The web server required would not reside in the router but in the control panel's main board. There are a lot of security issues that would need to be addressed that aren't needed by using the their application. It would also be likely that a fundamental architecture change in the board, processor and code would be required and that makes this ill advised for this product. I doubt the existing architecture can have apache or other web sever ported to it and it's not likely to have enough memory to store and run the programs behind the web server needed.

If what you asked for was a new high end product, this capability would be a the top of my requirements as a product development manager. But since I am just a pool tech with a networking background who understands what you're asking for...

The router is just that, a router with NAT and port forwarding. Most any consumer wireless router can do the job but Pentair did the work already so the homeowner doesn't have to know how to configure it to work with all the other routers out there.

Scott

Yes the problem is Pentair needs to publish their protocol for both the rs485 bus, and ethernet adapter used by screenlogic. Then we could write our own web server or anything else we want.

I believe someone on this board reverse engineered the rs485 protocol, and it was not trivial. To bad he didn't publish it for public consumption, but I understand there may be legal issues and it was probably a lot of work.

Depending on what kind of control you want, you might want to look at the iLink serial adapter Pentair sells, they do publish the ascii protocol for that, but has a limited set of features it supports.

Hmm. The Pentair Screenlogic remote program communicates with a Pentair remote access server which in turn talks to the Intellitouch. They don't need to put a browser in the router or in the panel, they could just offer a web service in place of the remote access server and not expose any protocols. It sure seems like this would have general appeal and would carry no greater risk than Screenlogic. Is there any way to start a dialog with Pentair?

My background includes development of computer networking and security products, so I have very in-depth understanding of the technology and risks involved.

I'm thankful that Pentair has cutting edge programs available for the market! I use them every day to better my business.

You don't see the competition with remote access over the Internet from any computer do you? They also don't have a remote control & monitoring program to monitor hundreds or even thousands of remote installations. And you sure as hell don't see anyone else with an iPod application to control their pool locally or remotely. So what if you have to install a program on your PC. It is a free download. So is the iPhone app.

Seems to me you guys are getting a little fussy.

Pentair is never going to open up their protocol to allow you weekend code warriors to write interfaces (even if you do work for Google). It's not going to happen. With all the focus on safety and with new IntelliFlo SVRS enabled pumps controlled by their control systems, do you think Pentair wants you monkeying with their protocols? I wouldn't think so.

landa_mac,

I am thankful Pentair is ahead of most of the pool automation industry.

They are however behind when compared to home automation products in general.

My HAI Omni panel which is a UL listed fire/burglary panel that does my home automation and security fully publishes their protocol for "monkeying" with. They know their panel is robust enough to take any monkeying I can throw at it and still function properly. This is not for weekend warriors, they publish these protocol so third parties can integrate properly and is demanded by the industry.

sperok,

I am pretty sure Screenlogic just uses the rs485 binary protocol that is made available on TCP/IP by the "serialbrick" created by Homelogic for for OEM by Pentair, what I don't know however is if it has been encrypted over tcp/ip in some way, or in the clear, there is no info on this whatsoever.

landa_mac - I really think jharrel has called this one correctly. While Pentair may be ahead of other pool vendors they are seriously behind the home automation industry.

The motivation behind my original post was to see if anyone has information on how to contact product management at Pentair regarding future product direction.

It does not make sense for any of us to do ad hoc protocol decoding or hack the Intellitouch when the obvious solution is a web service which leverages the existing pieces and which can provide appropriate security.

With respect to the iPhone and PC Apps, this implies that you have one or the other. My very tech-savvy, but level headed customers don't carry iPhones or laptops, they just get on the Internet wherever they are and use applications (e-mail, documents, spreadsheets, etc) that live in the Internet cloud. They don't really have anyplace (or any desire) to install any software.

We have automated their home (lights, HVAC, etc) but are not able to easily integrate the pool for the ONE THING they really want - to start up the spa remotely before making the 2 hour drive to the vacation home.

All, I think you are confusing the business that Pentair is in. They are in the pool and spa equipment business. They build pumps, filters, heaters, lights, cleaners, white goods, and control systems to make working the above much simpler for the pool owner.

They accomplish this by offering 3 tiers of control systems:

1. IntelliTouch is their high-end control system. This is what ScreenLogic works with.

2. EasyTouch is their mid-end control system. It is basically a scaled down version of IntelliTouch. Less circuits and feature capabilities.

3. Suntouch is their entry level control system. Basically a deluxe time clock that will communicate with their IntelliFlo pumps and control a couple of pieces of equipment.

Pentair's control systems are quite different than a home automation system. In home automation systems from Crestron, AMX, Control-4, HomeLogic, Lutron, HAI, etc, etc. you find features like home theater control, multi-zoned audio control, irrigation control, security system integration, HVAC control, video monitoring, interior/exterior lighting control, and very basic pool control capabilities.

Pentair has a product called the i-Link adapter (RS-485 to RS-232 adapter) which allows the above home automation companies to write interfaces on their home automation control screens to control the IntelliTouch pool control system.

