Breezy, the house was built in '82, I wonder if popcorn from that era would still contain asbestos? Ha, hard on the neck and back, that's what I thought.

blfenton, it makes perfect sense. We tend to notice stuff we don't like more than stuff we do like, I think. We have a fan in the kitchen (original owners) I've hated since we moved in almost 10 years ago. I notice it every time I walk into the kitchen and will be so glad to be rid of it.

Ours was built in '71. I'm not sure about your era. Do a little googling or ask a drywaller. Break the area to be scraped up over a couple of days. It'll be worth it. Except then you'll want to do it in the rest of your house then! ;). Our ceilings are low at 91.5" and adding more drywall would have made it worse.

Get rid of it!!

No question about it. Just removing popcorn makes any room look remodeled :) and new again...

I scraped the popcorn off in kitchen and FR and a couple bedrooms, but drywall guy did the rest (mostly because of cathedral ceilings). He then spray coated it with a very light layer of drywall stuff (sorry, don't know exactly what it was). Then prime & paint. The best and easiest way to make your home look 100x better!

flwrs, did it need to be coated because the ceiling surface was uneven after the popcorn removal? Ugh, we have popcorn cathedral ceilings in the living room, for that job, we'll definitely have to hire someone.

Breezy, I googled it and popcorn containing asbestos was used as late as '86, though asbestos products were banned in '78. But existing products were excempt. So, we are going to have it tested before we attempt to do any removal.

Pharaoh, it does look nicer. I just hope it's safe to remove, cause I just read paying someone to remove it if it has asbestos costs $3.000 - $5.000 per room, yikes.

Do you feel like taking a low risk? If so, go ahead and do it yourself. Wear a respirator. Open the windows. We felt it was worth the risk.

Taking the popcorn off removes the drywall texture so you're down to almost bare drywall after that. Plus, DH made a few gashes in a few rooms when he got tired. You really need some to put something up over that drywall before you paint. It really doesn't need to be much, if any, texture. We had our guy do his own special texturing technique to add a bit of interest to our very boring house.

It will take a small amount of money for the drywall fix after you scrape, but it would be a shame to spend 20K, 30K, whatever on a new kitchen and have those horrible ceilings ruining the look. I think you'll regret it.

For what it's worth. It pays to shop around and get several estimates when it comes to selecting a testing lab and asbestos abatement contractor.

Not sure if this is true all over the country, but I found lab testing prices varied by a large amount in the western Washington area. I received estimates from as high as $200 for same day turnaround down to $20 should I be willing to wait 3-5 days for the test results.

Ditto for popcorn removal... I had approximately 530 sq. ft. of just under 8' ceiling to remove, and the quotes ranged from a low of $1300 to a high of $5500 for permits, prep, removal, air monitoring, clean-up, and waste disposal. All work was completed in one long day.

Good luck on your project... hopefully this will help.

Best reason to get rid of the popcorn? Dirt, dust, grease and grime! It isn't like you can wash it or vaccuum it to keep it clean. When I took down our popcorn ceiling I was shocked to see how filthy it was from 34 years of previous owners. Best thing we ever did in this remodel!

what is the question? of COURSE you should get rid of it!
and what imbecile ever came up with the concept of a "popcorn" ceiling anyway?

Have any of you removed popcorn after it was painted? My parents always just painted their popcorn to refresh it...it never occurred to them (even in a recent kitchen remodel) to remove it. So, that's what I did in my living room & bathroom because it seemed like the easiest route. However, lately I've read a few accounts of how easy the popcorn removal was, and I'm feeling sick about painting it.

Is removal still an option, or should I just enjoy the freshened paint and put it out of my mind?

Breezy, hubby wants to do it ourselves even if it does come back positive for asbestos. I am still pondering cause I'm a big chicken. :o)
Pell, we have popcorn ceilings in every room. 1600 sq. ft. with one cathedral ceiling. But according to the phonebook, only one licensed contractor in the area. We live in the boondocks.
Kellied, our popcorn is okay in most rooms, but it is disgusting in the kitchen. Grease, grime and yucky.
Kates, I read a shoddy contractor came up with popcorn in order to hide the ugly ceilings he constructed. Don't know if it's true, but I it does sound like a lazy way to cover imperfections.

