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lisa11310

de clawing, wil it hepl?

17 years ago

First let me say I do know there are several regular posters that think declawing is the WORST thing in the world and would prefer to re home or "PTS" as one would say. I respect your oppinions and passion but really dont want to hear from you thanks.

I ended up with 2 extra cats this late fall (OCT), some of you may be familliar with my posts. I had 2 male indoor only cats, nice family ..no problems. A female Calico showed up as a stray this summer and took 3 months before I could even touch her (she is on my lap purring as I type)another female black Bermise type kitten showed up and came in the house 2 weeks before the calico did. Got both girls spayed, didnt mean to keep them but no kill shelters are full and fosters are NOT acepting cats. So I guess they are mine now. The two new cats do NOT get along, the Kitten now 10 months old will attack the calico every chance she gets I squirt her with the water gun when she does but it does not seem to sink in. The calico (3-4 ys old)litterally lives under my bed. The only time she is out is when I am on the computer (on my lap) or when i take her into the bathroom and shut her in to eat and potty in peace,this cat is getting no excercise or entertainment. The boys are declawed, the girls are not. I really dont want to declaw but I thik if I de claw the kitten (who has taken over as "the boss" with all the cats) life will be much better for all cats involved...my poor guys have scratched nozes and the calico is not having much of a life living under the bed. I know de clawing is bad, but I have had many de clawed cats that lived long happy indoor only lives....do you think getting the Alpha cat declawed will help ?

Comments (20)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Honestly............no. It's part of her personality and changing a physical part of her will have no effect. If anything, she may get worse since the loss of her claws will probably make her become a biter. It happens often with declawed cats.

    I don't know how large your home is, but I would probably isolate the kitten in a bedroom for several hours a day so that the calico has more freedom. Or at least put a screen door in one of the rooms and keep her there.
    I'm not of much help on behaviorial problems..........but hopefully the kitten improves as she matures.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I don't know how old the kitten is but mine is 5 months old and into everything and everybody unless she is asleep. I have gotten her into using the scratching post instead of the furniture but she does sometimes go after our legs, hands and arms with claws and bites at times. We are concentrating on giving her a squirt at the first sign of aggression now. I have little squirt bottles handy all over the house (got them at Sally's Beauty Store) and she is quickly getting the idea to only use her claws on the post and her teeth on her toys.

    We also got a really nice wand (but not expensive) at Petco. The end had a little chain on it and the store sells other attachments for it. Right now, the kitten likes the one with long metallic streamers and something like dried corn husks that rustle like fallen leaves. I give her a good 10-15 minute work out with it a couple of times a day and make sure she has plenty of those mini-mice to toss around. Her energy and stamina amazes me. But the vigorous play periods help her behave in between. I was so used to an adult cat, I forgot how much little ones need to play. I think their instincts tell them to practice stalking, pouncing, snatching, bunny-kicking and biting at a certain kitten age. It sounds like your kitten is "practicing" on the other cats. I saw a suggestion on TV of stuffing paper or cellophane bags in an old sock and tying it to a string to give a cat something to wrap around and bunny-kick. My kitten is still pretty little and is afraid of something as big as a sock but my older cat enjoyed it once in a while.

    My son reminded me that our first cat did the same thing as a kitten and grew out of it. I forgot we used to call her Wild Thing. I recently read that this stage passes in a matter of months and after they are a year or so and they go into the lounging stage you will wonder where the frisky kitten went.

    You are very kind to make a nice home for so many cats. I hope others have more ideas for you. Good luck.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I agree with Annz. Bob is our first cat with no claws (he arrived that way)and it doesn't seem to make a difference. He is still trying to de-throne Cleo who was clearly dominant before. He might not be able to scratch, but tussles with her on occasion just like any other cat. Plus he is young and pounces on anything that moves. Cat, dog, human or toy. Bob is also immune to the water bottle, but doesn't like the can with compressed air. You can't squirt across the room, but it works if you get close. Maybe give that a try.
    Katharina

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    First, and above all, this is wonderful of you to have taken in these 2 cats.
    However, declawing is NO ANSWER and has NOTHING to do with liveliness or aggression. Most likely, aggression will get worse. Kittens are full of life, and that will pass with time. If you are mostly concerned with nose scratches and you should be, trim your kitten's nails regularly. Only allow some (supervised) time between the 2 females.
    LAST resort, find a home for this kitten.
    Again, declawing is NO solution. I know you don't want to hear from the anti-declaw people, but the 2 problems are not connected... so you won't solve anything!

