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Layout Advice Requested - Old house kitchen reno

14 years ago

The wife and I have pretty much debated all our ideas and still manage to be on speaking terms, so it's time to throw an independent opinion into the mix so that we can start our arguments all over again!

We've got a long, narrow kitchen that hasn't been updated since the early 80's. Since it's an old house, we've got large windows that go down to within ~2ft of the floor so putting the traditional sink in front of the window isn't practical. The opposite side of the room shares a wall with the dining room. While we'd love to open it up and make it more continuous space with the DR, that option isn't possible because the interior wall is solid brick/stone and is load bearing for the additional 20ft of brick wall above it.

One of the main decisions that we haven't fully committed to is that we're thinking of putting a floating counter in front of one of the window. We envision this as giving us additional prep area, breakfast bar, and a spot for guests to hang out while we're cooking. The window also gives us a nice view out to the gardens and back yard.

Planned cabinet finishes will be similar to the inspiration picture at the link below, with cabinets on the "working kitchen" side being an antique white, while the opposite side will be a dark, stained finish. The idea is that the stained cabinets will be your view as you enter the kitchen from the dining room, and will tie in with a large cabinet/bar that we hope to put in the corner directly in front of the entry from DR.

OK folks, what do you think and where are the problems that you see?

Here is a link that might be useful: Layout and Inspiration Picture

Comments (15)

  • 14 years ago

    Premptive answers to questions:
    We've got 1-2 cooks, No kids, and occasional casual entertaining





  • 14 years ago

    WOW! What a gorgeous Italianate. Where are you? Reminds me of Upstate NY.

    The first thing that jumped out at me--I'd rejigger your bar area so that the sink is more accessible from your secondary prep area. Can't prep without water. That should also be the side where you plan to locate coffee pot and any other self-service entertaining thingie--not past the range. Can you vent the range from that position?

  • 14 years ago

    We're down in SW Ohio, just north of Cincinnati.
    Lots of old Italianates on our street. Follow the link if you want a tour of the neighborhood.

    Good suggestion on the bar sink. I hadn't completely decided whether I go through with it and make that a "wet" bar, but having that dual function with the second prep zone helps to justify the additional cost.
    Range venting will be a challenge, but I've got 2 ways I think I can manage it - #1 (green pipe) is to make a couple bends and I can hit a wall cavity and make it down to the crawlspace, where existing vent is for our old JennAir downdraft. For #2 (blue pipe)if I run vent up above 9' I can make a left turn and get through that last upper cabinet (that's why they go up to 10') and hit a void above the ceiling in the powder room. In there I'd need to punch through a 12" brick wall to get the vent outside.
    Anyone out there ever run their traditional overhead range vent down through the crawlspace like that? I've had at least one kitchen designer tell me that it was not that uncommon.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Middletown OH Historic District

  • 14 years ago

    Stunning neighborhood. I want your wassail recipe.

    There have been debates here about through-basement venting. I'm playing Switzerland on that one. You need an HVAC guy to calculate what the cfms will be at the hood after 3 right-angle bends and a turn upside down. It's also against code in certain municipalities.

    BTW where is your trash going? You might want to put a narrower trash pullout next to the sink, or else put a trash pullout under the sink.

  • 14 years ago

    Beautiful house- i have been to Middletown, Ohio, and certainly don't remember seeing houses like that!

    Any way to move the door to the mudroom down closer to the exterior door?

  • 14 years ago

    Yes, I've struggled with the trash location. I know I need to have it near the prep/cleanup zones but would hate to give up any drawers or drawers near the sink.
    Is it possible to get a decent sized can under the sink as a pullout? Also, what would you think about putting a second pullout under the base of the bar unit to use for recyclables?

    As for mudroom entry, I'll have to post a diagram of that attached space and our plans. None of that is captured yet in what I've posted. We've got another 7' window in there and we're looking forward to the additional natural light we'll get for the kitchen when we widen that doorway.

