Its going to be difficult like ours was with the age of the hoome, but it can work... put the sink, dishwasher under the window. Get a counter-dept fridge - in a small kitchen, it really makes a difference for the dining room wall with a fridge panel for the end and stove on the long wall. You aren't going to get a dream kitchen, but you can have a very nice one.

Can you tell us more about what you need in the kitchen? Do you need pantry space? Are you wanting any seating? Are you planning on a 30" range? Dishwasher? What do you HAVE to have vs. would just like to have? Any preferences on sink/appliance locations?

Where does the hallway lead? Will have lots of traffic through the kitchen, or is the dining room a "dead end?"

How wide are the doors/doorways?
Is the doorway on the bottom/south end a main access or only occasionally used? Where does it lead?
Do you bake? Do you want a coffee/tea/beverage center?
What appliances do you plan on having (helps to figure out work flow, work zones, and types of cabinets...upper/lower vs full height, etc.)

• Range or Cooktop?
• Single or Double or no Wall Oven?
• Warming Drawer?
• MW? (Advantium, drawer, OTR, countertop, built-in, shelf?)
• DW? Standard or drawers? If drawers, 1 or 2?
• Refrigerator CD or standard depth?
• Vent Hood?
• Other?
• Sizes of desired appliances (e.g., 30" or 36" or 48" cooktop; 36" or 42" or 48" wide or other Refrigerator? Counter depth or standard depth refrigerator, etc.)

Pantry: Walk-in or cabinets?
***** Very Important *****

Is there anything you:

• Can't live without?
• Definitely don't want?
• Would like if you can find a way?

Boy, I thought I had a challenging space! This is the best I could come up with. You could do a lot better if you closed up the window and put the refrigerator over there. This layout has an 18" dishwasher and 30" built in fridge with a 3" filler beside it. I'm not sure that's enough to get the drawers out or not. Personally, I'd keep looking.

THANKS FOR THE RESPONSES! I'll post a couple of my proposed layouts shortly.

The hallway leads to the entry (due north), a bathroom, and the garage. The dining room also has glass french doors leading to the outside on the south side and an entrance to the living room on the north side.

How wide are the doors/doorways?
A: The doorways are 2'6" ?

Is the doorway on the bottom/south end a main access or only occasionally used? Where does it lead?
A: It is occasionally used and it leads to the backyard.

Do you bake? Do you want a coffee/tea/beverage center?
A: Yes, I bake. Although a coffee center would be nice, it is not crucial to the design.

What appliances do you plan on having (helps to figure out work flow, work zones, and types of cabinets...upper/lower vs full height, etc.)
Range or Cooktop?
A: Either.

Single or Double or no Wall Oven?
A: Although double would be nice, I would settle for a single.

Warming Drawer?
MW? (Advantium, drawer, OTR, countertop, built-in, shelf?)
A: Built-in preferred.

DW? Standard or drawers? If drawers, 1 or 2?
A: Standard OR drawers. 1 drawer would be sufficient.

Refrigerator CD or standard depth?
A: Considering the small space, counter depth preferred.

Vent Hood?
Other?
A: Microwave OR vent hood... Not sure.

Sizes of desired appliances (e.g., 30" or 36" or 48" cooktop; 36" or 42" or 48" wide or other Refrigerator? Counter depth or standard depth refrigerator, etc.)
A: Starting from scratch, I'm trying to start the design with smaller appliances then increase sizes where permitted.

Pantry: Walk-in or cabinets?
A: No space allowed for walk-in.

***** Very Important *****
Is there anything you:

Can't live without?
Definitely don't want?
Would like if you can find a way?
A: Would really like a space for 2-4 stools OR a place for a SMALL computer workstation.