    Good luck, Anne-Marie

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Lisa,

    First, try cutting her claws regularly, to take the sharpness of.

    If that does not work try SoftPaws My friend swears by them! But they must be checked weekly for over-growth.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Yes, thank you for giving those kitties a home! The only advice I would add is to give this more time. If I read correctly the new kitties have been in your house only since October? That isn't much time at all for a kitty. It can take six months to integrate and is worth taking the time. Although it's rough right now, segregating the more active kitty to allow the other cats to feel safer can help them to more slowly get used to each other and settle in together. You might also consider giving the calico her own room where she can feel safe but see and smell the other kitties.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Lisa. I *KNOW* your pain!

    I have a 6 month old kitten who is very sweet but has a demonic side to her at times. We have 6 cats and none are declawed but this is the first one I've seriously thought of declawing. She needs to be sedated to trim her nails otherwise we are all bitten and scratched up in the failed attempt.

    Some of the cats who are more the Alpha type become biters when de-clawed. Some become the most docile things on the planet when they can't use their primary weapons. There's no way to predict which way your cat would turn. It could be she would stay an Alpha and swat everyone without hurting them and NOT turn to biting. Wish I knew what sort of change the declawing would elicit.

    I've not used the SoftPaws but have treated some cats with fungal infections at the base of the nails from its use. Kinda like some people can get into problems if they use acrylic nails.

    I've started using Feliway pheramone spray to calm the situation here and the kitten goes into her demonic ways less often. They're all different in their personalities. Some just don't care for the company of other cats or other animals. That may be what your problem kitty feels.

    If all else fails, give them a bunch of catnip and catnip toys. Get them high on kitty LSD. :-)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I agree with annz. Declawing will not change either of the females' personalities. The calico will continue to be afraid of the kitten whether the kitten has claws or not, and the kitten will continue to attack the calico as long as she's allowed to do so (or until she outgrows it, which may or may not happen). Declawing will eliminate claw-induced injuries, but it may increase bite injuries.

    Your kitten is still young, and her personality and behavior patterns are still developing. I would normally advise putting her into a harness and leash so that you can control her interactions with the calico and correct her as soon as she misbehaves, but it probably wouldn't do any good now that the calico is already spending all of her time in hiding. You can't correct what doesn't happen, and if the calico is too scared to come out, the kitten isn't likely to attack her.

    Hopefully the kitten won't mature into a bully, but at 10 mos, there's a good chance she will. The calico is clearly a "victim" type. I live in a houseful of cats with a few bullies and a few victims. Generally speaking, bullies stay bullies and victims stay victims, though the degree of each condition can diminish over time. The three young adult intact toms who appeared on my farm three years ago (the Three Mouseketeers) are all bullies. When I incorporated them into my household, they started to bully several of the more passive resident males. It took three years before the passive males finally started to reclaim their household territory outside of my office where they've spent 90% of their time for the last three years. Even so, the Mouseketeers are still bullies, and I still have to sequester them in a separate room when I leave the house so that they won't attack the passive boys while I'm gone.

    It's not easy or pleasant living in fear of a bully, so you need to do what you can to keep your calico safe. I know it's not what you want to hear, but if you have a friend or relative who falls in love with her and can keep her as an only cat, you might want to seriously consider that option. Otherwise, you should make sure the girls are securely separated from each other when you are not in the house to supervise their interactions.

    Also, you might consider using a form of discipline that has a more meaningful effect on your kitten when she goes on the attack. If she ignores a water spray, perhaps she'll get the point if you grab her by the scruff of her neck and scream directly into her face or sting her on the butt. Yes, I know, these are forms of punishment that many will find unacceptable, but the longer you allow the kitten's aggressive behavior to continue, the worse life will get for your calico, and the more likely one or both of your girls will get physically injured during these attacks.

    Claws or no claws is not the issue. Teeth do more damage than claws (every abscessed wound in my household was caused by a bite, not a scratch). Behavior modification and separation of the bully from the victim are the keys to maintaining a safe living environment for your cats.