Jessicami, painting is the recommended way of sealing popcorn ceilings if the ceiling does contain absbestos, so don't feel sick about painting it.

We had ours removed during our remodeling process. It's a fairly easy though messy process. It gets sprayed with water, the water is given time to soak in, and then it gets scraped off. You then get to the bare or mostly bare drywall that then needs to be textured. Afterwards primed and painted.

Because asbestos is only danger in particulates, the wetting it down prevents it from getting airborne. We didn't have any dust at all during the removal.

My neighbor's DH removed theirs, we had our GC do it. It makes a HUGE difference in the appearance of your house. Go for it.

I was lucky enough to be able to remove our popcorn ceiling without effort, water or dust. I figure someone istalled it cheaply because i barely touched a loose area where a leak had been and whole sheets of it fell down. YES!! Getting rid of the rest of it was easy after that.

I (unfortunately) have popcorn ceilings throughout my home. When we purchased the house, we were assured by the POs that the popcorn was not asbestos. We had it tested and it is. Please take the time to have it tested so you know what you are up against. It is very cheap and easy ($20 maybe?). You simply find a lab in your area and follow their directions. For me, it was a matter of spraying a tiny area with water and scraping into a ziplock bag and taking it into the lab.

If it turns out to be asbestos, your local laws will tell you whether it's legal for you to remove it or if you must use a licensed contractor. You should also be able to find instructions on removal. The process is not difficult, but it is not fun. From our local laws, homeowners may remove the popcorn by sealing the area completely (plastic taped to walls and floors - completely sealing everything but the ceiling) and wearing proper respiration and clothes that you do not mind throwing away and properly (legally) disposing of the waste. (Must use a respirator rated for asbestos, not a silly useless dust mask.) If it has not been painted, you can essentially wet and scrape. You must also properly dispose of the waste as it is hazardous. Do not just put it into your garbage can. You must also dispose of the respirator filter, plastic, and your clothing in the same manner.

If you are not interested in this work, there is another alternative: encapsulation. You can cover the existing ceiling with 1/4" sheetrock. This means no scraping, no disposal. And you're likely to end up with a smoother surface. (Sometimes scraping leaves you with a rough surface and poor joints in the sheetrock that requires you to do a skim coat or low texture.) We are planning to do this in our home. The quotes for scraping by a licensed contractor were $2.50-$3.00/sqft which really adds up when you're talking about the whole house. While we could scrape ourselves, we choose not to take the health risk.

I am in the process of changing out a very small (4' x 6') room into a pantry. I removed the sheetrock that had popcorn on it. It was a tiny room and the work was fairly unpleasant. Sealing off the room with plastic and covering myself head to toe combined with spraying the ceiling with water (to reduce air-born particles - the thing you are trying to avoid) was very hot sweaty unpleasant work. It's certainly doable, but it definitely is not fun.

Petra, scraping takes it down to the wallboard. I did have a few minor gouges in it, but it still would have had to be coated before painting. Also, I should mention that asbestos wasn't an issue since our house was built about 1990.

I also want to warn you that one company tried to hussle me over the popcorn removal. Told me I had ruined my kitchen ceiling and part of the FR that I had scraped. In order to fix that and remove the rest throughout the house, they said it would take a team of 4 to 5 people 2 to 3 weeks to remove and repair. They wanted close to $5K but that included painting. In the end I think I paid the drywall guy about $750 and the painters $2000. This was about 8 years ago.

Trailgirl, we might not do the entire house, but the kitchen and dining room are definite, whether we do it ourselves or hire someone.

Kellied, that almost sounds too easy. :o)

Prickly, we are definitely having it tested. Lowe's sells a testing kit where you mail in several samples and they mail the results back. Total cost around $40, so quite cheap. Did you hire someone to remove it or did you have sheetrock installed over some of it?

flwrs, what sort of coat did it take to make the ceiling look good after the removal? Thanks much for the contractor tip, if it's non-asbestos and we pay someone to remove it, we'll get several estimates. I am kinda angry about the possibility of asbestos, since it was banned in '78, I can't believe they actually allowed contractors to use up existing supplies. There ought to be someone to sue, ha.

Aside from the asbestos issue, removing this is one of the easiest things I've ever done. What does not scrape off can be washed off afterwards. Had to in our first house.

