Hi there lwb9,

Have you bought your appliances yet ? I am thinking not since you mentioned you were not sure of whether to get a range or cooktop/oven combo.

It would help a lot if you gave some more information about your family - likes/dislikes and planned usage. Also - traffic patterns through the room and which walls are interior and which walls are exterior.

Where is plumbing now and can it be moved ? It's a bit difficult to determine this acurately from the picture in photobucket.

In the meantime - the link below will take you to a pamphlet of design guidelines...

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen design guideines

Welcome to the Kitchens Forum lwb9!

Have you had a chance to read the "Read Me" thread? It discusses what kind of information we need to help you with a layout (as well as provides a lot of other useful information).

As to aisle width, it depends...

• is the aisle a main thoroughfare?

what are the traffic patterns to/from/within the kitchen?
is this a one, two, or more person kitchen (meaning will one, two, or more people be working in the kitchen at one time...prepping, cooking, baking, cleaning up, etc.)? Now? Future?
is there seating on the aisle?
are there appliances on the aisle?
are there any access-related issues (e.g., handicap issues)?

Generally, 42" is the recommended minimum aisle width b/w counters and counters & island. More if there is seating involved. Some people have 36" and are OK with it while others prefer 48" or more. Let us know the answers to the above questions (as well as those in the "Read Me" thread) and we'll help you determine what's best for your kitchen...aisle width, appliance locations, etc.

Again, welcome and good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

You might consider getting some design software - we used BH&G interior designer. It cost about $50 and was great for floor plans and elevations.

There's also a thread on KD standards that lists distance between things and how much space you need for seating. But first I'd strongly recommend you make 3 lists:
1. Everything you like about your current kitchen - really everything.
2. Everything you hate
3. Everything in your kitchen and that should be in your kitchen. If you also list how much space it takes up that's great too, but not necessary if you have a gut sense of this. There's a thread containing starter lists.

These will help you design your kitchen around what you really need and want. You can test designs against these items to see what you're gaining and/or missing. It will also help you figure out what types of storage you need given the items you have. I kept mine in THE remodel notebook and would add to the likes/hates lists as I worked in the kitchen . I just flipped back to my lists for old times sake and have to smile - my hates list is about 4x as long as my likes! But what can you expect when you only have 2 outlets & no counter around the cooktop!

Hi, LWB9. The good news about working with limited spaces is that they tend to generate very efficient kitchens that are a breeze to work in. Regarding an island, however, the space is very marginal for one of those. I imagine you can have one, but it's not how I'd arrange the space if it were mine. (Think of an island as a counter with 3+ of the feet you'd be using chopped off and carried to the dump.)

Where does the door on the right wall go? Any chance of moving it to another room? If so, that would give you that entire wall to stretch cabinets across, with a galley counter in front. This can lend itself to every handsome layouts to look into from other spaces; some very classy ones in glossy magazines are this layout. Otherwise, I'm thinking a very functional shallow U, with both sides a happy pivot-step or step-step apart.

Regarding minimum space, sometimes people working with smaller spaces do best to not take recommended guidelines too seriously. Consider them, then pare down as reality dictates. 35 and 36" aisles are very common and work fine, and even narrower will can okay for just cook space, no family traffic. The issue to watch out for is making room for opening of doors and doing your best to position them so they don't block significant pathways when open (like, your husband's loading the dishwasher and you can't get to the sink to drain the noodles because the door's open).

Thank you for everything so far. I haven't purchased any thing yet. I am the only one cooking in the kitchen. I cook 3 meals a day all real food, so I am in there a lot . I do have 2 kids 10/6 and the door in the kitchen pictures leads from the garage to the rest of the house. I would love to have an area for the kids and hubby to eat at. Just found this site! I will post plans went to KD at local Lowe's but plans were off from our measurements. I love Quarter-sawn oak cabinets and one large sink Blanco silgranite maybe. I am gathering information and looking around this site even more. I'll be back with more info

Here is a link that might be useful: lwb9_photo

Since your going to DIY do you want/need to keep plumbing and electrical where it currently is? Can you change this around much?