  • 14 years ago

    Here's a good thread on trash under the sink. I hope to use the info when I get further along. Hope it is helpful.
    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0321361031721.html

    Here is a link that might be useful: trash under the sink

  • 14 years ago

    A drop-dead gorgeous house in a fabulous neighborhood - that's a Christmas tour I'd like to take but I'm in VA, LOL.

    I feel your pain in trying to design a kitchen around all of the stationary features as I have a house that's even older than yours with a similar size & shape kitchen, & similar but different obstacles. It looks like you'll have a lot more counter space though. The ideas of moving the coffee station to the bar area & sliding the wet bar closer to the #2 prep areas are good ones. As for the trash, is it possible to have a smaller sink base? If so you might be able to incorporate that saving along with inches shaved off of the 30" cabinet next to the range. And speaking of that 30" base cabinet - isn't the door next to the wall going to hit the radiator?

  • 14 years ago

    Elphaba - thanks for the link. I'll take some time to study those solutions. Our cabinets will all be hand made by a small local shop, and they've assured me that they can incororate anythinge we want. A tweak of an inch or two one way or another and hopefully we can get the can to work there under the sink.

    Antiquesilver - I hadn't mentioned before, but I'm planning to remove the current 1930's hot water radiators to free up wall space and in their place install fan-assisted, under floor convectors (see link). I'm also planning to put electric radiant under the dining counter space so that it's toasty warm for breakfast. Likely going with a limestone look tile so that we can do the radiant heat.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Hydronic in floor kit

  • 14 years ago

    for the 2 of you, I would reduce the sink cab size a bit-30 or 33 can still fit a lg single bowl sink. With a dishwasher and 2nd sink that will still be generous. The wall cabs above this would be resized....try to do sizes where you won't have to open a single door of 24 in wide,as on that 48 in wide cab. Dbl door cabs from 30 to
    39 inches wide are all better sized doors for frequent openings. Thumbs up to the floating counter...are you opposed to stacked drawers flanking the range? The house looks in very good condition,must be wonderful to feel the charm every day.

  • 14 years ago

    Do you have a picture of the current kitchen?

    Maybe a traditional farmhouse sink on legs would work in front of the windows

  • 14 years ago

    Your home is beautiful.

    Loved the holiday tour of homes.

    Thanks for the link. Wonderful history.

  • 14 years ago

    Wow, lovely home.

    Try to go with 30" deep counters on at least the bottom wall, although I would do both. You can do this inexpensively by building a 2x6" frame behind the counters, or more expensively by ordering extra-deep countertops. You will incur the extra square footage cost on the countertop materials, but it's sooooo worth it. I grew up in the tiniest kitchen but never really noticed because it had 30" deep counters. This will also make the kitchen easier to work in by virtue of shrinking the middle aisle. Also, those uppers over your prep space will be much less in your face, although I would try to get rid of them altogether or at least not let them come down to face height.. it's miserable prepping with uppers in your face.

    As for layout, I would make the bar sink 6" larger, the cleanup sink 6" smaller, and switch their positions. Like this:

    Top wall from left to right: 24" DW with dish storage above, 30" cleanup sink w/ trash underneath, rest of wall as shown in your plan. 18" lower next to Fridge becomes dish storage.

    Bottom wall from left to right: 18" dish storage overflow/cookbooks, 36" cab but with larger square prep sink instead of small round bar sink and trash underneath, two 27" cabs for your prep for a total of 54" inches of prep space (you gain 6" because of the loss of the DW from this wall), rest of wall as shown in your plan.

  • 14 years ago

    For Lazygardens and anyone else that wanted to see photos of current kitchen and proposed mods in entry/mudroom and powder room, here you go. The peninsula in the middle of the kitchen was horrible when trying to have more than one person working, and only a few feet of usable counter space at standard height.



  • 14 years ago

    When I drew up my first plans I actually had 30" depth counters. However, one of the first kitchen planners that we talked to tried to discourage us from it, saying it would make access to the uppers too difficult.
    Any one else out the have a fondness for 30" counters like tracie.erin, or alternatively a bad experience with that setup? I've still got time to have my cabinet guy make me deeper boxes and I think the upcharge would be minimal.