    Good luck,

    Laurie

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks for all your input. Miss Emma is a smart girl and has been cuddling up to DH who last month told me he was beginning to hate cats (all the uproar of 2 new cats and the boys behaving badly). My Ernie cat would be lost without her, they ram around and play for hours on end. Mr Abner is glad she is here too becaus now Ernie leaves him alone. There is no where to isolate Emma, or Calie in the winter. Our home is a completely open floor plan, the 2 bedrooms are not an options DH will not allow them in there. We have a large second story sun porch ideal for them and they LOVE it out there but it is not heated. I figure if the windows get frost on the inside it's too cold to leave a cat out there for any length of time. I guess Calie will just have to live under the bed until spring or until she decides she has had enough of Emmas bullying. Lucky for her I work from home and am on my computer for hours at a time.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Another thing you could do is spay her and give her to a barn, they could use a mouser. She can live semi wild, and being spayed will never have kittens.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I agree with the others. If you declaw her she will likely become a biter, more so because she is already somewhat aggressive. If she uses her claws to bully then her claws are just a tool. She'll resort to the next obvious tool, her teeth. And she will still use stealth, etc., to torment the other cats. I've seen cats terrorize other cats without ever actually touching the "victim" cat. Can you attempt to rehome the kitten while she is still young?

    In addition to the water bottle, you can try make a loud "tst" noise, shake a can of pennies, or even get very close to her and yell "no, bad kitty" in her face.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sue, I did try to find a home for her. We have a Cats and Dogs magazine that the rescue groups put out. On the cover was a litter of black kittens and I cant tell you how many other black cats were in there. I brought her in just before Halloween and of course would not let her go anywhere at that time. She had been on a waiting list to go to a no kill shelter. Well there's no way this girl is going to go be locked up in a cage for who knows how long, she is now one of our children, I have made the commitment and this will be her forever home. As some of you said it has not been that long, she is still young and full of it. She and Calie will just have to work this out because they both deserve a forever home. Thank you for all your suggestions!

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If no home can be found and if no barn or rescue org can take her, putting to sleep may be the kindest option. It only takes 2 seconds and it painless. By paying money to get her de clawed you are rewarding a practice that harms untold hundreds of cats everyday- many who just do it out of pure ignorance, at least you have the brains to wait and see, there are tons of people who just do it, to do it.

    Letting go is hard, but its sometimes needed.


    Another last dash thing you can do is spay her and release her outdoors by your place,and feed her every now and then. She'll come to know the outdoor territory as this new home, and live outdoors. She may live a shorter life but it may be a more satisfying one, some cats are too wild to be with people.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I used the soft paws on my male cat recently. He had feline acne and was tearing up his own face. They worked very well and were easy to put on- buy the clear ones to start if you try this route as it's much easier to see how much adhesive you are putting in there. You do need to check them, but that's minimal.

    I don't know if they will help at all with one being aggressive and one being timid, but they might ease the scratched noses until she outgrows being a wild child.

    Good luck.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hope everything goes well, If you do decide outdoors, remember to leave food out, and if you start seeing other cats, trap, fix um and release TNR they call it, or take them in to shelters.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you Runs, but I have a certified natural wildlife habitat and a bird sancuary here. Cats are not welcome on my propery. Emma IS spayed. We have 51" of snow out there. I do not put healthy happy animals to sleep because they are inconvienant
    That would be like killing a child because it was unruly. She will NOT be left outdoors, she will NOT be put in a shelter and she will NOT go to a home where they let their cats roam outside. I believe she will remain here if I have my way (DH not to sure yet). I am praying the two girls get over their problems soon.....and all can be happy. I love these cats.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Oh... thats understandable. Didn't know the details.

    Hope everything go well.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This sounds so much like my house. I know what you're going through.

    We trapped a pregnant cat this summer, thinking we'd find the kittens homes and TNR the momma cat (the neighbor has a semi-feral colony- they're too sweet to be stuck outside but too old to be box-trained indoor cats, and too wild for us to be able to really tame the kittens- his heart is in the right place, but he makes me so mad I could spit). Of course she turns into a lap cat who has no interest in going outside (none of her litter lived- half were horribly deformed and the other half she killed). She's great with us, but horribly nasty with the other cats. She's afraid of one and attacks the other three (five total). She lives under the bed in the basement, courtesy of the one she's afraid of. I would love it if we could find her a home where she was free to roam the house, but no luck so far.

    Our newest kitten (another one we trapped- was going to be a gift for my MIL but we fell in love with her) follows the big male around all the time. It's so cute- you can just tell he's her hero!

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If your cats are not getting along, maybe you can find a home where they will be happier. Good luck

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Good idea. At work we had a woman who lives in Group home care substain a bite from her de clawed cats.. I hope it gets reported.