Sorry I do not have a clue. I do not do doctors. They make me sick. LOL

My ENT recently told me his practice is not accepting any new Medicare patients. He says he and his partners are currently loosing about $200 per procedure for patients using Medicare. With Obamacare beginning in 4 years, he only sees it getting worse so he has accelerated his retirement plans.

I have a friend who is a heart surgeon. He is accessing all available data and will retire if his fears over the proposed health care changes are true.

We are about to enter a Canadian style health care system. There will be less choice and longer waits. Many US doctors will either retire, open boutique practices like you are describing or relocate offshore and only take care of the wealthy.

Helath care, like any other service or commodity, will be overloaded once it is "free". That is human nature.

I suffer from severe bronchitis when it hits. My current doctor has history with me and realizes I do not cry wolf so he will see me immediately if I have a flair up. Unfortunately for me, many doctors look at my condition as a mere cold, something that will pass in a few days. If something happens that I am forced into seeing a doctor that doesn't know me or my history, when I call in with a flair up, I will get sent to the back of the line and may end up dying because I can't get treated quickly enough. I honestly feel like Obama has signed my death warrant. But, I am a conservative, a constitutionalist and a devout capitalist so I am equally certain he would prefer I do pass on.

Many, many uncomfortable changes are coming. I am sad that my chidren will probably never see the strong, safe, free, constitutionally based, prosperous nation I grew up in.

Until last year, I did some regular volunteer work with the homeless. That volunteer group was heavily populated by left-leaning volunteers. Some of them were very liberal and very active in groups like Move On. I heard them articulate their plans. I heard them planning their ambush attacks against politicians. I heard them giving detailed instructions on how to vote multiple times, under multiple names to some of the homeless folks.

Our course is set and it will bring this great country to it's knees. You are seeing just the tip of the iceburg with your physician.

Scott

Remember when this used to be on "on-topic" forum? Now when I check in there are posts on broken legs, changing doctors, what people are doing for the holidays, whether or not you've ever gotten lost, etc.

How about posting on small house topics and saving everything else for the "conversation" side of the forum?

crystal we had a discussion about that (I can't find the thread right now) but since this is a quiet forum and posts over on the conversation side weren't being noticed we decided to just post them here. Most of the posts are on topic and we don't mind a bit of off topic chat here. If the forum were busier and the off topic posts were clogging it up then I think we'd all take it to conversations. I'm not trying to speak for everyone but AFAIK that was the consensus and it made sense to do it this way.

Fair enough, then.

Snort. A doctor neighbor of mine tried going that route a couple of years ago, during the height of the frenzy when people were actually willing to spend. I live in an area where many people are wealthy but cheap winter residents and he figured it would be a gold mine, that people would happily pay for the convenience of not having to fight their way off the island for medical care. How well did it work? Well, the bank just auctioned off his townhouse here, along with the other properties he had owned. I think they got 77K for it.

If it weren't for my wife, I wouldn't go to the doctor- I'd rather just take my chances. It will be interesting when they tell me I HAVE to buy health insurance. I'd like to see them lock me up. At least then I'd have health care LOL!

Sorry everyone. As soon as I posted this thread I had second thoughts because I did not want to start a hot topic. I immediately wrote GW and asked if they would delete it, but have not heard from them. I was just curious as to whether anyone was doing this with their doctor.
On to the next topic !

Darn Loretta I was not being mean in my reply. Really. I just do not do doctors. I have no health insurance. Have not had it for almost 14 years. I have cured my own cancer with herbs. If I broke my leg like you I would have to go to a doctor.I have some money saved for that from not paying for health insurance. Has to be at least broken leg or arm through. LOL Fingers and toes do not count. For anything else I take care of it myself.If I can't then I die. That is ok too.

Chris

Loretta, don't worry about the topic. I too remember when we decided to make this the discussion and conversation forum and use the other one for something else, pictures maybe since we don't have a gallery? I can't remember because I seldom go there. At the time, there were about 5 posts a week though. lol

I haven't heard of doctors going that route but I'm not surprised. I just hope we get a new prez in 2012 who can reverse Obama care before it gets going. I've heard too many horror stories from Canadians about their long waits and limited doctors.