My problem was the original builders did a very sloppy job taping the ceiling because they knew it would be sprayed, so once scrapped down, we had to do a lot of mudding work to level out the seams. But they never primed either so that made it easier as we could sand the mud already in place.

In our current house, I have very lightly textured ceilings and they are all less than five years old. I love the look, but I can't stand textured walls!

Now it seems everyone wants flat ceilings and bumpy walls.

Macy, no way to bumpy walls. They'll probably be out of style too in 10, 20 years. :o)

You know, our last house had ceiling tiles that had plenty of water damage, couldn't be matched and the question of asbestos (fortunately they weren't). We did have 1/4" sheetrock put over it. What an easy fix to a major headache. They just used longer screws to install it and we didn't have to deal with loads of hassle and the finish work was ready for paint.

Back in the day because popcorn texture was going to be used , the drywall crews didn't have to be careful with the finish work because it was getting covered up, which we have found to be true in this house. Some pretty sloppy work under the drywall.

I vote for covering it with sheetrock.

We also have popcorn ceilings throughout the house and I've thought about removing them--thanks Petra for asking about ease of diy removal!

As a related question, for those who removed the popcorn and now have smooth drywall ceilings, is it noisier? I keep telling myself, as small comfort, that at least the popcorn is an acoustic absorber. Am I deluding myself into seeing *any* benefit of popcorn???? :\

signed,
2200sqft of popcorn

Funny. I think you're deluding yourself. We took out all of our popcorn ceiling (oh and the acoustic tile ceiling in our rec room and office - now there is a nice look ) last summer and I don;t find it noisier. Nicer looking - oh you bet.
We had all ours just gyprocked over (as mentioned) instead of spray and scrape. The ceilings are lighter in looks and actually appear to be higher although they aren't.
The popcorn ceilings also sap light out of a room because the light gets absorb into the little crevices whereas a smooth light ceiling bounces light back into the room better.

Kellied & blfenton, since you've both had it done I hope you don't mind my asking if it was very expensive to sheetrock over? We already have to install a new tile floor which we hadn't counted on in our budget, so cost is definitely a consideration.

mtnfever, it's good to know it's fairly easy to remove, isn't it?!. Wow, 2200 sq. ft. In our previous house, when we finished the basement, the contractor talked us into having popcorn sprayed on the ceiling to match the rest of the house, and we went for it without a though. Of course, this was back in '95 when it hadn't fallen out of favor yet. I never liked the look of it, but it was almost expected as it was in most houses.

Sorry, we haven't yet done the rest of the house, just the small 4x6 room. We do most everything DIY, so the idea of paying a lot of money to have someone scrape (while we have to move everything out of the house) has not been very tempting. When we (eventually) renovate the kitchen, we're considering doing the ceilings throughout the house. Right now we're leaning towards 1/4" drywall encapsulation because then we can have smooth ceilings and do not have to worry about exposing ourselves to asbestos. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that your test shows no asbestos.

Prickly, thanks for the finger crossing, I hope so too. It would be scary to think we've lived with asbestos for almost 10 years. Of course, the ceilings are in good shape, so hopefully even if, there was no exposure.

It really wasn't as expensive as it could have been because of usiong the 1/4" sheetrock.

Call a drywall contractor in and have him bid it out for you. Just remember that there will be dust with this method as well. If you get someone who is really good at smooth textures you won't have to apply a texture at all. We did go for orange peel as it was a very old home with lots of not perfect framing.

As I remember, it was just a coat that the drywaller sprayed on to match the smooth ceiling in the working part of the kitchen. Popcorn was in kitchen eating area, FR, DR, LR, hall, and bedrooms, and study. Laundry, bathrooms, closets, and kitchen work area were orange peel (I think that's what's it called). Ours didn't require any retaping or other repair work.

When we were finalizing the options on our house, I told the builder's rep I didn't want the popcorn. She said, "Of course you do--you have 3 boys! The popcorn will help to absorb the noise." DH fell for her line of crap and I caved in to him. So, so stupid!!! I'm very lucky that ours didn't have asbestos since I didn't know the danger. I simply got fed up with it one day, grabbed a spray bottle and scraper and started removing it. DH was mighty surprised when he got home from work that day!

