"the drain hose lies in the bottom of the tub"

Get the hose set up so it empties into the tub without laying in it.

Hooking it up to a stand pipe will work just fine.

Suspect this does not have to do with the washer itself or the way the drain-hose is routed. My suspicion is that the drains to your septic system are not properly vented and/or the vent(s) is blocked. Suspect when the volume of discharge from the washer hits the drain, displaced/compressed septic air is not venting but is blowing back and that is where the smell is coming from.

My suggestion would be to find those vents and make certain they are not obstructed. I'll bet they are.

It's been suggested to me before that there might be a vent problem. Would the fact that we only get the sewer smell when the washer is on help in any way to narrow down the location of a blockage? I will investigate that angle further.

So, what to do about the discharge from hose from the washer?

1. I am not a plumber nor do I play one on TV.
2. There is NOTHING strange or different about a FL washer's internal plumbing with regards to it's draining.
3. with regard to "hooking into house plumbing", you can do either: drain into a sink or into a standpipe. The pipe is usually +34" tall with a trap at the bottom. "Hooking" it up is clipping the drain hose to the pipe and securing it so it doesn't fly off. The same is true about the sink, in that you attach the hose to the side of the sink.

How did you have the old washer 'connected'?

Was the house built before the mid 1980's, and if so, what is the diameter of the washing machine standpipe?

Code now requires standpipes to be 2" diameter however prior to the mid 1980's they were only 1-1/2".

I suspect there are a couple problems but i would need to know the standpipe diameter before proceeding.

I recall reading about front load washers smelling during the first load because water didn't drain properly and got trapped in the door gasket the last time they were run and bacteria grew. The second load after the smell there was no smell.

You might Google and see what you find.

"Would the fact that we only get the sewer smell when the washer is on help in any way to narrow down the location of a blockage? "

Location, no. The existing (assuming they exist....surely they do) vents are where they are. IMHO, they should be located and examined.

As to the timing, I doubt you have any other appliance that discharges itself as vigorously as your washing machine. I'm thinking that this volume of discharge is what's causing the displacement and compression of the air in the sewer lines leading to its blowing back into the laundry room. It seems clear to me, therefore, that the line from your laundry-room drain to the septic tank is either not vented properly or has an existing vent obstructed.

One more thought....is there any other drain in that laundry-room? If there is another one and that one happens to have a dry trap, that would allow sewer gas to escape even assuming well-functioning vents.

weedmeister:
We transplanted this washer from our old house to this house; we never saw how the previous owners had theirs hooked up, but we're certain they didn't have a newer washer. I suspect they had the hose over the side of the laundry tub, just as I have. Mine is wire-wrapped secured to keep from flailing around.

lazypup:
House was built in '82/'83, and the drain pipes are 1 1/2" black PVC.

justalurker:
I will do that, I believe my wife has already. We didn't notie this at our other house though.

asolo:
No, there is no other drain in the laundry room (which is on the main floor). Both the washer and the laundry tube use the same drain. On the subject of vents, they are there all right - they have caused us to have to modify reno plans (slightly) to avoid having to replace existing drains/vents. They stick out of walls in the most inconvenient places :)

When the washer discharges into the laundry-sink does it just drain down or do you notice it bubbling back a bit?

asolo:

For the answer to that and other of life's mysteries I'll have to run a load...be back tomorrow with your answer!

If it makes any difference the hose for the washer laying in the bottom of the tub, nowhere near the drain, so any force is dissipated...it's just gravity acting on the water.

Steve

That's good information. Just a volume thing, then. Will be interested to learn about bubble-back or no bubble-back.

Bet there's things you'd rather be workin' on, though.

Oh yeah... :)

If you can't find a load of laundry, get a bucket and pour a full bucket down the sink. Or just run a quick wash with no clothes.

