I also have a GF toaster & waffle iron...those are items that you can't always be sure you've gotten every nook & cranny clean.

I also always use foil or parchment paper in my pans when I bake GF.

I always roast GF.

Recently, I found this list online (I don't remember where I found it, sorry!)

What items should you get duplicates of? Cutting boards for gluten and gluten-free items
Colanders for the different pasta (have you ever really looked at the residue that can get wedged in the holes even after being in the dishwasher?)
Knives  if they go into a block. Some households use their bread knife, for example, and then put it back into the block  contaminating the block for good.
Wooden spatulas, spoons. Porous materials just donÂt get clean enough to use in both gluten-free and non-gluten-free foods.
Stoneware for baking, i.e. Pampered Chef and others like it, for the same reason as above, porous. The stoneware likely canÂt get clean enough to use for both gluten and non-gluten baking. According to the Pampered ChefÂs stoneware care instructions: "Hand wash in hot water...It is not recommended to use soap, detergent or an automatic dishwasher. Remove excess food with scraper." If Pampered Chef is your favorite, then get a second gluten-free set, IÂm sure the company will love you for it.

Turkey...I've been using GF stuffing in the turkey & made non-GF stuffing separately. However, I haven't been happy with the stuffing. janet_425...is the rice stuffing you mentioned the "Gluten-Free, Dairy-Free, Corn-Free, Hazelnut And Mandarin Stuffing"?

As to meals, surprisingly, most meals can be made GF so I find I don't make separate meals much anymore.

Pasta...I find I like "Mrs. Leeper's" organic GF corn spaghetti I get at Safeway much better than regular pasta! (And, much, much better than rice pasta.)

GF Restaurants:

• PF Chang's (one of my favorites)

• Uno Chicago Grill (best pizza, so far)

• Outback Steakhouse

• Carrabba's Italian Grill

• Legal Seafoods (very good GF fried calamari)

• Chili's (although, their GF menu has been shrinking)

• Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse

• Bertucci's

• Chevy's (email them, they'll tell you what's GF, then talk to the manager)

Also see: Gluten-Free Restaurant Awareness Program

Will make GF, if you ask:

• Potbelly...salads (they have a fat-free GF vinaigrette dressing that's quite good)

Avoid:

• On

  the Border...they messed up both times I tried to eat there...and even though I thought we had straightened everything out, I still got sick! I no longer go there.

I also have a GF toaster & waffle iron...those are items that you can't always be sure you've gotten every nook & cranny clean.

I also always use foil or parchment paper in my pans when I bake GF.

I always roast GF.

Recently, I found this list online (I don't remember where I found it, sorry!)

What items should you get duplicates of? Cutting boards for gluten and gluten-free items
Colanders for the different pasta (have you ever really looked at the residue that can get wedged in the holes even after being in the dishwasher?)
Knives  if they go into a block. Some households use their bread knife, for example, and then put it back into the block  contaminating the block for good.
Wooden spatulas, spoons. Porous materials just donÂt get clean enough to use in both gluten-free and non-gluten-free foods.
Stoneware for baking, i.e. Pampered Chef and others like it, for the same reason as above, porous. The stoneware likely canÂt get clean enough to use for both gluten and non-gluten baking. According to the Pampered ChefÂs stoneware care instructions: "Hand wash in hot water...It is not recommended to use soap, detergent or an automatic dishwasher. Remove excess food with scraper." If Pampered Chef is your favorite, then get a second gluten-free set, IÂm sure the company will love you for it.

Turkey...I've been using GF stuffing in the turkey & made non-GF stuffing separately. However, I haven't been happy with the stuffing. janet_425...is the rice stuffing you mentioned the "Gluten-Free, Dairy-Free, Corn-Free, Hazelnut And Mandarin Stuffing"?

As to meals, surprisingly, most meals can be made GF so I find I don't make separate meals much anymore.

Pasta...I find I like "Mrs. Leeper's" organic GF corn spaghetti I get at Safeway much better than regular pasta! (And, much, much better than rice pasta.)