I don't know how much it was for us as it was part of a whole house reno. We weren't going to DIY it regardless but our GC said it was cheaper to just sheetrock the whole house rather than spend the labour hours on the spray/scrape method. You also get a much nicer finish. It never hurts, like kellied said, to get a quote to have it drywalled.

Yes, I think the sheetrock sounds like a better option. Am going to find some drywallers and get a few estimates. If we only do the kitchen/dining area, it shouldn't be too bad. Can't putz around too long cause the new cabinets should be installed within a month, and we also have to coordinate to have the floor laid as soon as the old cabs are out and before the new ones are installed. For the bedrooms and offices and hallway, we'll test the ceilings and then get to scraping if the popcorn is non-asbestos. Still pondering what to do about the cathedral ceiling living room, ugh.

**hubby wants to do it ourselves even if it does come back positive for asbestos. I am still pondering cause I'm a big chicken.**

You're not a big chicken. My father is a residential contractor and he has said, "There's not enough money in New York City to get me to take down a popcorn ceiling myself." (He meant an asbestos-containing one, of course.) Asbestos causes serious lung diseases, including mesothelioma, a type of cancer for which there is no cure--unless you would call it a "cure" if you got intensive radiation therapy or chemo, combined with having permanent incisions and tubes in your torso to drain fluids from your chest, and that treatment bought you an extra couple of miserable years.

You should get the ceiling tested, number one. If it doesn't contain asbestos, rip it out yourselves, no problem (but wear dust masks and glasses, and cover the doors with plastic sheeting to minimize the dust that gets in the rest of the house).

If it does contain asbestos, and your DH nevertheless continues to insist that you do it yourselves, then--if you're willing to go along with that idea--educate yourself about what it is that certified asbestos removers do. You can do that yourselves. With the equipment you have to rent and the materials you have to buy it's not cheap (though it is probably a good deal cheaper than hiring a certified crew), and it's a major hassle, but it's much less of a hassle than getting or having your child get mesothelioma or any of the numerous other horrible diseases asbestos can cause. There's a very good reason the stuff was banned worldwide: it causes hideous diseases that nobody should ever have to get.

When you look up what asbestos removers do, you'll see things like this: they cover themselves from head to toe in protective clothing (and later throw away everything they're wearing); they wear respirators with external air intake (i.e. a tube out the window so what they're breathing is not air from the room being treated); they completely block off the room being treated, and they have a little machine that slightly depressurizes the room so that air in the room will not try to flow out to other rooms. That keeps asbestos in the air from flowing into other rooms, where it would settle on everything and become part of your household dust, being breathed in by your family members every day. Then at the end of the project they wipe down every surface with wet rags and immediately put the rags in trash bags and seal them up. Etc. This is just an overview--you can find many more details online.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's illegal in some places to take out asbestos yourself. So that would be something to check, and an argument to present to your DH if you're trying to dissuade him from his plans.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mesothelioma link

Adding emphasis to ideagirl2's great post, dealing with asbestos should be taken very seriously.

Not only are thousands of workers who were exposed to asbestos dying of Mesothelioma, their families are also because of asbestos brought home on clothing and shoes. If that minimal exposure causes such harm to a second generation some 40 years after exposure, imagine your future if this is asbestos and you didn't dispose of it properly.

My FIL died of Mesothelioma and it's not pretty. You don't want to worry for the next 40 years that you exposed yourself or your family and friends to such a terrible disease that can be prevented.

Steff, I'm so sorry about your FIL.

Here's another mesothelioma death, this one caused by breaking asbestos panels in a ceiling (see link). Does anyone here remember the British punk band the Sex Pistols? Their manager, Malcolm McLaren, also ran a clothing store he called Sex in London in the 1970s. He died of mesothelioma last year at age 64, less than two years after doctors first noticed spots on his lungs. Quote from the British newspaper article:

"McLaren, who died last week, aged 64, of the asbestos-related cancer mesothelioma, is believed to have been exposed to the deadly material when he shattered the ceiling of Sex, the shop he shared with his then partner, designer Vivienne Westwood..... [His widow said] "When Malcolm created Sex he broke open the ceiling to make it look like a bomb had hit it.... Then Ben Westwood said his mother had mentioned that she'd seen asbestos there. It was board asbestos and it was in the early Seventies so there was a lot of it left, and I don't think anyone really did anything about it."