First thought i had - is the door on window wall a french door? Would you consider making that a single door and changing the swing of the door - if that is possible it would open up lots of opportunity
- If that is possible - I would put sink & DW on that wall with some counter cab space - not knowing dimensions hard to tell how much you would end up with for counter/cab - you could store daily dish/silver/glasses

are the hallway & DR casement openings or doors? - If they are doors I would change them to casement openings - not that it offers opportunity, rather it opens the kitchen - making it feel more spacious & utilize the DR for everyday seating
Which walls are exterior?
If the long wall (10'5" ) is ext I would opt for range to be centered there - giving you direct venting to exterior for the hood and a range makes better use of floorplan than cooktop/wall oven . A 30" range would give you plenty of space on either side for counter/cabs - even a 36" range still offers 3 1/2 ft on either side to do counters/cabs
Given you have 9' ceilings running cabs to ceiling will offer best use - instead of a pantry you could do a counter depth fridge (suggest above) and pantry in a hutch style that offers a little landing space beside refridge perhaps on the 6'3" wall

I'll assume you are willing/not needing 48" & above type appliances as well as other non necessities in a small kitchen - island, beverage refridge - perhaps even seating which seems like it would interfere with whatever floorplan you come up with

Good luck

If you can change that sliding door to a single french door, you can gain 5 feet of counter space on that wall. Or you could have a pantry in that corner.

You might consider replacing the space-gobbling patio door with a regular passthru door in the lower left corner. It would create more useable wallspace on your window and keep traffic from the hall out of your work zones.

That small a kitchen screams for a galley kitchen layout to be efficient. Get rid of the patio door and put in a single glass door and use the space that the other one hogs for cabinetry. Then the range can go on that small 5' section of wall, the fridge on the other side of the hall doorway, and the sink and DW on the wall to the DR.

Thanks for all of the help so far. Still working on it... Will be making an offer on another house on Monday if I can't figure out a better solution. Anyone else have ANY ideas? I would LOVE to buy this house if I can find a great solution for the kitchen...
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If the dining room has doors to the outside, does the kitchen really need that outside door too? Could you close off that door, make the window larger, and put your sink, and dishwasher on that side, maybe even your fridge?

You want the house, so you how about examining a basic assumption--no structural changes? What's the phobia about a minor structural change? Move a door. Eliminate a door. Add a window. Big deal. You're not wielding the hammer, right? If it's original woodwork, move it where it works--before another buyer sends it to the dump. Homes need to evolve to meet needs if they're to survive. If it's money, how about getting the appliances from Craig's List and puting the money into genuinely important and lasting improvements? How about this--gain significant more space by cantilevering a counterdepth out the back of the house--like a square window bay but kitchenwide and no foundation change--hang it off the house or set it on a slab. I'm extremely big on developing connections between one's inside home and one's outside home, but, as asked, must the door be in the kitchen? Best wishes getting a home you LOVE.

What do you think of this? There is 36" clearance between all areas. not positive where all of the appliances should/could go... But I think the range would go on the north wall and the dishwasher will be to the left of the sink. {{gwi:2106069}}

You said moving plumbing and electrical is OK, so does that mean you will have your walls open? If so, moving a doorway is no big deal. My husband and I have done it many times--it's certainly easier than moving plumbing. Just a thought.

Hm. I've been playing around some, and without taking out or opening up a wall (say, to the now-informal dining room), other than what withan suggested I'm not seeing how you can get seating in that kitchen. But if you'd reconsider the minor structural mods, I think you'd have a workable space.

sample layout to optimize the central area of a square kitchen with three doors.

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Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2106070}}

I did not read all the responses but could you live without the doorway?? I would wall up that area and have more wall space or eating space.

Withane...

Width of Kitchen: At 10'5" (125") you do not have room for this...

First, you've created a very narrow "U" and anyone in there will be "trapped". It will NOT be fun/easy to work in there. If more than one person is in the kitchen (cooking, cleaning up, trolling for a snack, getting a glass of water, etc.), you will be constantly running into each other and constantly bumping elbows.

Second, CD refrigerators actually stick out 29" to 31" from the wall. The "CD" part is really the carcass or box of the refrigerator...and sometimes even the carcass is an inch or two deeper than 24"; the door & handles stick out beyond the counters...so you really have a 29" to 31" or so depth. To get a truly 24" deep refrigerator, you will have to get a built-in refrigerator...not cheap, btw.

The width of the kitchen, assuming standard cabinets, will be:
...30" of refrigerator/counter at the wall + 42" aisle + 1" overhang on the refrigerator side of peninsula + 24" of cabinet + 15" seating overhang + 54" = 166' (13'10")...much more than 10'5"!

OK, now adjusting for what you think you can live with:

The aisle width on the refrigerator side could be reduced to 36" IF you have SxS or French Door refrigerator.