GF Restaurants:

• PF Chang's (one of my favorites)

• Uno Chicago Grill (best pizza, so far)

• Outback Steakhouse

• Carrabba's Italian Grill

• Legal Seafoods (very good GF fried calamari)

• Chili's (although, their GF menu has been shrinking)

• Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse

• Bertucci's

• Chevy's (email them, they'll tell you what's GF, then talk to the manager)

Also see: Gluten-Free Restaurant Awareness Program

Will make GF, if you ask:

• Potbelly...salads (they have a fat-free GF vinaigrette dressing that's quite good)

Avoid:

• On

  the Border...they messed up both times I tried to eat there...and even though I thought we had straightened everything out, I still got sick! I no longer go there.

I also have a GF toaster & waffle iron...those are items that you can't always be sure you've gotten every nook & cranny clean.

I also always use foil or parchment paper in my pans when I bake GF.

I always roast GF.

Recently, I found this list online (I don't remember where I found it, sorry!)

What items should you get duplicates of? Cutting boards for gluten and gluten-free items
Colanders for the different pasta (have you ever really looked at the residue that can get wedged in the holes even after being in the dishwasher?)
Knives  if they go into a block. Some households use their bread knife, for example, and then put it back into the block  contaminating the block for good.
Wooden spatulas, spoons. Porous materials just donÂt get clean enough to use in both gluten-free and non-gluten-free foods.
Stoneware for baking, i.e. Pampered Chef and others like it, for the same reason as above, porous. The stoneware likely canÂt get clean enough to use for both gluten and non-gluten baking. According to the Pampered ChefÂs stoneware care instructions: "Hand wash in hot water...It is not recommended to use soap, detergent or an automatic dishwasher. Remove excess food with scraper." If Pampered Chef is your favorite, then get a second gluten-free set, IÂm sure the company will love you for it.

Turkey...I've been using GF stuffing in the turkey & made non-GF stuffing separately. However, I haven't been happy with the stuffing. janet_425...is the rice stuffing you mentioned the "Gluten-Free, Dairy-Free, Corn-Free, Hazelnut And Mandarin Stuffing"?

As to meals, surprisingly, most meals can be made GF so I find I don't make separate meals much anymore.

Pasta...I find I like "Mrs. Leeper's" organic GF corn spaghetti I get at Safeway much better than regular pasta! (And, much, much better than rice pasta.)

GF Restaurants:

• PF Chang's (one of my favorites)

• Uno Chicago Grill (best pizza, so far)

• Outback Steakhouse

• Carrabba's Italian Grill

• Legal Seafoods (very good GF fried calamari)

• Chili's (although, their GF menu has been shrinking)

• Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse

• Bertucci's

• Chevy's (email them, they'll tell you what's GF, then talk to the manager)

Also see: Gluten-Free Restaurant Awareness Program

Will make GF, if you ask:

• Potbelly...salads (they have a fat-free GF vinaigrette dressing that's quite good)

Avoid:

• On

  the Border...they messed up both times I tried to eat there...and even though I thought we had straightened everything out, I still got sick! I no longer go there.

I also have a GF toaster & waffle iron...those are items that you can't always be sure you've gotten every nook & cranny clean.

I also always use foil or parchment paper in my pans when I bake GF.

I always roast GF.

Recently, I found this list online (I don't remember where I found it, sorry!)

What items should you get duplicates of? Cutting boards for gluten and gluten-free items
Colanders for the different pasta (have you ever really looked at the residue that can get wedged in the holes even after being in the dishwasher?)
Knives  if they go into a block. Some households use their bread knife, for example, and then put it back into the block  contaminating the block for good.
Wooden spatulas, spoons. Porous materials just donÂt get clean enough to use in both gluten-free and non-gluten-free foods.
Stoneware for baking, i.e. Pampered Chef and others like it, for the same reason as above, porous. The stoneware likely canÂt get clean enough to use for both gluten and non-gluten baking. According to the Pampered ChefÂs stoneware care instructions: "Hand wash in hot water...It is not recommended to use soap, detergent or an automatic dishwasher. Remove excess food with scraper." If Pampered Chef is your favorite, then get a second gluten-free set, IÂm sure the company will love you for it.

Turkey...I've been using GF stuffing in the turkey & made non-GF stuffing separately. However, I haven't been happy with the stuffing. janet_425...is the rice stuffing you mentioned the "Gluten-Free, Dairy-Free, Corn-Free, Hazelnut And Mandarin Stuffing"?

As to meals, surprisingly, most meals can be made GF so I find I don't make separate meals much anymore.