Breaking those ceiling panels, and then spending his workdays in that shop for the next few years, was McLaren's only known exposure to asbestos. 35 or so years later he was dead of a rather hideous cancer. Even being rich and having access to his choice of doctors worldwide (he went to Switzerland for treatment, among other places), wasn't enough to save him.

And, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, HIS ONLY KNOWN EXPOSURE to asbestos was from BREAKING HIS CEILING TILES.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mesothelioma death from asbestos ceiling panels

Ideagirl & Steff, many thanks for the warnings, it sounds like something to be avoided at all cost. But we discussed this further last night, and like I posted above, we are going to have everything tested and if it should come back positive, have 1/4 inch drywall (sheetrock?) installed over it in the kitchen and dining room, and then have the rest removed when we can afford it as I've read it's only dangerous when disturbed. If it comes back as safe, then we'll tackle it ourselves.

By the way, I read that everyone with popcorn ceilings should have them tested prior to removal. On the website I posted below, a contractor stated he has found "hot" popcorn ceilings in houses built as recently as the early 90's.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lots of popcorn ceiling info

Glad to hear you're convinced that the alarm over this issue is real. I do think that disturbing it is the problem because we had asbestos in so many things when I was growing up and the problems seem to be mostly with those who worked with it and/or were exposed to loose fibers in the air.

Thanks ideagirl, if my story helps one person then it's worth revealing something so personal.

I keep telling myself, as small comfort, that at least the popcorn is an acoustic absorber.

No, it isn't. As my geek-engineer roomie explains, the depth of the pits in the popcorn aren't deep enough to absorb or reflect sound waves - it's no better than flat plaster. And without sound-absorbing building techniques, the best you can do is reduce bounce and echo, which reduces the higher frequencies.

What really helps is soft surfaces such as a rug hanging a couple inches away from a wall (sound bounces behind it and gets lost), or irregular deep openings such as a bookcase with books in it (sound checks in, can't check out), draperies, upholstered furniture, and area rugs.

Wow, Petra, it's scary that asbestos was in popcorn ceilings that late. That's awful.

Steff, I think personal stories like yours are just about the only thing that will help--somehow personal stories really resonate in a way that statistics and such don't.

Steff, meant to post in my earlier reply, I too am very sorry about your FIL. And I agree with Ideagirl, it's easier to relate to personal stories. I am sorry you had to experience this personally though.

Ideagirl, I was very surprised to read that, but then, many companies are more interested in making a buck than in safety or doing the right thing.

Forgot to mention, many thanks to Breezy for bringing up the asbestos issue. Since we both knew asbestos products were banned in the late 70's, it would have never occurred to us that a house built in '82 or later might still contain it. I am spreading the word to friends who are planning remodels as well.

oh well, thank you lazygardens, for the info that popcorn doesn't help acoustically at all. another delusion bites the dust...

after reading that asbestos might still be in homes (like ours) built in the early 80s, just covering it sounds like a good route!

for petra who's thinking about it, and those who already have covered instead of removed their popcorn, did you (or your contractor) take down and put back up all your crown moulding? Seems like that would be alot of additional labor but likely DIY.

thank you petra for starting this thread!

mtnfever, we don't have any crown moulding in the kitchen/dining room. We do have a bunch in the living room, but it's on the top of the wall before the cathedral ceiling slope, so it probably wouldn't have to be removed.

I was shocked that asbestos was still used years after it was banned and I just don't understand why there was an exemption for existing materials.

I found out today that some vinyl tiles and vinyl sheet flooring which was used up through the 80's contained asbestos as well. It is advised to test prior to flooring renovation and, if positive for asbestos, to not remove the flooring and just have new flooring installed on top without disturbing it. In our case, it looks like our old kitchen/dining room tiles (which we really need to remove because they were laid around the existing custom cabinets and the new cabinets are shorter and more narrow) were already installed over vinyl. The floor under the dishwasher was not tiled and we can see the linoleum under there.

So, something else to test and worry about. If it does turn up positive for asbestos, we will have to keep the old tile and just patch around the cabinets which will look crappy. It is really discouraging to have all these potential issues pop up, all I want is a nice new kitchen.