Look under the bottom of your washer for the trap that catches buttons,change etc. Take that off and empty and clean it. Do you leave the door of the washer open after using it so that it can dry out on the inside? Do you use liquid detergent and liquid fabric softener? These have a tendency to build up on the outer tub and cause mold and odor. Also if you wash mostly in cold water that will cause a problem. Another thing with the detergents, you might want to cut back on the amount you use. Recommended amounts for F/L machines is 1-2 Tablespoons depending on the concentration(2X vs 3X). I would also run a hot water load with a cup of bleach or get some Affresh or Tide washing machine cleaner and run through it. I would try this before I would start tearing out plumbing. These machines can smell just like a sewer!

"Every time it is run (and only the first cycle, I might add)...."

Re-thinking in light of this early quote from you and post from Sparky823.

If its only the first cycle, wondering if the fragrance you're getting is from that initial discharge of "ripened" residual water left in the machine. Popping the lid on that trap before running your first cycle would answer that question instantly. Quick and easy to do. Just be sure to put a towel down under there to catch the several cups of water that will spill out as soon as you crack the seal.

Still suspect this is likely not the problem because you described the odor throughout the laundry room. Since you're discharging into a sink, it seems to me the odor would have been concentrated there if its from residual in the machine and you would have noticed that concentration instantly. Also, sewer gas is rather distinctive. I've never known a funky machine to match that smell.

Just noodling from afar.

asolo: (any relation to napoleon solo...lol)
Well I ran a couple short loads and here's what I saw...

Not knowing exactly what bubbling back is, but having the ability to make an educated guess, I would have to say the laundry tub drain is not doing that. The drain seems to be able to keep up with the flow of discharge from the machine. Mind you, for all my good intentions for observing, I only managed to catch the smaller rinse cycle.

While I've said the smell is throughout the laundry room, and it travels out from the doorless laundry room to the kitchen, it is most definitely stronger from the laundry tub sink. Gag reflex kicks in to high gear.

I don't think I ever mentioned it, but we're out in the boonies, drilled well (400') water. Not sure if that has any bearing...

sparky823:
We do leave the door open, we do use liquid detergent and softener. I believe my wife does prefer colder wash temps. I wish I could upload a sample of the odour, it's vile.

Googled "front load washer smell" and got 59,000 hits. Just reading a few seemed to be what you are complaining about with some good info.

Here's just one... http://housewares.about.com/od/laundryappliances/qt/preventingmold.htm

Might be worth some reading time.

The idea of "bubbling back" -- which, as another poster said, could be accomplished with any appropriate volume of water, since we're talking about gravity-only drain -- is to observe the nature of the draining. Should go right down, maybe with a spiral. Observing "bubbling back" upon draining would indicate insufficient venting....that is, the water draining down displacing air that, not able to vent, bubbles back instead. That is what I was looking for.

Well water would not be an issue.

I'm interested in the possibility of this coming from the washer itself. However, if it did, it seems to me that you would have residual odor on your laundry and you didn't report that. On the other hand, you said: "...most definitely stronger from the laundry tub sink." Therefore I'm not ready to let the machine off the hook although I do want the answer to the "bubbling back" question.

What is the longest your machine goes without being used? Examining the trap is so very easy, I'm wondering if you would learn something from opening that up, as I suggested, and observing odor of that residual water. My suspicion is that this is not your issue but doing that one time after your longest idle period would answer the question instantly.

I'm still betting on vents.

I thought that's what you meant by bubbling back. I had a good healthy spiral of water leaving the sink, it didn't seem as if there was an issue dealing with the volume.

WHat's the longest it sits idle? Well, my wife works in retail, I'm a computer nerd, so we both need to look tidy; I'm in the middle of renovations, so that's another change of cloths. Oh, did I mention 2 you kids and two hairy dogs. It doesn't sit idle for long. I can't believe bacteria/ mold could grow that fast.

At the most...and this is a stretch I'd say worst case it it goes 3 days between loads, although it's usually running at least every other day...

"I can't believe bacteria/ mold could grow that fast."

Neither can I...which is why I continually default to the vents.

Interesting about no bubbling back. Where's the obvious-source gas coming from, then?