Pasta...I find I like "Mrs. Leeper's" organic GF corn spaghetti I get at Safeway much better than regular pasta! (And, much, much better than rice pasta.)

GF Restaurants:

• PF Chang's (one of my favorites)

• Uno Chicago Grill (best pizza, so far)

• Outback Steakhouse

• Carrabba's Italian Grill

• Legal Seafoods (very good GF fried calamari)

• Chili's (although, their GF menu has been shrinking)

• Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse

• Bertucci's

• Chevy's (email them, they'll tell you what's GF, then talk to the manager)

Also see: Gluten-Free Restaurant Awareness Program

Will make GF, if you ask:

• Potbelly...salads (they have a fat-free GF vinaigrette dressing that's quite good)

Avoid:

• On

  the Border...they messed up both times I tried to eat there...and even though I thought we had straightened everything out, I still got sick! I no longer go there.

Welcome to the Club, SquareFour! Well, sort of...I have Celiac Disease as well and, like you, cook for both me and everyone else.

Pantry...I got some of Tupperware's Modular Mates and used color-coding. Items that contain gluten (flour, pasta, etc.) have red covers, specially gluten-free products as well as those that are naturally gluten-free (e.g., brown sugar & sugar) have blue tops.

For tools & utensils, I physically separated my gluten-free tools/utensils in cabs & drawers. For example, my gluten-free measuring cups and saucer plates that I use for gluten-free spoon rests are in an upper cabinet to the left of the cooktop and the gluten-friendly measuring cups (no saucers) are to the right of the cooktop. I also have one drawer for the gluten free tools (like tongs, measuring spoons, pastry brush, etc.) in a drawer to the left of the cooktop while the others are under the cooktop.

I keep most of my spoons, etc. in utensil crocks and do the same (left/GF, right/others). When baking regular breads, etc., I usually move the utensil crock w/the GF utensils to the other side of the kitchen...just to be safe in case flour gets "splashed" around.

I bought a new cutting board that I use only for fruits, veggies, and gluten-free items. "Regular" bread and similar are relegated to an old cutting board.

I also bought a new pastry board, again, for gluten-free products only.

Everything is color-coded or, in the case of wooden spoons, "size-coded" so it's easy to tell what goes where & what they're each used for.

BTW...when cooking, baking, etc., I always get out a clean saucer to use for a spoon rest b/c I never know for certain if someone has had bread or other gluten product on the counter and left crumbs behind. I also never prep gluten-free foods on a bare counter.

One thing I haven't done is get a separate set of pots & pans or separate mixing bowls. I do make sure they are well-washed first in the sink and then in the DW. So far I haven't had issues.

(Do you miss bread as much as I do??

Oh, if you like thin-crust pizza, check out Uno Chicago Grill's GF pizza...it's the closest thing I've found to "real" pizza!)

Hi squarefour. I don't have celiac, but my SO and his adult children do. The good news for you is that as this has become more common you have greater options for food now and the ingredients lists and packaging is much, much better than it was when he was diagnosed 20+ years ago.

You will need to have additional cooking utensils and a few extra pots so that you can have multiple versions of the same meal going at one time, but you don't need gluten free specific items. For meals such as pasta, we just drain the pot with the GF spagetti first then, then drain the regular spagetti using the same strainer. If you don't have a bread machine already, you may want to think about getting a good one. GF bread can be pricey, the machine will pay for itself. You will need additional pantry space for the GF items, but not that you would need to double a normal pantry for your family.

DS1 is gluten-free. The switch was really hard for him when we started this journey, so I actually cleaned out our pantry of all glutenous items and had the whole family eating gluten-free. I brought all the gluten stuff over to my cousin's tiny ap@rtment and she said, "what am I going to do with 20lbs of flour?"(I'm a baker, she isn't.) It took about 3 weeks of experimenting with gf flours and turning out hockeypucks before I could make things that people would want to eat, but now everyone(including doubting in-laws, and super-picky teenaged boys) enjoy my cookies and brownies.

DH has a secret stash of glutenous items(bread, blue box mac&cheese(ugh), spaghetti-os with processed meatballs(doubleyuck), etc.) in our bedroom. He cleared off a shelf in his chifferobe for overly processed glutenous food. He works from home and eats these at lunch when DS1 is at sch0ol. I've found that cross contamination can be a real problem with things like peanut butter where one might dip a knife in, spread, and re-dip. We tried to keep separate tubs of spreadable butter, etc., but it was too easy to slip. Now if DH wants a pbj, he needs to transfer the spreads to a dish, put the jars away, then make his sandwich.

