too general an assumption statement. I'm about to paint some cabinets that are primed with water base flat and shall cover with oil base enamel. Oil spreads a lot further than Acrylics, something else to think about in making comparisons.

    Good luck to all...these comments come from my 30+ years of relative knowledge, now find someone behind those counters that can add to them. --Knowledgeable paint mixers can be hard to find while making the difference in avoiding big mistakes.

  • PRO
    Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

    Often thick paint (one sign of good quality)

    Really????

  • bigmarkdale_yahoo_com

    I am a paint contractor. I paint every day of my life. We do high end custom homes all the way down to apartment move outs. Just from what my experiance tells me is. You normally cannot go wrong with benjamin moore paints. Sherwin offers a great product as well just dont have one in my rural location. And valspar also offers a good product. I really like valspar medallion line of paint 100% acrylic and has become my goto paint on exterior jobs. Just my two cents worth.

  • gardenandcats

    I used berh this past spring. We wanted a nice rich red red! Living room ,hall and Kitchen..It took one primer coat and 3 coats of red. I thought it would never cure! Its been 4 months ..last week I was mixing cake batter and abit went on the wall. So I took a slightly wet paper towel no soap to wipe it off. The paper towel turned pink!! Whats going to happen when I really need to give the walls a spring cleaning? I wish I'd never ever heard of Berh paint!!! It is still tacky.Bump it and off its coming..This will all have to soon be redone I can clearly see it happening..And It will not be with berh!!!!

  • taureg

    As someone who arrived here via Google, let me point out a recent article in the NY Times about how often people are paid to write reviews - and this is on ALL sites - TripAdvisor, Amazon, Yelp. The article was about how someone developed a computer algorithm to identify the posts that are shills. Very bad ratings can also be shills.

    These days, I read reviews that are 3 out of 5 stars because I think they ate the least likely to be faked.

    That being said, I don't believe that colors can be accurately matched across brands because the color of the bases vary. I just did a large amount of testing because I wanted to duplicate a standard BM paint in Aura and couldn't I am extremely sensitive to color and can see differences that maybe other people can't.

    And as for the staff in specialized paint stores being more knowledgable, I would not count on it. The amount of MIS-information I received about color matching and the fact that the bases are a major concern was news to too many staff at 4 different paint stores in NYC.

    BTW, I am not a paid shill - just someone who is kicking herself for forgetting about the importance of bases when I ordered the paint for the jredo of my apartment that was just completed. I'll just have to live with it.

  • PRO
    Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

    That being said, I don't believe that colors can be accurately matched across brands because the color of the bases vary. I just did a large amount of testing because I wanted to duplicate a standard BM paint in Aura and couldn't I am extremely sensitive to color and can see differences that maybe other people can't.

    Aura has a completely different tinting system than anything else.

  • Faron79

    I hate to "continue" a somewhat recent thread, BUT there's SO many misconceptions about "bases" & "tinting-systems"...

    First off-
    * I've had my hands in paint for nearly 10yrs, at an upscale Hardware/Furnishings, etc. store.
    * We have ACE-Royal, Ralph-Lauren, & C2 paints.
    * I've therefore been matching colors/tinting for a long time now, and have developed a good "base" of paint knowledge.

    Chrisn is right concerning BM's Aura. It's colorants are VERY different than the normal Glycol-colorants that 98% of paint-lines use. Aura uses Acrylic colorants that are very opaque...you could actually PAINT with the colorants! Is the system cheap?!?!? Lord no!! The specialized tinters for Aura alone may approach $20K for some models. These colorants require a tinter with humidifier caps/lines so they don't dry out.

    Taureg is a little too concerned about the "bases" issue.
    * Yes, every paint-series/brand has its own tint-bases.
    * Some are "whiter" than others, and transparency enters into this too.
    * TECHNICALLY....there is no such thing as a perfect match between two different brands. It's just not possible, no matter HOW GOOD the scanner is!!
    * I can get DAMN-NEAR perfect sometimes though!!! Mainly thru the scanner, and some intuition developed over the years!

