I have posted them here. You will get more comments if the layouts are posted in-line than if people have to go somewhere else to see them. BTW....this is the weekend and it can be slow around here over the weekend. If you don't get a lot of responses initially, bump the thread up to the first page Sunday evening.

Design 1 Floorplan:

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Design 2 Floorplan:

I like the second plan a lot better. The first one is cramped, and there's no way for more than one person to work in it. The more open plan is also more pleasant. You can customize the plan by incorporating a pull out work surface into the pantry, to create a sometimes there, sometimes gone peninsula, or you could make the base of the pantry on wheels, with a worktop, so that you could pull it out to be a small island. Or just use a folding teacart.

Are the walls immutable? Because the whole would function better, by putting more counterspace in the workpath, if you could swap the DW and sink. Prepping in a corner isn't fun if the legs on either side are both short. Putting the sink next to the window, however, would probably look dumb, so that would also mean moving the window.

I hope one of the geniuses stops by (maybe Buehl will come back with some alternates). I can't think of a different way to do things, but sometimes standing the design on its head gives a great solution.

I will leave the kitchen layout to the geniuses, but just wanted to see if you had considered an L-shaped banquette. It is a really tight space and it seems like that might be a good solution.

prefer design 1, but of the 3 windows-I'd look into bigger openings for dinette and above sink, and think of eliminating the 3rd window along the far wall. Each is so small,that you are not gaining the normal daylight illumination that this medium sized kitchen should have.

I like the first except for the fixed peninsula, I would reconsider that somehow.

I feel like the refrigerator looms over the dining area in the second.

I agree with Palimpsest about the refigerator "looming".

I like version one but agree that you need a pantry so I would sacrifice counter space for pantry by moving the refrigerator to the left closer to the sink counter and putting a pantry where the fridge is now in version one. You could have a wider fridge at 36. And also a better sized pantry could be 30 inches wide (If I'm reading numbers right). The biggest "con" to this approach would be that the corner to the right of the sink (and left of new location for the fridge) beccomes dysfunctional.

If it were my kitchen, I think I would be willing to sacrifice the corner for a larger fridge and pantry. But as you know, I'm sure, each to his own. And maybe someone who is not such a newbie as I am could figure out a way to make that corner less dysfunctional.

Another suggestion but you lose counter space would be to make your kitchen a galley kitchen (sort of) by moving the sink to the penninsula and eliminate the counter beneath the window (put a pretty curtain there and/or small cart on wheels beneath the window - make the sink a corner sink that fills in the inside edge of the penninsula and angles toward the adjacent counter where stove is located. And put the stove centered on remaining counter where it is now (taking into consideration the space by the corner sink). Looks like this might still leave 24 inches on either side of the stove. If you kept the 24 inch wide pantry, looks like you could have a 33 inch wide counter between pantry and fridge and fridge could be expanded to 36 inches.

A few questions....

• Are all three walls exterior walls?

• It looks like you will be changing windows...is that correct? Can they go anywhere along the "top" and/or "left" walls?

• What else are you willing to change?

• Are you willing to consider a banquette in the lower left corner?

I agree with Palimpsest about the refigerator "looming".

I like version one but agree that you need a pantry so I would sacrifice counter space for pantry by moving the refrigerator to the left closer to the sink counter and putting a pantry where the fridge is now in version one. You could have a wider fridge at 36. And also a better sized pantry could be 30 inches wide (If I'm reading numbers right). The biggest "con" to this approach would be that the corner to the right of the sink (and left of new location for the fridge) beccomes dysfunctional.

If it were my kitchen, I think I would be willing to sacrifice the corner for a larger fridge and pantry. But as you know, I'm sure, each to his own. And maybe someone who is not such a newbie as I am could figure out a way to make that corner less dysfunctional.

Another suggestion but you lose counter space would be to make your kitchen a galley kitchen (sort of) by moving the sink to the penninsula and eliminate the counter beneath the window (put a pretty curtain there and/or small cart on wheels beneath the window - make the sink a corner sink that fills in the inside edge of the penninsula and angles toward the adjacent counter where stove is located. And put the stove centered on remaining counter where it is now (taking into consideration the space by the corner sink). Looks like this might still leave 24 inches on either side of the stove. If you kept the 24 inch wide pantry, looks like you could have a 33 inch wide counter between pantry and fridge and fridge could be expanded to 36 inches.

I like option #2. My previous kitchen looked like option #1 and I disliked that it was hard for two people to be in the kitchen at the same time and that the counterspace felt cramped.

If you really want to keep a table in the kitchn, I agree that you should consider an l-shaped banquette. This would free up a lot more space in your kitchen and make everything integrated. You could also make the banquette into storage which might be really helpful in a small space.

I also think your option #2 layout can be improved by keeping the refrigerator and pantry together. If you're sitting at the table, the room will feel more open without the tall refrigerator blocking the sight lines.

Will your budget allow you to close up or move a window? If so, then have you considered a lay-out like this:

To do this, you'll need to shift the window on the right hand wall over to be centered between fridge and pantry. Pantry opens towards the fridge now and is bordered on its left by more counter and upper cabs that face the range. This gives you a landing zone for pantry items. You could also make this a snack zone, out of the cook/prep zone.

I created an L banquette as suggested above with a 42" round table. The bench is long enough so that diners can slide in with ease (especially important on the range wall side). That's also why I made the 18" cab between range area and bench only 12" deep. If it was full depth, you'd have less than 24" to go between chair and counter, which often leads to bruised hips (at least it would for me).

The shallow counter/cabinets could be used for cereal storage, toaster, bread, etc - breakfast items.