Having the whole family eat gluten-free gets really expensive, but it's just so much easier than making separate meals and asking everyone to be on guard for cross contamination. I think the switch for us was easier than for some because I'm asian-american and we already ate a lot of rice and rice noodles and as someone who enjoys baking, we never had a lot of packaged cookies, etc. in the house.

Wow, thanks for the feedback. So far, I know no one else in my community who has celiac and I feel like I'm blindly making a major lifestyle change.

Buehl, I love the idea of color coding since I have some kitchen "helpers" who may not be as careful. I will use my own spoon rest too (never thought of that!). Yesterday, I accidentally flipped a piece of my daughter's bagel into my coffee and had to start over with a clean coffee cup. So I need to stop putting my coffee cup next to the toaster!

I do miss bread but have a diagnosis of Crohn's as well and high antibodies to yeast...so I've already spent two years off bread and wine (sigh). I'm just grateful to be eating solid food most days. When I feel good, I love to cook because I appreciate food and spices more than ever. I'd like an open spice rack on the wall of our new kitchen so I can enjoy picking out and using spices as I take on new types of cooking.

Katsmah, I bought some gluten free pasta and you make a good point about draining gluten free pasta first. I'd rather not buy a lot of extra pots and pans, especially with the expense of a build around the corner.

Laxsupermom, I have always been a baker too and I'm concerned about the hockey pucks. I admire your full-on switch to gluten free family meals. I see bread crumbs on the butter dish and realize so many things are contaminated (I'm afraid my heritage is N European bread and butter). Since I am the cook, I can see how our menu is going to evolve into more Asian and Indian fare. Delicious food and healthy too. I had to laugh about your DH's stash. When I got the diagnosis, I revealed my stash of girl scout cookies to my husband and asked him to eat them. Truly a turning point. Thank you.

A question for all you gluten-free folks: I don't have celiac, but my doctor has me on a regimen for another problem that involves avoiding gluten. I've managed to find acceptable substitutes for almost everything else (or else to just give it up), but I can't find a decent bread substitute. I've tried innumerable recipes and mixes, and some are okay when eaten warm from the oven, but they all fall terribly short for say, a piece of toast for poached egg on toast. Any suggestions?

I really respect those of you who manage to run a kitchen with some folks eating gluten and some not. It's complicated enough to find and store what's needed when you only have to worry about keeping gluten out entirely.

Another suggestion is to cook one meal whenever possible -- everybody can have potatoes, rice, etc.

My kids' penpals' mother runs a really informative celiac website -- celiacnurse.com As the title implies, she is a nurse and does not give any advice without checking the medical literature first. And, she's a great cook! I used her rice stuffing recipe that she posted for Thanksgiving, and we're not even a gluten free family.

Whole Foods has a decent selection of GF bread, snacks and frozen food for on the go eating. We usually eat simply which makes it easier to keep GF. I eat a lot more potatos and rice than I would if he wasn't GF, though I draw the line at pasta. For the mixed meals, we keep all fixings separate and as long as we time it that the GF part is done slightly ahead of the regular part, it works out fine.

I suggest keeping a separate area in the fridge for butter, jellies, mayo. Those are the easiest foods to contaminate.

Check product ingredients every time you shop, manufacturers will change their ingredients with no warning. Beware of MSG in food. Thats usually the killer when a product looks good in every other aspect.

My sister was diagnosed with Celiac years ago. Her family meals are generally gluten free, but she keeps "regular" things in the house for snacks, bread, cereal, etc. You don't need separate utensils, pans, etc. I would plan on extra pantry space (and freezer space, many flours, etc., are better kept in the freezer to make them last) and a canister/labeling system. I woudl also start a 3 ring binder of receipes that work for you. I cook gluten free for my sister all the time. I don't put pans away dirty, so no issue there. I wash cutting boards before I use them (in case a sandwich was made on it, or bread was cut on it). Plan on having multiple butter dishes, keep yours labeled and somewhat hidden (butter is a big way cross contamination happens). Same with jelly, peanut butter, mayo, etc. Getting your family to "get it" (those in your household and those not) may not be easy. A relative of mine contaminated a plate of gluten free cornbread I made my putting on the same plate as regular bread. Duh!