    Our C2 paint has SIXTEEN colorants to choose from! It's easy to match INTO C2 because of that.
    However....we DON'T match C2 colors into lines/brands that have fewer colorants. It's just NOT possible with some of the more "complex" colors.

    I know EXACTLY what the issues are with Gardenandcats red!!
    (as does Chrisn I'm sure...)

    Faron

  • PRO
    Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

    I know EXACTLY what the issues are with Gardenandcats red!!
    (as does Chrisn I'm sure...)

    Oh ya!

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Can you guys believe this thread was started November 7, 2006. Five years ago.

    It's still a relevant topic - this amazes, yet never bores me.

    Faron and Chrisn -- you can't leave us all hanging. Please -- do tell what are the issues with gardencats' red?

    And I agree with Faron - color matching can't just be about what the computer spits out for a formula. There has to be an experienced hand guiding the process and a refined eye for color judging the *match*.

  • Faron79

    Oh Fun-C!!

    YOU know what's goin' on too!!

    You're more eloquent than I besides...;-)

    Faron

  • rafor

    Drove by the local Home Depot today and they had a big sign outside that said they would beat any Sherwin Williams quote by 20%. Thought that was interesting.

  • ionized_gw

    That is easy if THEY get to decide what is comparable paint.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    I'd like to suggest that Home Depot is not the same as Behr. They sell Behr but they also sell other brands. i.e. Glidden and most recently Yolo Colorhouse.

    So, ionized makes a great point - make sure they are comparing apples to apples. Beat a SW quote for Super Paint by 20% at the Home Depot with Yolo or a can of Glidden Professional - feasible. Beat a quote for a top tier SW grade of paint like Duration Matte. . . not so sure about that one.

    As far as the red. 1) You need a high quality base as the vehicle to hold an abundance of colorant - like what is needed for some colors of red. 2) Even with a high quality base, some reds are very shear due to organic vs. inorganic *kind* of colorant required to achieve that particular red. 3) If it's a shear, organic red and a low quality tint base, there's nothing good about that situation. A quality tint base is defined by ratios of binders, fillers and titanium dioxide.

    A general rule of thumb is you get what you pay for in a can of paint. There are a few sleeper brands out there that just kills it when it comes to value as defined by spread rate (like 400 sq ft per gallon) a.k.a. coverage priced per square foot - not per gallon. Like Diamond Vogel's Permacryl Eggshell and Ace's newest product line, Clark & Kensignton Eggshell.

  • andersons21

    Titanium dioxide is too white and opaque to produce a rich red (or dark) paint. All the brands I have looked at use little to no titanium dioxide in one of their bases, the base used for darks and reds. You can't mix titanium dioxide with any red pigment and get anything other than some shade of pink.

  • Lucille

    I'd like to mention that 'can't get' is a sissy reason not to have good paint. What with the expense and prep and all the stuff you got to do to get a house, inside or out, painted, you might as well use a quality paint so you don't have to do it so often
    There are online stores that will send you paint via UPS ground. There are paint stores in the next town if you don't have one in yours. There are husbands and/or teenagers that can be sent out to get paint in return for appropriate incentives.
    Don't settle for something you don't really want just because the paint store is not within walking distance.

  • sierraeast

    Try justifying that "philosophy" to clients who in no way would pay ups, fedex or any other delivery charges. They cetainly are not going to pay a "teenager" to grunt their materials with gas out here @ over 4 bucks a gallon on top of a days wages with the nearest paint outlet 80 miles away. It's area specific.

  • sierraeast

    Also meant to say that your attitude is dead on. Quality paint coupled with proper prep applications and all applied by a reputable, experienced finisher(s) = quality paint projects that will save money in the long run. Not all clients can be convinced of that.

