That's a shame Judith. At least he's trying to fix it. However, sounds like there's more than one problem here.

We had the very same problem many years ago in our old (1916) house. After numerous conversation with both the GC, the guy who laid the tile, and the supplier of the tile and product, everyone pointed a finger at the "other guy". No one would take responsibility. One of them even blamed me because "don't you know old houses move"! We never could pin down what the real problem was. Probably as in your case it was multiple errors. In the end we ripped it all out, and had wood floor put down. It was cheaper to do that than take them to court and fight it. Our legal system is so expensive, the little guy usually gets burned.

The contractor should have placed a cement board or any type of backer board over the plywood flooring, screwing it into place -- than using a self-lever if needed prior to tiling. Your GC, should pay because it was his error.

there are more things to know than the few tips you have read here so far. Joists hold the subfloor, and sooner or later someone will ask about their size and spacing and length (span). Then, the plywood: sooner or later someone will ask about this. Then, the CBU (cement board) and *how* it was installed. In the end it's numbskull easy when you know where to go read the right things, and you do this. Later, if you remember what you have read you can talk with the GC. Intelligibly. Your GC can go sign in on sites restricted to GC's only, and he can read a lot too. Solutions are available. They are all based on knowledge applied in the right places.

A kitchen forum is not the place to expound on the technicalities of subfloor rigidity and tile adhesion, and I'm not prone to pretending I know more than those guys who normally write it all out, in other forums. So this ends my post.

Our contractor put CBU over existing plywood floor then went to the basement and glued the seams of the plywood to the floor joists. So far after one year it has held up well...
No squeaks , no cracks ...

The contractor was paid to do a professional installation. If his poor installation caused the floor to fail, he needs to replace it all, on his dime. You paid for materials once already and paid for installation. You should therefore have a well laid floor. If anything, he owes you even more than materials and installation for the trouble his initial installation has caused. Even if he re-does it all, you will have dealt with the extra mess and extra headaches. The least I would accept is materials, removal of the current floor and new installation.

When you say that he used a self leveler, do you mean a mortar bed of at least 1 1/4" thickness over felt paper and using a wire mesh? If they just poured some mortar over a single layer of plywood, well... there's your problem.

The important think is the amount of flex in the floor. It has to be minimal or you'll get cracks and tiles coming loose. You can educate yourself by digging around on the tile council of north america's website, but its your contractor's responsibility to know what he's doing.

There's no way you should be paying for materials. You paid him to do the job correctly and its his responsibility to fix it... on his dime.

If you want some answers from professionals, try johnbridge.com.

Good luck!

Hi everyone, I've been away for a few days and am just now checking in. Robj, the contractor didn't do the extensive prep you describe. He just poured the self-leveler on the subfloor and let it dry for a few days before installing my tile. The tiles and grout are not loose, fortunately, but it's crackling when you walk on it, obviously something's broken up underneath.

Since there seems to be some agreement that it's up to him to foot the bill, do I present him with a receipt and ask for him to give me money back? Would it be better if I asked for services equal to the amount I paid for the additional tiles?

I don't know how to broach this subject.

Are the tiles returnable?

Contractor's typically get 40%+- off when shopping at the same supply house.

Let him buy them.

Where is billv? He would be able to give you an exact answer.

judithn, you've written honestly you don't know how to broach this subject.

It's a big barrier.

I think we've all been in that situation where we rely on whatever we "conventionally know" to guide us through the process. There is so much that is convention.

From here on in, it might feel like you are traveling in a foreign land and you only know a few words.

Perhaps someone will post something that will help you pick an approach.

I had a powder room floor that failed after about a year. Luckily, the company that did my project had a 5 year warranty. I told them where I purchased the tiles and they purchased the replacements. If you can return what you have, just let him know the tile name / color and where you purchased them. That should give him a strong hint. He will get a contractor's discount from the store.

Post in the Baths forum with a shout-out to Bill V. Don't put Kitchens in your title or it may be moved--just include his name and failed tile floor.

We just had our tile floor done with self leveling compound. Before they did it, I did some research to learn about it and saw this post regarding another failed SLC floor. There is a lot of good info in it regarding now to prep before using SLC.

Here is a link that might be useful: crunch floor thread

"Our contractor put CBU over existing plywood floor then went to the basement and glued the seams of the plywood to the floor joists."

None of this makes any difference if the joists Are not adequate for the size of the tile.

The first thing that must be stiff enough are the basic joists carrying the load.

The next thing is the sub-floor spreading the load to the joists.

Cement board adds no strength in this application, it is just a separation layer.

Typical floor joists are designed for a deflection of 1/360 of the joist span.
This may be adequate for mosaic and small tiles it the sub-floor is stiff enough.

Larger tiles needs 1/480 or smaller deflection. and stiffer sub-flooring.

Stone tiles and very large tiles need 1/720 or better deflections and even stiffer sub-floor.

Excellent information in the crunch floor thread that itsallaboutthefood posted above. It should answer all of your questions.

Judith do you have a spouse? I normally wouldn't ask but it appears you aren't up to the business transaction at hand.

This is business plain and simple. If I was a bank teller and you brought in a thousand dollar deposit which I mistakenly put in someone else's account would you be confused about how to ask for it back?

It's simple, present him with the bill and expect cash in return. Personally I'd have him pay for a real tile guy to do the job correctly but if you don't mind him taking another crack at something he obviously does not know how to do a few times, who am I to say you shouldn't?

I had a contractors tile guy do a floor. It was crap work. I made them use my tile guy for the next floor and they of course paid for the materials, demo and new floor. I did not and would not allow them to buy the tile.

The April 2011 issue of The Journal of Light Construction has an excellent article about applying self-leveling underlayment over plywood: JLC article

You have to pay to see it online. I subscribe to the magazine but not online.

According to the article, the OP's contractor made at least two mistakes. He should have applied a second layer of plywood, either 1/2" or 5/8" and should have put down a metal lath before pouring. He also should have applied a bonding primer before the lath which he may have done but who knows?

Hope he got it right the second time around.