For recipes check out the King Arthur website (they have great products as well), simplyrecipes.com (the gluten free section)...there are many others.

Part of the reason I think having separate everything won't work is because you will be the only on that thoroughly respects the system. You can't trust that someone didn't use the gluten free cutting board sitting in the dish drain because it was convenient for them. You can't rely on them not having used a knife to slice a bagel in half and then putting it away. You need to get in the habit of wiping things down before using them.

Here is a link that might be useful: I made this chocolate cake on Easter...

Thanks again. I just learned some new facts on celiacnurse.com. I see MSG listed as "okay" on some celiac sites, "bad" on others. From what I can tell, it has been made from wheat in the past and still might be. One more uncertainty when eating out. More freezer space sounds helpful and I hadn't thought of this...our fridge/freezer combo is overflowing now. Sometimes the door pops open on its own. And that flourless chocolate cake looks so good! I'm going to see how many eggs we have...

I too have Celiac and have kept most of my "foods" in a separate drawer and part of the pantry. I also have a small oven for my use only, and I do have measuring cups/spoons that are to be used for my GF foods. BUT, I hadn't even thought of using colour as a way to distinguish what's mine and what is for the rest of the family. Great tip!

Buehl, I DO NOT miss bread. What is weird is that anytime the kids or DH toast bread, I feel nauseated. I cannot stand the scent. And I used to live on bread, LOL

Schar makes a good bread mix. I bought from Amazon since none of the shops in my town do not carry this item. It makes the best pizza crust ever.

Squarefour, I would not mess with MSG. In fact, I read recently that even soy sauce that claims to be GF is not. I tend to be highly sensitive so I must read and double check everything. Even GF Oats and Quinoa made me sick!

We have found in a few cases that while the name brand of a product has MSG, the store brand is ok.

squarefour, some resturant chains such as Bonefish Grill, Outback and Charlie Browns have GF menus. Makes going out to eat a lot easier. Otherwise he will just have plain broiled steak or fish and a baked potato. As long as the resturant doesn't slip a piece of bread under the steak, there are no problems.

I've been following a GF diet for over 11 years now. I remember how daunting the transition into this new world was. It does get easier as time goes by and we adjust to a new way of doing things!

It's only been my husband and I in the house, but Mom just moved in. My rules are: colander for GF first, then regular pasta, then to the DW, on the days I don't drag out two colanders.
I am the only one who can use the wooden spoons (for my GF cooking). I also keep separate spoon rests set up when I'm cooking "both ways". I've adapted many recipes to be GF, so unless it's pasta, all meals are GF. I generally roast poultry unstuffed now, and bake separate stuffings.
We have separate toasters; I keep a separate shelf in the pantry for my pastas, flours, etc, but that's only because I can't find things unless they're organized. LOL
We use the same pots and pans and cutting boards and just wash them well with hot water and soap or the DW. I've always been conscientious (ok, a bit excessive) about wiping down countertops, so crumbs aren't usually a problem.
My husband has been wonderful about no "double dipping" butter, jelly, PB and the like, but now we're going to have to keep containers of "mine" and "theirs". Having more people in the house does make things a bit more complicated. I love the color coding idea. I follow it at work and will have to move it home. My husband also suggested using a label maker to mark things.

I have a Zojirushi bread machine, bought in the "early days" that is working fine. I love the Bread from Anna mix. It tastes good, has some whole grains, holds up well, and acts like wheated bread in sandwiches.

Welcome to the club! You're going to feel better and gain a new lease on life. :-)

Oh, I did forget about the "labeling" issue. We have 2 sets of butter, PB, and jam/preserves...for the GF ones, I label both the top and the container itself with "MOM" and the unlabeled ones are for everyone else.

The only people I have problems with are my in-laws. For some reason they don't "get" it. I find them just grabbing whatever is handiest (despite repeated reminders)...utensils AND butter, etc. Several times I've had to give "my" things to everyone else b/c of it! I try to watch them closely when they're visiting.

Buehl, thanks again. I printed out your list and put it on the fridge. What a great resource! I'm so glad I posted. I will pick up some duplicate items this weekend. I also appreciate the list of restaurants that have some gluten-free choices. Last weekend I had my first gluten free meal out (family friendly diner) and ended up with salad, no dressing, and a boiled egg. Healthiest meal I've had in years but boy was I hungry when I got home!