  • onlygirlsmom

    I wanted to mention that SW is having their paint sale this weekend (20-23) -at least in our area - my friend received it in an email and passed it along to me. 40% off their paint. I don't know how often their paint goes on sale, but considering we're about ready to repaint our inside -it might be a good time for me to try SW

  • Jumpilotmdm

    It's so much fun to read all these comments. People saying "cover" when they mean "hide". Sprayers were invented so you don't have to pick up a brush? Behr is good paint, yes but is HD good too? People [painters?] who won't use anything but a certain brand. Paint that won't lie properly, as if paint could really tell the truth? Blaming the paint when the tape pulls it off?
    Very entertaining!

  • poppasmurf302

    I have been a coatings technical rep for the last 15 years, dealing with residential paint and industrial coatings(laquers, epoxy, fire retardents) for duron, sherwin williams, and ici. the coverage is consistent with the type of paint used (base specific).- the lighter colors hide better because a white base has an average of 20 oz. of titanium dioxide plus colored pigment, and a neutral base only has enough room for an average of 8 oz. of colorant and clear solids...so the darker(neutral base) colors contain less pigment, causing more coats for the same hide. some paint manufacturers carry red, green, blue, and yellow bases that contain around 20 oz. of the base color, and can produce bright/dark colors that hide great.

    my only other comment is that a perfect color match is possible, but not by a color scanner - if the person matching your color, scans your chip, and does not adjust the formula....watch out, probably wont be too good. I have trained many people in my career, and used all of the electronic eye scanners available to date - every device says to scan the color, add 75% of the given formula, then adjust to perfect. the best color matching operations that I know of(I have been in most of the industrial coatings shops on the east coast) dont use the electronic eye at all, and match by real eyes

  • Faron79

    Original post here was over 8 YEARS AGO.
    I'm damn good at matching colors; scanning, backing-off some, then

    tweaking. I've used a half-dozen different scanners in my years. I've NEVER seen that info on any scanner I've used. But no...technically, PERFECT is impossible.


    Faron

  • kateanderson630

    Am interested in buying the best wall paint...what are the procedure


  • PRO
  • Danis Guidulis

    All I can tell behr paints it's something should nobody buy ...can't do touch ups with brush or rollers when it dries finish look different and in proper light so noticeable. ..it's terrible. .I can't paint whole wall again ...big rip off.

  • poppasmurf302

    I rest my case - the man that has never seen the correct procedure in using multiple color eyes, says perfect is impossible - might fly in a small town paint store, dealing with homeowners that dont know any better. not here to argue, or comment further on this - if you are a paint customer, and need a color right on, there is a paint supplier that can make it happen, but not every store has the equipment or training - its a formula, made from colorants dispensed in specific increments....not a majic that you can create once, then never again

  • debo_2006

    I'm not a professional painter, but, I/we do all the painting in our homes ourselves. I consider myself a perfection (I'm an artist). I've tried the 3 brands you mentioned. Behr is the most economically, but, I HATE USING IT. It doesn't cover well, and I noticed when I wash my baseboards in the bathroom where I used it, it peels off in place. I also doesn't wash well.

    SW is a good paint but their colors, to me, are much to be desired.

    Years ago when Aura just came out I painted the DR with it though I didn't like the (then) $50/galloon price...now much more. It went on nice, but dries very quickly, which can be a blessing/curse. My then VERY LIGHT gray (almost white) walls took 3 coats of Aura light yellow paint to cover well.

    Recently, I painted our LR, foyer and hall with BM Regal Eggshell and LOVED IT. It went on smooth, covered well with 2 coats (the same light gray mentioned above that was in the DR was in these rooms as well). I decided this will now be my paint of choice. It was a pleasure to work with and washes nicely. My picky DH enjoyed using it also. BM has gorgeous colors.

    While I know most places can match a competitors paint color, the times I had this done, the color was off. And we all know that a tiny bit off changes a paint color tremendously when on the walls. I won't go that route again.