If Pentair were interested in the home automation market, you would see them create a system like Crestron, AMX, etc.

But then they would have to change their name from Pentair Pool & Spa to something else now wouldn't they?

landa_mac - your posts on this forum are generally informative and well reasoned. I honestly have learned a lot from them. In this case I think you are missing my point.

Pentair has created a CLOSED, PROPRIETARY automation system for the pool which is DIFFICULT to interface with the rest of the systems in the home. On estates such as the one we are building, this prevents integrating for example, water and music systems in any meaningful way. Yes, you can buy or get for free products from Pentair which let you work from an iPhone or a proprietary panel or PDA, but you can't create a button to kick on the "1812 Overture", turn down the inside lights, start the waterfall and light the fire pit.

- Without a published protocol spec the RS-232 or RS-485 interfaces are problematic for integration.

- The Indoor Control Panel and the Screenlogic applications DO NOT SUPPORT any way to provide different levels of control for the "master" homeowner, wife & kids and guests or renters

- The iPhone Application and the ScreenLogic remote application user interfaces cannot be simplified for the homeowner that just wants a minimal amount of control (Spa On/Off).

The desires of homeowners are varied and all over the map. No one company or product is going to do everything. But, all of these objections could be overcome very simply by Pentair creating an open, web-based API which developers could integrate with. Pentair could maintain the safety and security of the system and would not need to be in the HA business at all. There are plenty of qualified people that can take on the custom work.

Sperok,

I doubt Pentair is going to publish their API as long as their controls integrate with safety related equipment such as an SVRS pump. The liability is too large.

Pentair makes available an i-Link adapter which will allow you to do many of the things you mentioned. Have you even looked at this? I posted a link to the i-Link user manual below.

It would seem to be a limitation of the home automation system if it could not have a one-button push macro programmed that would turn on music, turn down the inside lights, start the waterfall and light the fire pit (using the i-Link adapter interface). Oh, or do you not want to pay for this??? The i-Link gives home automation systems access to turn on/off every relay on an IntelliTouch system. It allows home automation systems to control:

1. All the relays
2. Pool pump
3. Spa pump
4. Heat modes (off, solar, solar preferred, heat pump, gas heater) and temperature set points and temp control for pool & spa
5. Cleaner functioning
6. Spillway control
7. Pool & Spa light control. You can set specific colors, sync all colored lights, and even cause them to create a "swimming" colors effect through the pool.

http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/i-LinkUG.pdf

Companies such as thecontrolworks.com make pre-made drivers for IntelliTouch for Crestron systems. I have used these with great success.

Here are some examples of home automation interfaces that have been done to control Pentair's IntelliTouch control system. The interfaces below were done for a Crestron home automation control system:

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However, I'm still partial to Pentair's ScreenLogic interface for IntelliTouch:

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thanks for the follow-up. We have already purchased the screenlogic and will now purchase the i-link.

This is potentially a dumb (or futile) question, but here goes...

At the time I purchased my equipment I felt that the Intellitouch was overkill for what I wanted and bought the EasyTouch 8. I had a conversation with a Pentair rep that informed me that the latest Easytouch firmware essentially made it look very close to an Intellitouch anyway.

Soooo.... this thread has peaked my interest and I would really like to utilize the wireless connection and Screenlogic program. Is there ANY WAY to make this work with the Easytouch panel or would I have to buy a new panel?

Currently ScreenLogic Connect (the PC program) is only configured to work with IntelliTouch systems. It will not connect to EasyTouch systems. However, there is a round about way to remotely access your EasyTouch system with the ScreenLogic interface. You have to use the Remote Control & Monitoring software. When you install this, it allows you to connect to your EasyTouch system using the ScreenLogic interface that is built into that remote monitoring program.

You would need PN 520838. This comes with the software, a protocol adapter, and wireless router (may use your existing router if so desire). But just realize that this remote monitoring software keys to the PC that you install it on and you can only install it on that PC. It's really meant more for service people and large property/hotel/condo owners that manage numerous pools.

I'm hoping Pentair decides to open up ScreenLogic to EasyTouch customers soon!

landa_mac,

are those screenshots from the latest update to their screenlogic software? I tried to update my protocol adapter (as they suggested in step 1) prior to getting the latest screenlogic software and it seemed to have hosed my adapter. The update was unsuccessful and now I have to send the Protocol adapter back to have them try to fix it. Did you have to update the adapter first before using the latest software? Also, my firmware is at 1.0 while I see 1.13 out there. Wish I could easily get that updated...anyone in the Boston area with the flash programmer?

Yet another area where Pentair is behind in home automation is firmware updates. How much is it to buy that flash programmer? I think I found it for $1200 somewhere, meanwhile my security/fire panel can be updated over ethernet.

If anyone is interested dBeau posted his deciphering of the rs485 protocol over at cocoontech, great thanks to him for doing what Pentair should have.