He must not be comfortable or set up to produce that style of drawer front. Same way for the side mounted slides. I don't prefer the side mounted soft close but there is nothing wrong with them. Try out one of his samples and see if you like the motion. I am sure he is set up only for side mounted slides. Undermounted slides require a difference clearance for the drawer box.

I feel that part of my job is to help my clients pick out all of the items for their cabinets and steer them to the items that I know and trust but I am also a custom cabinet maker and I feel it is also my job to learn new things and try new things in order to give my clients what they want. Hopefully your guy is the same way and if you want that drawer front and undermounts then he will be willing to change his methods to make you happy.

Travis Alfrey Woodworking
Pinehurst, NC

We have used just about every major brand of side and bottom-mounted glide, and really, there is very little difference among them in terms of quality, functionality and durability. It sounds to me like you don't trust your cabinetmaker enough to rely on his judgment. If this is the case, get another cabinetmaker. Otherwise, back off and let him do his job. He probably knows more about it than you do.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cabinet Basics

Travis, thank you for letting me know that he simply may not be set up for the mitered drawer fronts.
All he would say is that the 5 pc drawer front is a "gimmick" from the cab manufacturers and won't last. But, I have a dresser and my Mom had cabinets with the 5 pc drawers just like that, and both have lasted well over 30 years with none of the miter cuts slipping out of place, so I found the comment odd.
We just wanted the doors to have the design we liked is all. We will see next week.

Oldtimecarpenter, I do basically trust him, and want to stay with him for many reasons. And, I know he does know more about it than me. But, back off when I'm spending thousands of dollars? I backed off the flooring guy and let him do his job. He didn't check to see if my floors were level. They weren't. :(

I was interested simply because I read so much about the Blumotion bottom mount being superior. I'm only making sure he's not giving me something that is out of date or inferior to those.
My comment on the overlay is just venting, nothing's gotten argumentative yet. I'm hoping to stay that way by asking questions here so I don't get frustrated and confused.

southernstitcher, when I was looking at hardware for my custom made cabs, I looked at some cabs that were made with the side extension hardware and they worked beautifully. However, I ended up going with the bottom-mounted blum for looks...but as someone else pointed out it may depend on the best use of your space.

Erika, yes, I hope the lady whose home he is taking me to next week doesn't mind me opening her drawers a few times! I'll sign off only when he tells me the brand of glide he's using, and I approve of the drawer front design he does. I'm sure it's that he's expert at this one design and does it better than anything. I just think it's a cop out if that is the case to say snarky things about cabinet manufacturers instead. If we had this design in the 70's, then it isn't anything new!

My DH told me it's similar to my sewing - I wouldn't mind if someone asks me to make a special seam, or use a particular brand/type of thread, although they never do! I'd explain why I'd rather not if that's the case, otherwise I'm game. I'm fine if they've done a little research and question me. I'm sure this cabinet guy thinks I'm weird too!

gailolfe, good to know. I just want the most for my $$!
He will be making them from pecan!

I don't think there is anything wrong with side glides but I personally don't like the looks of them. the undermount version makes it look more like a furniture piece. Plus my friend who has that kind of glide--all of the crumbs, lint, etc, gets stuck in there.

My DH told me it's similar to my sewing - I wouldn't mind if someone asks me to make a special seam, or use a particular brand/type of thread, although they never do! I'd explain why I'd rather not if that's the case, otherwise I'm game. I'm fine if they've done a little research and question me. I'm sure this cabinet guy thinks I'm weird too!

Using the sewing analogy, perhaps it would be better to think of mitered joints as being more like working with the bias of a fabric. That is, bias cuts of fabric behave differently that cuts with the grain or at 90 degrees across the grain of the fabric.

Just like fabric, wood has properties--general ones and species specific ones. For instance, you would probably advise against using box pleating with bias cut woven plaid gauze fabric. Like fabric, mitered cuts of wood behave differently so, unless you have a good understanding of wood properties, it really is advisable to listen closely to people who do understand wood and all of the subtleties of the particular type of wood that you'll be using. So, I'd advise you to research and seek out expert opinions--like from people who work with wood--cabinet makers, furniture builders,....

I imagine you are paying for the cabinets yes? If so then you have every right to a an explnation that you can understand and makes sense to you regardless of your level of expertise. Based on what I have seen a huge % of problems experienced in relation to renos are the result of inadequate communication between the homeowner and the contractor (communication: that's receiving and sending). Your guy sounds good, he is taking you to see his work and showing you whay he means. Don't back off because if you don't understand what you are getting and don't like it you will be unhappy and that isn't good for him.