    BTW, you can get BM at True Hardware and Ace, and throughout the year they run sales on this paint....and not all of them charge the same price from my research (I've called up to 5 local stores and got 3 different gallon prices). Prices can vary by several bucks a gallon.

    Note: I generally paint walls with eggshell, ceilings flat, and woodwork in gloss, though may use a semi-gloss in a bathroom for better washability.



  • Marc Adrian

    Just chiming in to verify that Behr is a hard paint to work with. It dries unevenly, even though you rolled it on smoothly and timely enough for everything to gel right. This is due to its bad coverage/hiding. It's thin and doesn't cover over what your painting on top of well at all, in my experience. Use a semi-gloss in a bright red or orange color and watch the inconsistencies worsen. Go with Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore paints, instead...much less hassle.

  • andrelaplume2

    Well perhaps behr jas degraded in the last year. I painted my entire home with it 10 years ago. My only complaint is we are tiring of some of the color choices. I have had no issues cleaning and scrubbing baseboards painted white. My only complaint is I should have stained the suckers because they tend to show dust and dirt very quickly! I used eggshell on walls and either satin or semi on trim and doors. A year ago I did my basement grey and navy blue... Yankee theme...looks great...again no issues. Pop was a painter by trade for 45 years. He was more concerned with prep than paint and taught me that overall prep takes longer than the actual painting. If you are not properly cleaning walls, sanding baseboards and using the proper sheen in the proper areas..ie don't paint baseboards flat or walls with gloss... you will have trouble.... be it in cleanability or look. If you have done so and have peeling baseboards I'd go to home depot and they will no doubt issue u a credit. Pick up some good quality rollers, brushes, sandpaper and cleaning solution with the credit. Then try your BM or SW....just be sure to do the prep because it's unlikely those stores will be issuing any credit if it peels plus your cost is quite a bit more than HD unless u r just doing one room.

  • David Jensen

    During my 35 years as a painting contractor, Ben Moore was my mainstay. However, I now use Behr products exclusively in and on my own home. I would not use them if i did not think they were as good as or better than the other major brands. I have never had a bad result with the Behr paints. The new Marquee line does indeed cover anything in one coat if the directions are followed.

    I read the reviews of Behr paint and wonder about the disconnect? How can presumably the same product be giving such a wide range of results? My general conclusion is that the majority of users are unaware or all the factors that can influence a paint jobs results: was bone dry "contractor's paint being painted over in only one coat? Was glossy paint painted over without deglossing and priming first? Was a strong color being covered with a clear pastel color in only one coat? Were they getting 450 square feet per gallon coverage ( you shouldn't be) ? Were they keeping a "wet edge" as the painted?

    Every paint manufacturer encourages a dedicated primer and finish coat, or two coats of a paint and primer paint. They do this because the they know majority of problems with streakiness and bad coverage are alleviated when two coats are done. It is NEVER wrong to prime, although it is sometimes overkill.

    There are many explanations of why paints don't cover well. Suffice it to say: bright ,clear colors don't cover as well as dull colors. Significant color changes from light to dark, or dark to light , ask a lot of any paint in one coat. Paints with lots of quality titanium dioxide white pigment cover better than lesser paints, which use cheap chalk, clay and silica as filler pigment..

    People buy a $2.97 "painting kit" at Walmart and wonder why they get a $2.97 looking paint job. As with anything, quality tools and materials give quality results when proper preparation, diligence and reasonable skill is applied.

    The point is, it is not always that damned Behr, Sherwin-Williams or BenMoore paint that is causing the problem. Often it is the ignorance of the painter about all the factors which can cause bad results.

    All paints have their own idiosyncracies. This is why pro painters prefer to use products with which they are familiar. They know how they act under different circumstances. One can hardly expect the homeowner who paints ever two or three years to be as knowledgeable or proficient as the pro who does it day in and day out. It is not just the pros labor that is being bought, it is his years of experience and knowledge.