Got caught up in the 1960's modern flavor of the original.
{{gwi:2106104}}

Thanks for the floor plan. Love the coat hooks and the seat! What program are you using? If I had a program to help me out that would be great. I am checking some out as I type. I have a Mac computer, I tried Ikea and BH&G but they won't work with mac. I have posted kitchen pic of Lowe's designer, sorry they are pictures of the plans my printer/scanner Is being temperamental. The KD rushed to give us something to think about she gave me what I have now with an island that won't work only leaves 34" on each side of island to wall and to counter.

Here is a link that might be useful: lwb9_photo

the 34" is with and over hang on island. Plumbing for sink I would like to stay but elec. can be moved and more outlets are set to be added. I have a brother in construction( that I trust) can help with any thing major. 5 yrs ago DH and I gutted and redid our bathroom for less than $2000 had some one help with hanging ceiling drywall but did the rest ourselves. Wish I would have found this forum then.

Here is a link that might be useful: lwb9_photo

Bmorepanic, I love how the sink/dishwasher bump-out *looks*, but if I were cooking at the stove and had to get something from the fridge or pantry, it would make me crazy to have to walk around it...

I don't know what's on the left of the kitchen (as the picture is oriented above), but depending on that, I'd rather see a penninsula coming out from the wall where you have the fridge. Not as cool a design, but maybe more practical? Could even have a couple of bar stools on the other side - function somewhat like the much-desired island would.

BMore, that's really fun, very 60s.

LWB9, I was afraid that was where that door went. (But still--is there active living area on the other side of the wall? Garage-house is typically a major trafficway that deserves a straight run to the middle of the house and not thru the kitchen.)

The Lowe's design looks nice and spacious, but if it were mine the island would gather lots of crud carried in from the car and very little food preparation: it's behind your back as you work at all your important appliances on the little scraps of counter there. You'd need something important, maybe a sink, to draw you to the island. If you worked there a lot, though, you'd have a big incentive to fight off other claims to that territory.

To the left of kitchen is dinning room with another window on exterior wall and a back door, rest of this wall is 8'5" from where I have kitchen ending. Kitchen is in back of ranch style house large living room in front. I am going to try to post original floor plan previous owners left .

Sorry, but IMO, main/cleanup sinks & ranges/cooktops should not be in an island or a peninsula unless absolutely necessary. This is for aesthetic, safety, functional, and even financial reasons (have you priced out an island vs wall vent hood?).

I think your best bet would be a peninsula, but I do agree I would not want the refrigerator or pantry outside the work area....at least not w/the peninsula b/w them.

What is the layout of the rest of the house? It looks like you come in from the garage, into the kitchen and then the dining room? Do you get to the rest of the house via the west end of the south wall?

How big is the dining room? Is it big enough that you could expand into it w/peninsula or island seating?

What appliances do you need? Want, if possible?

In your current kitchen, an island is kinda tough. It's just not quite wide enough for magazine style islands.

You can do a peninsula - it would be about as long as the back row of cabinets. When I try that, I always seem to have the ref left over without a home.

You could also do a straight line on the 146" side with some storage on the opposite wall. If you could move the back door to the center of the wall, it works fairly well to have storage on the other wall and a table height, tiny, peninsula with seating for three.

I use mspaint and got the grid lines from a pdf form of graph paper. mspaint don't do curves well.

In your designer's plan, consider going to a 30" single bowl sink in a 30" cabinet. If you take the extra 6 inches plus the total of 3+" of fillers and add to the missing 20", you can get an entire extra 30" cab on the long wall. Maybe consider placing the sink so you can look out the window, but have prep space directly in front of it. Then, if there is any way possible to replace the window with a taller one with the new countertop serving as the window sill so your main prep is a bit deeper?

I think your aisles could be a pair of 38" ones? (130" - wall counter of 26" - min island counter of 28") divided by 2?

