Ours were equally badly done all over!
Really, drywall was such a hassle. We had to get them back again and again to re-do areas.

But, they did sand and re-mud and finish the areas that went behind the kitchen cabs as well.

We're right at that stage today -after tape and mud, before sanding. What should I be looking for to see if they did a good job?

Behind cabinets I'd at least expect to see the joints and screw holes smooth and flat for the sake of the cabinets mounting on a straight surface. A coat of primer over everything wouldn't hurt either but I noticed bare drywall behind my range when I pulled it out. Never would have known otherwise.

- D

Yes, that is normal (as long as the drywall that will be exposed, including ABOVE the cabinets is finished properly). If that bothers you, wait until the cabinets are installed. Walls are often not perfectly level, so they cut into the walls to get the cabinets perfectly level and plumb.

It's typical practice not to do a lot of finishing behind cabinets. I don't really see that much time needs to be spent on it--as long as drywall is flat and no break-out areas.

AlanandNancy, (this is for areas not behind the cabs) - I was told to stand close to one end of the wall and look along it, it should look smooth. you should not be able to see a ridge where the drywall sheets join. Screw/nail holes should be flat (any "popping" of screws is bad). The mud should be smooth and have no ridges/bumps (after sanding).

Run your hand over it, shine a contractor light from the side onto it so that any lumps and bumps show up.

Look around electrical outlets -- the drywall should not be cut so big that there will be gaps once the outlet plates are put on (we have big gaps around many outlets -- amazing, as the "gadget" for cutting a perfect outlet-sized hole in drywall costs about $5 at HD).

Look underneath window sills and around window/door openings.

As Don says, I don't think it has to be so good behind the cabs, just fairly flat. I primed behind my cabs as well.

I'm not an expert (just someone with bad drywall!) so hopefully someone who is will add what else to look for from a good drywall job.

If it bothers you, mud and primer away. I agree with what you say there. I usually pay as much attention to unseen areas as I do to what's seen. Either way is OK.

I'm someone who does the job "all the way", too. My old cabinets got ripped out on Wednesday, exposing the original builder's work. Not only did he leave everything behind the cabinets unprimed and un"mudded", but he actually left big holes (with rough edges like someone punched it in with a hammer). My GC is patching the holes (more $$) and fixing the other defects. Unfortunately, we have many more examples of where the original builder cut corners....something I never do at work.

Thanks everyone...my DH is going to take this opportunity to learn how to do drywall finishing...he figures if he messes up it won't show...

So this weekend....finish the "unfinished" drywall patches & seams & apply primer.

Probably won't be time to paint as well.

Cabinets go up Monday...Yay!!

So, what about behind the backsplash area? Was that 18" run left unfinished too? Are you having BS put up right away?

I'm getting pretty good at patching and finishing drywall. Make sure DH has a nice wide putty knife (ie at least 12" wide) for feathering the final coats. And, I hope he has a high frustration tolerance! :>)

We're not putting in a BS right now...we have to save up for it! That area appears to be finished, so I'm happy about that.

My DH put on the first "coat" of mud and commented, "now I know why we let the professionals do it!"

I don't know how wide his putty knife is and I hesitate to say anything since I think he's already annoyed that I told him we need different rollers...he bought some "value set" and I really want him to get premium rollers...lambswool seems to be the material of choice for rollers on the Paint Forum.

Thanks for the advice, though...I will talk to him tomorrow about it when he's well rested!

We have plaster - the old oil paint was peeling - I scraped it, then my husband belt sanded it and I primed it - I wanted it nice and clean. Then we wrote our names and 2007 on it for the next person who remodels the kitchen :). If you paid for drywall work, get them to finish it.

If you DIY, webpatch 90 is great for big holes as it gets hard quick and can fill bigger holes (we have some if you can't find it anywhere)...

For painting, look for lint-free rollers. They are worth the investment of a few extra dollars. AND buy good quality paint. I use Benjamin Moore. They keep a file on all the paints/color combos I've used for each room, etc. That's great, cuz my filing system is the old cans of paint!

They didn't leave any actual holes. All the holes have been patched. But, the patches and seams that will be behind the base and upper cabinets only received one round of mudding and sanding. In one place the tape shows through that first mudding big time! My DH talked to the Contractor and he said it wasn't worth his guys' time and wage to finish drywall that isn't going to be seen.

This whole situation reminds me of a conversation in one of my favorite books (Pawn of Prophecy by David Eddings). It's a conversation b/w a young boy and a blacksmith... "Always do the very best job you can," he said on another occasion as he put the last finishing touches with a file on the metal part of a wagon tongue he was repairing.

"But that piece goes underneath," Garion said. "No one will ever see it."

"But I know it's there," Durnik said, still smoothing the metal. "If it isn't done as well as I can do it, I'll be ashamed every time I see this wagon go by..."

My DH went over all the places that the Contractor shorted and will sand tomorrow morning and apply another coat of mud. Hopefully by Sunday we will be able to apply our first coat of primer on the ceiling and walls.

Thanks for the recommendation, I will keep Webpatch 90 in mind though, in case we need it later!

Raehelen...our KD is recommending Benjamin Moore...

Cornsilk (a "Classic Color") for the kitchen and DR and Wedgewood Gray (an "Historical Color") for the FR.