The 6" between wall and CD fridge is a narrow pull-out cab that can be used for a broom cabinet or more pantry goods. This narrow cab will allow your fridge door to open more fully so that you have room to slide out your fridge drawers.

The (27) notation between range and corner designates cabinet size. You'll need a spacer between corner and cabinet so that you can open drawers without banging into cab pulls, drawer or door fronts, etc.

This isn't a finalized plan but hopefully it gives you more ideas. I can see one tweak you'll need. I forgot to give you a cab spacer between fridge and DW to support the counter. That will measure 1"-2".

Three layouts options...

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I've got a wicked case of insomnia in the middle of the night so with nothing better to do, I'm playing with your plan. Here's a slight variation on my above suggestion.

I moved the fridge out of the corner, which means the window can stay as is, saving you money. Landing space for fridge items is on the sink run, 42" at the closest point away, which is within NKBA recommendations (they suggest landing zones within 48"), but at the farthest point, it is beyond that rec.

I forgot to add a couple things in my previous post. I'm assuming 1.5" counter overhang (you don't show this in your plans, you give dimensions as between cab and cab, which would be 3" less between counter to counter). The table overhangs the bench by 4". In Plan A, a 39" fridge cab assumes frameless construction for a 36" wide fridge. In Plan B, I've allowed for a 40" face-frame cab. Also, in Plan B, I allowed for an overlay, not inset door, to the pantry, which adds about 1" to the depth of a cab.

I've re-read your post and reviewed your photos/drawings at your link but I can't figure out how Buehl determined that you are changing windows. They look like they are in the same location in your plans as they are now so I'm assuming that you aren't wanting to or can't afford to make structural changes. If you can, however, that opens up more options, as Buehl has suggested (nice plans, Buehl). I have another idea but I feel the Sandman returning (finally! I hate insomnia).

I think I got the impression from some of the designs, but now that I'm more wide-awake (I was very tired last night!) and have looked closer, I think it's just the layout that's been moved around the windows - different versions with the same windows, just different views/orientations.

Personally, I would really like to change those windows - not just for layout's sake, but for aesthetics as well. They look like they were added as an after-thought and look cramped. However, if you cannot change the windows, then other layouts may have to be worked up...I'll be back later!

Here is Layout #4...a slight reworking of Layout #3 with the windows in their original locations.

It has deeper counters (3" deeper) in part to pull the sink out from the wall but mostly to give you more workspace b/w the sink and range. You'd be surprised how much those 3" add! You can either get deeper base cabinets (27" deep) or, if they are not in your budget or your cabinet line does not offer them, you could pull the base cabinets out from the wall 3".

Note the upper cabinets are 15" deep instead of 12"...extra storage.

In addition, there is a 10" deep plate rack over the sink - see the link below for some pics. I thought it would add interest, if you like it.

Note that you have a snack and/or coffee center on the right wall. There's room for the MW and a coffeepot...assuming you drink coffee (I don't, but it seems most people here do and like the idea of a coffee center.)

Here is a link that might be useful: [Examples of plate racks over sinkx (on Houzz.com)[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/13-ways-to-add-a-plate-rack-to-your-kitchen-stsetivw-vs~352628)

One thing I forgot to mention about all the above layouts I did...the range and Cooking Zone are protected from traffic. Traffic is directed away from the range & Cooking Zone b/c of the flow through the kitchen.

In Layouts #3 & #4, to go to/from the table or refrigerator, a person will cut diagonally across - away from the range.

In Layouts #1 & #2, the range is inside the "U" and out of the general traffic flow. The range and refrigerator are bit close, but I think it will be OK most of the time. The MW, though, is in a bit of a "black hole".

GFT786, are you out there or are you one of the post-and-dash-never-to-be-seen again types?

Thank you for all of your opinions. Buehl, I love the idea about getting deeper cabinets, if I go with the U-shaped design I believe that would be ideal, if I go with the design with the peninsula, it would only make the space smaller. I like the idea of a banquette, however, I'm not sold on having such a permanent piece as a kitchen table.

Also, I do like the idea posted for an L shaped kitchen, mainly along the long wall, however, that wall looks directly into the home of a neighbor across the way and would really like to keep things along the back wall which overlooks my yard.

For some reason, I am still stuck on having the peninsula. I was thinking of making the peninsula have a twelve inch overhang to allow for two stools on the other side. This would only allow for a two person bistro table, however, there is a large dining room right off the kitchen where people could eat when having guests. I am curious though as to how people feel about this option of having only a small table in the kitchen instead of a larger 4 person table (even though there is also a dining room.)

Because of cost and time constraints, I have decided to just enlarge the window opening above the sink as well as the window next to the fridge (making it less wide as well to accommodate a 36" inch fridge).

I did come up with one other design that is basically the U shape design (design 2) but I have swapped the fridge and pantry and I incorporated a bar on the short wall. That wall would have a 12-15 inch slab of granite that would be bar stool height. This could accomodate up to 3 people or other odds and ends.

After thinking over ideas from your posts and making slight changes, I guess what I'm looking for is a vote on which design people like better because I'm pretty much set on either of those two designs.

Design 1- The only thing I changed in the picture is the enlarged window. Lowe's designer will not allow me to add an overhang with bar stools, so you'll have to use your imagination.

The below picture shows the layout of what I described above. I also inserted people, with 3 foot radius circle around each, to show the space.

In the picture below-- please imagine an overhang with bar stools and only a two person bistro.

Modified Design 2-Because I am using Lowe's designer, you have to imagine that the counter height table is a slab of granite with bar stools underneath.

Bumping to the top for a few more opinions on the changes. I spent all afternoon combing through the forum for inspiration. You all have some great ideas!