Interestingly enough, I got terribly sick for two weeks after eating at PF Changs from their GF MENU! When I called to complain, they told me that they had found out that the night I had eaten there, it was very busy, and the Chef and helpers more than likely used the same pots/spoons for GF and regular meals!!! They invited me back to eat for free, but until I can actually go in there and take a tour of the kitchen and speak to the staff, I will not trust them.

Okay, that rant is over :-)

On the other hand, Anthony's Seafood Grill in Olympia, WA was amazing. They took such good care of me and I was able to eat from the GF menu without any problems.

All that aside, I cross contaminated myself this past week, and have been paying the price for being stupid :-(

I did what I seldom do and that was to prepare the family's meal at the same time as I was preparing mine. I was soooo busy that afternoon and was rushing things. This made me think back to how important it is to have a separate area and separate utensils if one is as sensitive as I am to gluten.

Lindiver, 11 years? You surely have a lot of wisdom to share. I still make mistakes without realising it.

GREAT information in this thread!
My son is gluten free - sensitive to it does not have Celiacs so we don't have to be militant about cross contanimation. But we mostly eat GF and he is 99% gf.
For pasta we all eat gluten free corn pasta from Schar. yes it is $$ but it is so much easier to cook that way.
Most of what we eat is gluten free too.
I can definitely see a separate shelf for storing gluten free items from nonGF ones. We have a separate space for Evan's GF foods/snacks. Separate toaster. Separate cutting boards.spoons that are wooden.
So great to know a list of places that are GF. We have a few restaurants near us that are GF including PF Changs and we do frequent the ones that are GF. NOT YOUR AVERAGE JOES restaurant is another fave of ours for GF meals and a great regular menu for everyone else.
So nice that is becoming more and more common. Grocery stores are carrying more. Betty Crocker just came out with a GF boxed cookie mix - how mainstream is that!

Mariposa, trust me, it gets easier over time!

When I was first diagnosed I just imagined a skull and crossbones superimposed over any food that wasn't GF. When I was in Vienna smelling the bread (and I hated bread before), I had to keep imagining that pirate sign to stay healthy and away from the bread. I continue to use that to remain GF. And, I also remember the few times when I've been "glutened" and how it takes me days and days to be well again.

Since until recently, it was just the two of us in the house, my husband ate a lot of GF pasta. He keeps his bread and other goodies separate and uses his own toaster. I have certain cooking spoons that are for GF foods and others for regular. Since I use the dishwasher most of the time, cleanliness is not the issue; it's to keep me straight and not stir pots with the wrong spoon when I do make 2 kinds of pasta, which I've been doing more lately.

Mistakes do happen. I was making my first meal (OK-heating up something from the Italian market) in the new kitchen the other day and was zoning out, being happy, humming my new kitchen song (who's TKO?). I realized that I had just tasted the eggplant dish that had bread crumbs. I NEVER (now almost never--LOL) do that. Luckily I realized what I'd done as soon as I did it. I spit it out and washed out my mouth and was fine.

If you can pull up my profile--I can't despite all the hints from other GWers--email me. We can talk about the GF way of life. Linda

Mistakes do happen at ANY restaurant...even at home where there's a lot less chaos than at a restaurant it happens (as you can tell from your experience). Unless it's repeated, I wouldn't eliminate PF Changs...I've been eating there since our first GW get-together in Baltimore a couple of years ago...although mostly at the Columbia location...and have never had a problem.

The other thing is that you don't know for certain they did do something wrong...yes, someone did...but it could have been them, you, or someone else...did anyone share your food? Did the rice come out in one big bowl & everyone share that? You can't do either of those safely!!!

Did the food come out in a round plate/bowl w/green trim? If not, you didn't get a GF meal. They should have also served you first and told you it was a GF meal.

I'd give them another chance b/c I think that's a rarity for them...even if it was them. If you get sick again, then I would say cross that particular location off your list for now and contact their corporate office.

Test bump for sochi.

Bumping a thread that's dropped off page 67 won't bring it back to the list, sorry! (Unless it's bumped while the Kitchen Forum is in meltdown mode...then it will sometimes re-appear when the Forum has been fixed IF it was posted to/bumped during the meltdown! Not always, but sometimes.)