  • Marc Adrian

    @David, it's amazing how we can have such differences in experience with the same brand. I completely get what you're saying about all the subtle factors that go into making a paint job come out well. I've been painting rooms on and off for years, not as a professional painter, but as a renter/home owner. I will say that when I'm done with a job, it's indistinguishable from what a pro would do, and I'm pretty proud of that. I take a lot of time and care in the process, especially in buying premium tools, in prepping the walls, and getting sharp lines and evenly applied colors. In my experience, both Behr primer and "Ultra" paint do not hide very well. The paint seems particularly thin to me and thus given to streaking/uneven drying. On the front of the can label of the Ultra product, it says, "better coverage with fewer coats." That's not exactly a confident statement of Behr Ultra's hiding ability! I don't experience this coverage problem much at all with SW or BM paints, and that's the truth of my experiences thus far between brands.

  • David Jensen

    Marc,

    Ultra Flat is in most of my house. I have had no problems with it, but I have a muddy tan color by he name of "Latte". Were I to tyr to return to an off white in one coat, I would anticipate problems with the Ultra, or most any other brand of paint. The Behr Marquee is guaranteed one coat if a color is chosen from the approved palette of colors, but it is over $40 per gallon. It covers so well because it has about 20% more white pigment than the Ultra . The palette of colors is chosen because of the known blocking ability of the tint pigments, i.e. organic pigments, such as raw umber and lamb black, block light transfer, whereas the inorganic primary colors ( red, blue, yellow) do not. If you check the Marquee palette, you would notice that there are no bright or pastel colors. They are mostly dull, subdued colors.

    Even as a life long Pro, I never really knew if a color was going to cover well until it was actually on the wall. There are just too many variables. The best i could do was to make an educated guess. Presently, grays are really popular. Grays cover extremely well because they have relatively lots of white pigment and lots of organic black pigment, both of which increase hiding ability.





  • jn3344

    Currently painting every surface of my inlaws new house. They wanted to use Behr.

    I am using the Ultra. Great paint, thank goodness.

    Paintguy once remarked that amateurs make 2 mistakes. They don't use enough paint, and they overwork it. My fil is helping. Shiik shiik shiik....overworking a dry roller is right lol. Won't listen to reason. He popped a vessel in his wrist he presses the roller so hard. The Behr ultra has been VERY forgiving.

    It is somewhat thin, which I don't mind but some ppl like a thicker paint. It stays wet longer.

    Coverage is good, except on the darker accent wall. That required 2 coats to paint over. Otherwise all like shades covered in one. I do 2 coats on the woodwork after priming but that's me.

    Good luck.

  • B.

    >>>I read the reviews of Behr paint and wonder about the disconnect? How
    can presumably the same product be giving such a wide range of results?
    My general conclusion is that the majority of users are unaware or all
    the factors that can influence a paint jobs results


    This past year I have done a lot of home painting and for the most part: all brands have worked very well. However we did not buy the cheapest paint out there.


    But...


    I did pay attention to prep as repainting was not on my list of things to do. There is a learning curve to all of this, in my younger days I did very little research /time on painting, resulting in failure. Those just starting out, I would recommend against going to the Big Box for advise. They told me no primer was needed on old paneling that I had sanded down, and a rough surface...well wrong advise. Other than that I got through the ordeal with good prep ie sanding, cleaning.


    My preference now is for SW and BM, mostly lean to SW during the constant sales when it is 40% off. We painted some floors also and learned not to prime before using floor paint. Little details like: primer is not built for floors because there is no flex built into the paint like a real floor paint. Primer is much more brittle than floor paint and SW said to use their floor paint right over my bare wood floors. Perfect results, and the stuff is sticking and wearing well.

    My guess is a Big Box would not know that but SW did. The projects turned out great and we painted two floors. Maybe you can save a little at the Big Box, but you lose it all by not getting proper details on how things work. Also used the paint forums a lot and paint company tech reps listed on the back of the cans.