We just finished installing 1/4" sheetrock over our popcorn ceiling, like others, in all rooms except bedrooms. The ceiling actually does look higher.
One thing that helped and one thing we did wrong. We made the contractor use a vaccuum sander so it wasn't quite as messy. Using a contractor, the sheetrock guys were in/out in 3 days. However, we did not have good filters in our air conditioning so the dust got in and froze up the coils. Make sure to have a heavy duty filter before doing this.

ps: 1st post but found out about this forum 2 months ago when we started renovations and love it!

Thanks for sharing the tips, cpr0605.

cpr0605, thanks for the tips!! Hope you don't mind a couple questions. :o) How many rooms did they do in 3 days? And was sheet-rocking less expensive than popcorn removal?

I do want to thank those who expressed their sympathy earlier in the thread, you are so sweet. My FIL was 79 when diagnosed and lived only about six months with the effects so it went better for him than most. During this experience we did most of the research for the family and learned so much about asbestos and mesothelioma. I'm truly glad to have the opportunity to share it when need arises.

When you're watching late night movies with all the lawyer ads you never really think that one day you'll be the one paying attention.

Please don't let this divert the thread, I just wanted to acknowledge those I missed earlier.

You're welcome, Steff. I'm glad your FIL at least had a reasonably long life and didn't spend years suffering at the end.

Petra, sheet rocking is guaranteed to be less expensive than popcorn removal if the popcorn contains asbestos. If it doesn't contain asbestos, popcorn removal can be basically free (apart from the cost of the asbestos test) because you can do it yourself without any fancy equipment. So it depends.

CPR0605, it's interesting that the ceilings look higher now that you've sheetrocked over the popcorn. I wonder if that could be because all the nooks and crannies in the popcorn create shadows that make it look darker than it really is, so it looks lower?

I didn't check the price of the popcorn removal as we didn't want to deal with that mess. I should also probably clarify the 3 days installation as this didn't include the actual priming/paint as our contractor did that. Seems like they installed and taped the 1st day, mudded the 2nd and sanded the 3rd. With 3 guys they were in/out quick each day and didn't have to come back for any touch-ups. We did about 1600 sq ft.

Ideagirl, I know, if it turns out we have benign popcorn, we are going to scrape the heck out of it ourselves. :o)

cpr0605, ours would be about 1600 sq ft, so thanks for the time estimate. Doesn't seem too bad for that much ceiling space.

Steff, you're not derailing at all, I am so glad you posted. Since you did lots of research, at what point is exposure worrisome? For example, if someone scraped popcorn ceilings off one small room, would they be likely to eventually come down with Mesot. or does it take more exposure than that? I discussed this with a friend of mine who (together with her husband) used to buy old houses, renovate, and re-sell. They did lots of popcorn ceilings, flooring, etc., and never tested prior. She is very, very nervous.

It's really tough to say how much asbestos it takes since some are exposed for a short time and get mesothelioma very quickly and at a young age. Others like my FIL are exposed daily at work for 40 years or more and don't get it until 50 years after first exposure. They do know that significant direct exposure over a long period of time makes it nearly certain. Many people have had some limited exposure without getting the disease. There are some factors like smoking that seem to hasten the onset of the disease.

Hopefully your friends weren't exposed that much over too long a time. In your friend's situation and since they are so concerned I would recommend testing to see if they have had asbestos exposure.

It's possible that there's nothing to worry about.

Steff, thanks so much for the info. They are not sure if anything contained asbestos, but since many of the houses were 60's and 70's construction with popcorn throughout, it's probably likely. They renovated over many months and lived in the houses during renovation, plus he smokes, so I will definitely relay your info re. testing. But hopefully, they'll be okay.

petra, have my fingers crossed for your benign popcorn ceiling especially since you now have the vinyl floor tile to worry about too--being "attacked" from above *and* below is too much!! :o

mtnfever, thanks for the finger crossing, I hope it works, :o)

The floor issue would be fairly easy to solve by just patching the existing tile, and save us money too because then we couldn't replace it anyway.

But once we resigned ourselves to having the old tile replaced I was really looking forward to a beautiful new floor along with the new kitchen and I really don't want the patched look. But we'll see, maybe the floor is asbestos free and all this fretting is for nothing.