If you decide against the island, the other thing that is sometimes useful (but is a trade-off for you) is to make the countertops in the "L" deeper - like 30". "Stuff" like toasters and coffee pots can pile up against the wall, but you still have plenty of counter left in front of them. The tradeoff parts are if you don't move the sink, the sink and range actually snuggle closer together and the corner cab becomes an issue of sorts.

I hope you get some more responses. More brains = better designs.

Thank you everyone you have made me do a lot of thinking. To answer some questions We need all new appliances, and I am willing to expand in to my dinning room. I have posted my home plans to give a better idea of the layout of my home.

Here is a link that might be useful: lwb9_photo

Room to left says Family but was always used as dining. and the 2'4" wall small divider between rooms or to hid fridge will be removed.

Here is a link that might be useful: lwb9_photo

LWB9, that space to the left obviously makes a nice dining room, and you have a nice living room too. Certainly the garage can't open into it. Sigh...

As always, I'm thinking of what I would do if it were mine, and, although moving the garage door to the center opens up some new possibilities, I wouldn't personally want my work areas that far apart, with traffic through. Some people have that arrangement and find it very workable, however.

Would your budget stretch to pushing out a counter-depth bay, echoing the one in the living room, where the sink is now?

I'm imagining:

The fridge and a pantry cabinet by the garage door, with work counter to the corner.

The stove set into the center of the bay, which would have wall instead of glass in the center and glass on the angled portions to each side.

The sink and its functions on a peninsula facing the dining area.

Having the stove in a bay would allow venting directly outside and keep it and you well out of traffic. It would also be somewhat different in style from the usual.

The work counter by the fridge could be fridge depth for both additional work space and to help the fridge look built in.

The cleanup/serving counter could be all counter height or be backed by a raised counter to clean up the view.

Started some plans on paper still looking for a kitchen design program for my Mac computer. I have made a few mistakes that my DH points out after I have everything scanned in but Oh well you can get the idea.

rosie don't have the budget to put in a bay like that in the back but you have given me a few new ideas. My DH like the moving of the door to the middle of the room and to have L shape kitchen on either side. I an going to keep working at it.

{{gwi:2106106}}

Here is a link that might be useful: lwb9_photos

Too bad. We have a lot of carpenters in our area these days who'd be glad of the work but no need for their services.

Charlikin,

I just loved the style of the original photos. Not the layout, but the colors and the clean lines.

I was thinking most of the food would be in the tall thing between the sink and the range or possible the tall thing near the seat. I'm not big on walking either.

The pantry is for bulk storage and brooms or I guess it could also be ovens or simply deleted. The tall thing at the seat could be kid-ville with their dishes, silverware and snacks or a place for them to park their stuff.

Hi, LWB9. The good news about working with limited spaces is that they tend to generate very efficient kitchens that are a breeze to work in. Regarding an island, however, the space is very marginal for one of those. I imagine you can have one, but it's not how I'd arrange the space if it were mine. (Think of an island as a counter with 3+ of the feet you'd be using chopped off and carried to the dump.)

Where does the door on the right wall go? Any chance of moving it to another room? If so, that would give you that entire wall to stretch cabinets across, with a galley counter in front. This can lend itself to every handsome layouts to look into from other spaces; some very classy ones in glossy magazines are this layout. Otherwise, I'm thinking a very functional shallow U, with both sides a happy pivot-step or step-step apart.

Regarding minimum space, sometimes people working with smaller spaces do best to not take recommended guidelines too seriously. Consider them, then pare down as reality dictates. 35 and 36" aisles are very common and work fine, and even narrower will can okay for just cook space, no family traffic. The issue to watch out for is making room for opening of doors and doing your best to position them so they don't block significant pathways when open (like, your husband's loading the dishwasher and you can't get to the sink to drain the noodles because the door's open).

Well, that was weird. I left the computer on this thread last night and had a glitch getting back to the forum this morning. Hope lots of great ideas came late at night. :)