    Another thing I like is Wooster paint brushes and 'weeny rollers'. With a fine knap on the tiny rollers it gave me a fine finish, so much so that I used a SW 6" weeny roller to do my dining room wall. This is a small room and with patience the results were great. The Wooster brushes were available at the Big Box in a 3 assorted pack at a great discount. Using better brushes will discipline a painter, they must be washed immediately after painting or covered with a bag.

    We also did a lot of sanding and found that sanding sponges were the answer, for larger areas I got an orbital sander. The sander was a Skil model and seemed to work quite well in handling dust. Lately I learned that sanding sponges are dirt cheap at Harbor Freight, so no excuse for not prepping. I also picked up a belt sander at Harbor Freight and that has worked well for areas of remodeling that needed a great deal more power than an orbital could handle.

    >>>How
    can presumably the same product be giving such a wide range of results?

    It may be that the wide variety of painting results are because there are hundreds of ways to do things wrong, but a few ways to do it right.

  • poppasmurf302

    the wide range of results is definitely due to preparation - if you prep the area(sand, prime if needed - with the correct products), just about any paint will cover and look good. sherwin williams is well ahead of behr and bm in quality of paint - I would stick with sw if you can. the average time is 80% for prep, and 20% for applying the paint...so just rolling/brushing over whatever is there usually doesnt work out too good. sherwin williams owns most of the paint industry in the usa, which gives them alot more research, manufaturing facilities, and raw materials. they have bought over half of their competition over the past 10 years, and combine the technology with thier own = better products. I have worked for most of the paint manufacturers as a technical rep and specified the coating processes (from sanding to topcoat). I dont know why they have commercials or advertise one coat/self priming paints - there are none anywhere. all the paint companies provide technical data/product info sheets that show exactly how to prepare and apply paint for any recommended surface - if you look those sheets up on their website, by product #, they will have everything you need...down to how thick to put on each coat, when to sand between coats, etc.

  • B.

    >>> I dont know why they have commercials or advertise one coat/self
    priming paints - there are none anywhere. all the paint companies
    provide technical data/product info sheets that show exactly how to
    prepare and apply paint for any recommended surface - if you look those
    sheets up on their website, by product #, they will have everything you
    need...down to how thick to put on each coat, when to sand between
    coats, etc.

    Paint/prime doesn't make sense to me either when they can sell more paint by doing it right. Of course we always don't have to prime, but if in doubt...prime. Product info sheets are good but chatting with some tech reps are very good. Sometimes they come up with stuff that I haven't thought of.

    Edit: Paint/primer is still just paint as there is no primer in paint/primer if my info is correct?

    I needed some cabinet paint this summer and went with BM Advance. Are you saying that SW would have been a better choice? If so then why?

    I tried to get some SW Pro classic in a darker trim color for another project and they couldn't mix dark colors, so haven't tried that paint. Pro Classic comes in lighter colors, do you think that would have been better for cabinets?

    In the end, the cabinets turned out fine and I used what was left on some doors and walls. Seems to be some durable stuff for a latex hybrid paint.

  • PRO
    Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

    Edit: Paint/primer is still just paint as there is no primer in paint/primer if my info is correct? Yes

  • David Jensen

    A good 100% acrylic resin paint has always been good at adhesion. You can go over existing paints of satin of lower sheen with absolutely no problems. If going over that dry contractor's paint, two coats will be in order.They are good at sealing new patches too. Most of the water based primers are acrylic based also.

    As to changing color, it is often more efficient, and even cost effective to just go around twice with a good "paint and primer in one" paint. First, the "primer" is exactly the right color. Secondly, if a white base paint is used, the paint will have just as much white pigment as a dedicated primer. You also might not end up with a half gallon of odd ball colored primer, and then a left over half gallon of paint for a medium sized room.