The seating overhang could to 12", but it's not the best idea given that you have a sink in the peninsula and you are going to be subjecting anyone sitting on that peninsula to major splashing! 18" is actually better when you have a sink in an island or peninsula; but let's assume 12" anyway

I do NOT recommend reducing the aisle b/w the hallway door & peninsula to anything less than 48"...and that's really pushing it as that will probably be a major thoroughfare...60" would actually be better.

I was going to suggest getting reduced depth (18") cabinets for the peninsula but if you have a sink & DW in the peninsula, you won't be able to.

So, now:
...30" of refrigerator/counter at the wall + 36" aisle + 1" overhang on the refrigerator side of peninsula + 24" of cabinet + 12" seating overhang + 48" = 151' (12'7")...still much more than 10'5"!

Length of Kitchen: At 11'2.5" (134.5") you do not have room for this either...

First, the aisle b/w the peninsula & sliding door will be a major thoroughfare through the kitchen, so you need at least 42", preferably 48". It's also the only way you'll be able to get appliances to/from the kitchen, so you need aisles wide enough for that as well....

I highly recommend not making the peninsula long enough for 3 seats...that's 6' + 2'1" from the wall...but it will, of course, depend on what you can fit on that length (need room for sink + DW + wall cabinets + 1" overhang)

The length of the kitchen, assuming standard cabinets, will be:
...24" cabinets against the wall + 1" overhang + 72" for seating + 48" aisle = 145" (12'1")...again, more than 11'2.5"!

Let's see...if you reduce the wall cabinets on the west side of the peninsula to 18", then the...

If you replaced the double patio doors (that don't get much use) with a single door, you could do something like this:

I know you said nothing structural, but there is no way you might consider opening up the kitchen into the dining room by removing the wall?

Is it even a consideration?

Might not be as expensive as you think and would open up a whole new realm of possibilities.

Assuming you are willing to at least change the door, how about something like this? This may have been presented on the earlier thread, to be honest I didn't read it all.

• Workspace on both sides of the sink and DW does not open in the DR doorway.

• Range instead of separate cooktop & oven.

• Pantry Storage: 18" on the north-west corner as well as shallow storage (optional) on the west wall b/w the Hallway & outside door.

• You might be able to put a shallow desk where the 12" deep cabinet is...

• A thought...if you think you'll rarely use the outside door(s), perhaps you could get rolling island w/a collapsible overhang to roll around the kitchen for extra work space & for temporary seating. When not in use, store it in front of the outside door(s). (see link below "...The drop leaf top makes an instant breakfast bar...")

Here is a link that might be useful: Powell Kitchen Butler - Inset Granite Cutting Board

I too have a difficult kitchen, in that it is long and narrow. And I don't have a separate dining room so I have to maximize space everywhere. For me the critical factors were having ample counter space and a decent range. So what I decided to do was go with an undercounter all-fridge and an undercounter all-freezer. Each is 5.5 cu ft so a lot smaller than the typical behomoths people buy (they are customizable panel single door type - not drawer - about $800 each, made by Summit). But it opens up the kitchen tremendously by not having a hulking fridge. However, Liebherr makes a great fridge, both built-in and stand-alone models. They are counter depth and only 24" wide, but I think around 68" tall. If you think creatively about your appliances I don't think you'll have a problem coming up with a nice design - you have a lot more useable space in there than I do in mine. I also recommend the 18" Bosch dishwasher rather than the drawer types - it fits more and has a narrower footprint - if you get a single drawer the space beneath is wasted anyway due to the mechanics of the unit. Your french doors, while not allowing you to put in extra cabinets, are great because of the light they bring in.

Truthfully, I think we all feel we need these massive kitchens, but really, we can make do with much less space. This was proved to me this summer when friends from the UK were visiting (6 of them!) and we had no problem cooking and eating in my tiny space, pre-remodel, with only 3 linear ft of counterspace.

Will be interested to see what you end up doing!

So true on needing less space to walk around in but plenty to work on. Buehl's latest plan would work pretty well. It gives you a cleanup counter and a cooking/prep counter. I'd give up a shelf's worth of storage on the pantry corner to expand the work counter from decent to generous, though.