Most of the major hardware lines make side mount drawer hardware - it isn't as pretty but who really cares? My guess is that id does require that the drawer boxes be narrower so you are losing some space - probably not enough to worry about.

Description of joints:

Mitered Joint
Mitred doors and drawers have a frame that is joined by a mitre joint at the corners. A mitre joint is a 45° cut on both the stile and the rail. This joint runs diagonally from the inside corner of the frame to the outside corner.

Mitre cut doors are used on doors that have a fancy detail on the stile and rail that would be difficult to form with a Cope & Pattern joint (see below).

Miter joints are also used on inexpensive doors because this type of joint is easy to make.

Tenon & Mortise Joint
A traditional tenon and mortise joint (similar to tongue and groove) is the most common, and provides strength to the joint. Each end of the rail has a tenon (extension), which fits into a pocket (mortise) cut into the side of the stile.

Cope & Pattern Joint
This type of joint is often seen on furniture grade cabinetry.

Cutting tools are used to cut the rails (horizontal) and stiles (vertical) which result in two pieces, each a mirror image of the other.

In addition, a slot is cut into the rail and stile for the center door panel. The shape of the cut allows for a greater glue area, resulting in a stronger joint.

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Here is a link that might be useful: good cabinetry overview

Hi Southerstitcher,
It sounds to me your gut instinct is telling you something. We don't always listen to it, however, it is always right.
Blum motion undermount glides are by far a better way to go with your drawers. He apparently doesn't install them on his cabinets. The drawer front you are talking about works perfectly fine. He is giving you a line of grap!
We teach people how to treat us. Don't let someone (GC or cabinet maker) walk over you. It's your money, not theirs!
Stick with your gut instincts, they are never wrong.
Good Luck

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Cabinets Direct

I appreciate what Travis is saying but my bottom line (mine,not necessarily yours) is I would not want to be his test case for something new. Lots of store vignettes will have undermount full extension glides so you can compare with what he shows you (personally I couldn't give a ***p what my drawer slides looked like as long as they work properly - if you care great, if not don't worry about what anybody else has). I wouldn't push him outside of his comfort zone, in my opinion that is a recipe for problems. If you want things he doesn't do or doesn't like to do I would find another cabinet maker. I have to say I'm not clear what a two piece drawer front looks like - does he mean a sub front and then a finish front? If so then I gather he makes the finish front the same way he makes the door (which is without mitres). I have to say if the doors are not mitred why mitre the drawer fronts?

FYI it is my understanding that mitre joints are not as strong as mortise and tenon joints so if he doesn't like mitres it just may be an old school thing. It will limit what door styles he can do but if you don't want a style that requires it why worry about it? He does sound a little old school but that isn't always a bad thing.

caryscott, thanks for such a great explanation. I'm not clear either on the 2 pc front, but I will post a picture! yes, oldschool is a good thing in many cases.

I couldn't find a good picture on Kraftmaid's site, but there is a style that has raised panel doors and a drawer similar to the drawer I wanted. Perhaps those Kraftmaid had mitered doors, and that is what is causing the confusion. I agree that the mitered drawers might not look good with mortise & tenon doors. See, that's why I posted the question. I'm starting to get a better understanding. We just really liked the 5 piece design instead of the plain, slab front drawers. Maybe we can get him to do something else if we don't like whatever it is he is doing.

ci lantro, you are correct about bias seams. No can do box pleats with chiffon on the bias.

cabinetconsultant thanks for that input. I just don't see where a miter is a big bad thing either, but oh well -- he doesn't do them.

First let me say you are the one living with and paying for the kitchen-you should get what you want. You should know your choices so you can make an informed decision. As far as the cabinet maker saying that this type of mitered drawer is a gimmick I'd have to agree. To me it is a cop-out way of adding detail to doors and drawers that lower end manufacturers use. But if you like that look there is nothing wrong with it. It isn't as strong but it isn't going to just fall apart either. If you're not using that style on the doors I wouldn't mix the two. You don't have to have a plan slab drawer either. There are other ways to get the look you're after. From your plans there is no way to tell what the detail on the cabinet doors is going to be so I can't really give you my best opinion. I would look at how the high-end cabinets are done. Some things could be; stile and rail with a panel and inset moldings, single slab with detail routered into it, single slab with applied molding etc. I'm building some sample doors and drawers right now that I could show you as an example but the wouldn't be ready until some time next week.
John

John, thanks so much! I'll take a photo tonight of what the door style he left with us looks like, and post it here on this thred asap.
I appreciate the input. That is what I was thinking exactly -- it's not the strongest joint, but it's not going to fall apart immediately. I'd love to see what you are doing!