    One problem with paint and primers in one is that people assume it means only one coat - it does not. It only means that often the paint can be used where a dedicated primer would have been used, but often a second coat is required.

    If you have specific problems , such as stains, super slick surfaces or odor control , then yes, a dedicated primer/sealer may well be in order.

  • paintguy22

    The reason SW markets their paints as self priming or as having primer in the paint is because that is the trend in terms of marketing. It's the same reason they may claim a paint covers in one coat. In order to compete you have to offer the same product that the other companies are offering and then explain (usually BS) why your product is better. And, SW is not miles ahead of the others in terms of quality. All the big boys know how to make great paint...it's not some big secret how to do it. It's important to keep in mind though that 'primer in the paint' or 'paint and primer in one' is just another way to say that the paint is self priming, but it is said in such a way that the ignorant consumer will feel like the paint is special in some way. It is not special.

  • Vith

    I like the BM colors, toned down and not so saturated, but I like the Behr price. In my experience they do a good job color matching. BM and SW is more for contractors who get a business discount. The painters also have a better relationship with their supplier this way, and usually get better service (they can call in a paint and ask it be prepped ahead of time).

    Recently the store I visit most often has installed one of those light changing displays with a slider (and it actually works). This is paramount the most excellent thing ever as the color changes so much under the different color temperatures, and in pretty much all stores they use cooler fluorescents at the sample stands instead of what you find in most homes being that warmer color.

  • B.

    >>> It's important to keep in mind though that 'primer in the paint' or
    'paint and primer in one' is just another way to say that the paint is
    self priming, but it is said in such a way that the ignorant consumer
    will feel like the paint is special in some way. It is not special.


    The downside is that when someone should be using a real primer and decides not to because the can claims 'paint/primer', then there is a risk of the job going wrong. Almost happened to me, the Big Box told me just to paint the old paneling in my kitchen. Well at least I sanded it first, probably the only reason the paint stuck to the wall.


    Never again, I would rather prime first than to worry about the job going bad.

  • paintguy22

    Yea, plus big box store employees are not trained. They think there is actual primer in the can too.

  • David Jensen

    paintguy -

    This former contractor of almost 4 decades has been working in the "big box" for 11 years now. My father and grandfather practiced the trade since 1907 in this country and for years before in Denmark. So much for the generalization that there are no trained employees in the big box stores. I just attended an all day seminar last week, one of many I have attended over the years given by the manufacturers. This along with hours of required online courses which every new employee must take. I would not disagree, however, that there is a tendency to put associates out on the floor before they should be. However, it also often is the case at other paint stores that good help is not often to be found.





  • andrelaplume2

    And...again...a knowledgable associate can provide advise true... but there is a difference between having the right tools and knowing how to effectively use them.

    Hire a professional for an experienced result or watch some videos on prep and techniques. Then if u want good results double the time u think u will need. Start in an indiscrete room. If only one room is being painted and you are a beginner be prepared to perhaps repeat the job if not to u satisfaction. We get better with practice. Believe it or not u can get the same crappy results with a $15 roller cover vs a $3 one if u technique is poor.

  • paintguy22

    Yea, but you must admit the chances of getting good advice in an actual paint store is better. In the paint store, all they sell is paint. There is no chance that you will get some guy from the garden department assisting you.

  • PRO
    Glendora Professional Color Advisor

    Out of the choices Above I'd say BM is your best bet. Behr products are too watered down and their white is more of a gray so that effects the way the colors comes out when tinted. Stay away from SW they are a bit better than behr but they over price for the amount of TITO in their paint as well. BM offers a beautiful color selection and has an exellent product.


    HOWEVER I would love to put Dunn Edwards in the running here. We have an amazing selection of nearly 2,000 colors (not mention custom color mathces we can do), a superior paint product and a FREE Professional Color Advisor service (that's me) . Plus we have a ton of "kill test" listed on our website and in our store comparing each of our products to the competition.


    (: but like I said BM is a nice choice!

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