I second what oldhousemel said above. If you like the house -- its character, the light, the surroundings, etc. -- I wouldn't let a 10.5 X 11.5' kitchen hold you back. I've seen MUCH smaller kitchens -- in cities, and even here in the country -- that turned out some of the best meals and best times ever.

I also think, looking over all the great ideas above, that live wire oak's idea of a galley makes a lot of sense. Within that, you could play around with which appliances go where. I'd probably try the range/prep area along the dining room wall, the fridge along the short wall next to the hall doorway, and the sink/DW where Buehl has it. You could stick a shallow computer desk (even set the screen inside a niche in the wall, between two studs) in the corner there by the single-fied door to the porch, assuming that door doesn't get used too much.

Good luck!

One thing I forgot to mention: I have friends who created a bunch of 4"-deep shelves along a 4' wide, 6' tall stretch of wall by using the spaces between the studs. (Of course it's an interior wall, with drywall on the far side, and no need for insulation.) Those shelves accommodate virtually all of their cans and dry goods. And talk about easy access... My friends were originally planning to cover them with doors, but they have since decided to leave them exposed, especially since that wall is not visible from other rooms. Assuming you went with the galley idea, I'm wonering if the open wall at the top could be converted into recessed shelves like that...Just a thought...

Or have you already passed on this house?

Viva99...right now it's a sliding door (meaning it's twice as wide as shown in my layout), we're proposing the OP turn it into a FD so there's more wall space.

Others...in any layout, be sure you have plenty of work or landing space around the range...especially if it's near a doorway!

I also knew people with stud storage like that, but in sections on 3 different walls where there was no room for anything else. Like yours, Withane, an old house and a little old kitchen with strange nooks and too many doors. I'd forgotten it, but the open storage was all the decor the kitchen needed (or could use!) and was charming.

Bevangel's layout also looks pretty good and requires little change. Have you made any decisions?

I have to respectfully disagree...Bevangel's layout has the same change I proposed...changing the sliding door to a single door. The only difference is where the door is placed.

More importantly, it also has one big "deal breaker" for me...the sink run! (Sorry, Bevangel!)

(1) There's inadequate workspace around the sink...24" to the right (looking at the layout) is way too little considering there is none whatsoever to the left of the sink and

(2) the DW opens into the DR doorway.

[DW will take up approx 25" of wall space b/c you'll need at least an inch b/w the wall & the DW to clear the door frame, then you need at least 3" (preferably 6") b/w the outside door & the nearest cabinet at the other end, and a 1" overhang also at the end of the run...that leaves you with approx 29" - 32" of room for the sink base with no work space or buffer on the left side.]

I also would want the door to swing the other way as right now the door and oven doors are at great risk...if either one opens into the other you risk breaking the glass of the other (or both!)

With this kitchen, I think a range works better with the age of the house (1940). I also think it's a better use of space. Food & other storage as well as counterspace are at a premium in this size/configuration of a kitchen. I think a better use of a "tall cabinet" that takes away counterspace is a pantry cabinet. You could install an oven under the cooktop, but what's the point? The oven is closer to the floor than a range's oven would be and it's more expensive. If you argue that you could store food under the counter instead (b/c you've gained undercounter space), I'd argue that under counter food storage below the first drawer or so isn't as nice as over the counter or tall cabinets....but that's my opinion.

So what ever happened with the OP? Did she bid on this house?

Beuhl, I agree your plan is better than mine with regard to the clean-up area and if I were choosing, I'd take your plan over mine any day. But I was trying to figure out a way to fit in the wall oven and a small baking area as OP indicated she was a baker. Me, the closest I come to "baking" anything is a very occasional pan of biscuits... but the sink get used ALL the time. I didn't think about the problem of having the DW door open while you're trying to clear dishes from the dining room table. Good catch.

Actually tho, if it were me buying the house, I'd probably get rid of the door to the outside entirely and add another window instead. Or, widen the one that is there into a double-wide and make it into a slider window. (Like a slider patio door). Mount a counter-top just below the slider window on the outside and you could easily pass things into and out of the kitchen if you were bar-b-quing.

Since there is another set of patio doors in the dining room, people could just use those when they need to go in/out.

And, getting rid of the kitchen patio doors would allow for countertops along the exterior entire wall which would open up other possibilities for how to arrange the rest of the kitchen.