Go buy you a box of Tide HE powder and start using it. Some folks can't use Tide so if you are one of those, then get a box of any HE powder and try this for a while. Also cut back on the softener. 20 Mule team Borax is also good to mix with you detergent-1/4 to 1/2 cup. You DEFINATELY need to empty that trap under the washer. You will be suprised at the lint and hair(you say you have dogs) and gunk in there. In a day or two that water can stink and even your drain hose is probably gunked up especially with the cold washes. You really need to run HOT water and bleach through it or one of the machine cleaners. Pull the rubber boot around the door back and look under it for any mold or gunk. You say the sink smells, pick up the drain hose and smell the end of it--does it smell? I still think your washer is the culprit. Does your Duet have the "Clean Washer" Cycle? If it has the Sanitize setting you need to run that also.

asolo:
As a troubleshooting step a while back I filled the tub partly with tap water - 4 inches deep or so. Obviously the stopper was in the drain(LOL). When the washer started to discharge I let it fill a bit more and then pulled the plug. I believe there was no smell when I did this. You would think that if the washer was causing the problem it would be apparent since I was hanging right over the tub - and discharge water.

What I find odd - regarding the vent as the source of the problem is why it only smells bad for the first run. That one I can't come up with a logical explanation.

sparky823:
We were told about the trap under the washer quite some time ago and it's something we check every so often. I'm not gonna lie to you and say I've done it recently or even this year (2010). But, after all the effort of getting down and dirty with it and cleaning it out, and even running the HE cleaner products, didn't really eliminate the problem. The first time I pulled the trap off the odour ( if there was one) was nothing like the aroma forthcoming after running a load.

I want to run a load and observe what happens when a more substantial amount of water has to drain. I might be a day or two getting to that though as I'm just getting ready to lay flooring in my living room, dining room and entrance hall.

I'll suggest Tide Powder to DW, we're ok with Tide...

I have clear access to all of the drain pipe to the main stack that come from the laundry, and at least know where the vent pipe is located. Is there anything I can do to/with those? Ahhh, who am I kidding, I've staring at a skid of laminate!

Will be back...

Steve

don't worry about the washer. I don't think that is your problem. I favor the venting of the drain line as the issue.

Is there a floor drain?

Is there a separate stand pipe from the sink that isn't being used?

What did you mean when you said "vents stick out of walls"?

What did you mean when you said "washer and laundry tube share the same drain"? Is there a Y-connection here?

Well, sllwly the house is coming back together after my flooring job. Looks like a new house :)

Back to the washer....

WEEDMEISTER:
>>Is there a floor drain?
No, Laundry is on main floor of house.

>>Is there a separate stand pipe from the sink that isn't being used?
I don't think so, I can trace the plumbing for the laundry tub from the crawlspace underneath and it appears there is only the one drain. I might not be clear on what the proper definition of what a "Stand Pipe" is...

>>What did you mean when you said "vents stick out of walls"?
In the upstairs bathroom, as an example, the drain plumbing and vent pipe were outside the wall underneath the vanity cabinet. I had thought about making it all neat, but would have had to have done all kinds of extra work, I ended up boxing it in with a "feature wall" as the new vanity wasn't a vanity, but an old dresser converted to a vanity and we wanted at least the look of a clean install. Isn't really applicable to my current situation with the washer though.

>>What did you mean when you said "washer and laundry tube share the same drain"? Is there a Y-connection here?
Washer drains directly into the laundry tub. The drain hose from the washer runs over the side of the laundry tub then lays on the bottom of it.

For me, the simple definition of a 'stand pipe' is, well, a pipe that stands. As in a vertical pipe about 36" tall with a trap at the bottom, open at the top. In some laundries, they are built into the wall where the hot and cold supplies hook up.

That's what I figured it was. I guess I should have really googled the term. Hmmm, based on that description...and because of where my p-trap is (right under the laundry drain), I'm not sure the drain line from the laundry tub qualifies to fit that description. There is definitely no 36" drop else I'd be almost on the crawlspace floor, and below the main house drain line.