I'm going to go to a BM store tomorrow to get samples of both...I will probably buy a quart of each to "try out" next to our cabinets after they're installed next week. We don't have our granite installed yet, so I am reserving the right to change my mind later on about paint colors...although our KD said she and the interior design team got together to work on the colors for us...taking into account our cabinets, granite (Diamond Black), and tile floor. We also have a lot of light in all 3 rooms as they are on the west side of the house and have a lot of windows. (I know, our KD doesn't have a great track record as far as measuring is concerned, but we have been very happy with with her design and color choices so far.)

Do you know if these paints are BM's "better/best" paints? I read on the Paint Forum to always go with a top-of-the-line paint regardless of the paint brand. I know they aren't Aura, but are they still "better" paints?

He may not feel it is worth their time, but what are you paying for and what is in your contract? I'm anal and I want those things done, which is one reason why we'll never be done and are DIY... it's ashame when people cut corners - it causes more issues in the long run. Why not do it right in the first place?

When we had our old cabinets torn out we found a hole in the floor which they'd covered with a cabinet, directly over dirt, not bothering to put in any subfloor at all! (We always wondered why that area was so drafty.) I wonder if the guy who did that didn't sleep well....

Buehl,

In the US the premium line is called Regal. Here, in Canada, it is called 'Collection'- which is what I use. For our Master BR (which should be drywalled this weekend), I'm planning on using the Aura paints which are literally just available this month here.

So, the colours you have been given can be made up in the premium or in the regular line. Definitely go premium, which is Regal. When you think of how much everything has cost, this is NOT the place to save $10! (As you probably know! :>) The better paints are easier to use, as they cover better- I ALWAYS have to use two coats and sometimes three if I'm changing colours. As you may have learned on the painting forum, be sure to cut in first, let it dry, and then roll. Cut in again for the second coat- I thought I could save this step- but the work is in the masking off, so once that labor intensive job has been done, you may as well cut twice! I can cut close to the ceiling without making too much of a mark, but it's when I roll up there, that I make paint marks on my masking tape, so it's important that I take the time to mask all my ceilings!

We have Lennox Tan for most of the upstairs, and I'm thinking of Hampshire Gray for the Master (though there may be new colours available in the Aura). I'm planning on doing a faux finish with the crown molding to make it really rich (well, that's the idea!) Our trim is all Cloud White, which is a gorgeous white- I'm using Impervo which looks great on my doors, trim and laundry shelves.

Here, they give me the 'House' price at BM. So, be sure and ask for that- I think it's about a 25% discount (maybe your KD can even get you more?)

Yes, it is common practice. I wouldn't worry about. Also, the economy rollers will be just fine for slapping primer on in an area that you won't ever see. (The cabs have closed panel backs in all likelihood?) Use 'em & toss 'em. Lambswool rollers are generally used for oil based paints...No need to use them w/ water based paints because premium quality synthetic rollers do a great job for the top coats.

Ci_Lantro, we're priming everywhere...not just behind the cabinets. About half our walls in the kitchen and all of our ceiling in the kitchen & DR are new drywall.

So, is it OK to prime with economy rollers for the visible areas and ceilings?

No, go with at least mid grade to better rollers - just makes life easier and zinsser's primer (they have it now at Home Depot and Walmart). The Bin 123 is my favorite - I've tried a few brands. (If you can't find any in a hurry, don't worry, we have extra in the basement for you as I buy in bulk).

We had peeling paint on plaster (after removing wall paper). We found notes from the previous owners behind the wall paper, which was neat. So in the places where cabinets were going to cover it up, we didn't strip (enough fumes from the chemical strippers already..., sanding didn't work so well). And we wrote notes ourselves too, for whoever decides to redo the kitchen in the future!

So, although I consider myself close to a perfectionist in the spectrum of things, we decided to cut corners behind cabinets, because we wanted to spend our precious time where it mattered most. I worried I might regret it, but now that the cabinets are up, out of sight, out of mind...!

Buehl...I'd use better quality rollers since you're doing the whole space. You'll get nicer, more even coverage and will be an easier job of it.

A couple of tips--if you have to stop in the middle of a job, put a plastic bag over the roller & pop it in the freezer. Saves the hassle of cleanup. (Works for brushes, too.)

I wouldn't mess w/ cleaning up cheapo roller covers but I do clean the better/ best ones. When you're finished painting, the easy & fast way to clean them is take the whole roller/ frame assembled outside, put an extension handle on it, hook up a sprayer on the garden hose & aim the spray at the edge of the roller. The roller will start spinning like crazy & fling all the paint & most of the water off. Once you're satisfied that it's clean, stand the roller on its end to finish drying.

Thanks for all the tips...and...

...OH.....MY.....GOSH!!!

Ceiling painting is tough!!!!

(The walls were much easier!!!)

Can you tell it's my first time painting? :-)

My walls are all skim coated. They did it behind the cabinets too. I asked because it seemed unnecessary to me where it wouldn't be seen. But my workers felt that was the thing to do.

(I had the *best* contractor and workers! Perfectionists. And my plasterer was a magician.)

I never found if you wash rollers they are worth reusing. I've never heard of putting them in the freezer but there is no way a paint filled roller is going near my new kitchen except to be walked through very quickly. Interesting idea. I put them in a plastic bag and they stay for a week or so... if not, to me it isn't worth the money and I toss it... I buy good paint brushes for my husband and he washes them... for me, I buy mid-grade and put them too in plastic bags and they get tossed too... I can't be bothered.

Buehl..I never painted before my husband... we never installed windows.... never did copper plumbing... never installed a kitchen.... never skim coated walls... never ... the list can go on and on... if I can do it, so can you... let us know how it turns out.