I don't go to doctors often either and sure wouldn't pay $1200 a year just to keep one on retainer. There are a lot of doctors around here who don't take insurance at all and there is never a wait to get an appointment or at the office. I just wonder what will happen with them?

I laugh myself into hiccups when I hear people having fits about how horrible "Obamacare" is going to be. I live in the USA, have "health" insurance from a big-name insurer through my husband's employer (a Fortune 100 company). I do not dare name the insurer in public for fear of retaliation. We pay high premiums, deductibles, and co-pays, and are restricted to a certain list of doctors. (I can go outside of the network for a specialist, if I want, but benefits for that doctor and all treatment prescribed by that doctor go down to jack squat, even if there is no one in that specialty in the network!) I routinely have to wait months for precertifications - and practically everything requires precerts now, and there's a stiff penalty fee for not getting those precerts - and grovel to the insurance company (including doctors having to call and beg, and I then have to pay for their time to do so) for relatively minor procedures and services. I routinely wait months to see specialists - I had to wait nearly a year for one - and changed primary care practitioners last year because it typically took a month to get an appointment with the actual doctor. For "minor" things like sinus infections waiting a week to see a barely-trained medical assistant was the norm. DH had to have fairly major sinus/throat surgery last December; we were frantically racing the calendar because on January 1 the insurance company was going to drastically tighten the rules in regards to that surgery and DH would no longer be eligible. Off-label treatments/medications - treatments/medications that are not specifically FDA approved for that particular disease, even though the medical community has been using it successfully for many years but there's little profit in putting it through the lengthy and very expensive FDA approval process - are routinely rejected as "experimental" or "nonstandard". I live with very severe chronic pain and the one non-drug treatment in 16 years that made it manageable without large amounts of medication was disallowed by my insurer as "experimental", even though it is simply a minor variation of a well-established surgical procedure (but self-pay would be something in the area of $15-20k). My doctors, my husband and I have plowed through the lengthy appeals process - our remaining option would be taking legal action and said insurer's attitude toward that is "we've got lots and lots of lawyers, so bring it on - we will flatten you!"

So don't talk to ME about the bogeyman of long waits and rationing, I've already been arse-deep in it for years. My medical expenses were the primary reason we could not keep our previous house, we would have lost the house had we not been responsible people and voluntarily given it up. By the so-called "health care" system most people would apparently rather see in place, might as well take me out back of the barn and shoot me like Old Yeller.

Posted by trancegemini_wa: ".........we decided to just post them here. Most of the posts are on topic and we don't mind a bit of off topic chat here."

Who is this "we" that you speak of who decided this for everybody?

These political posts belong in the Hot Topics Forum.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/hottopics/

Here is a link that might be useful: Hot Topics Forum

Ummmmm, let me think...I live in a SMALLER HOME, because I can't afford insurance premiums, copay, and deductibles, and a BIG house, too. Now am I on topic? LOL, I like the relaxed style in this forum.

To quote someone in the Kitchen Table Forum (I think):

"Those people in the Hot Topics Forum scare me."

Yeah, My two smaller homes allow us to pay huge premiums and $2500 deductibles, plus 20% co-insurance. My older small house is rented out to my recently deceased DF-in-L's caregiver. With her on unemployment, they have her small check and her DH's small check, so the rent I can get for my small house is only half of the mortgage/insurance/tax payment each month. She would love to buy my small house and I would love to sell her my small house but the couple owes several thousand dollars in hospital bills for their uninsured medical expenses. Her DH lost his factory job even before the financial downturn because he was absent too often from work because of kidney stones (was in the hospitl, actually). In any other civilized country they would have had these expenses covered as part of the benefits that they pay taxes to get. Ask a Canadian if they want our system. HA!

We are not getting Canadian health care, because they insure everyone as a benefit of being a resident. We will still have plenty of uninsured people. They also do not have PROFIT taken by medical corporations from the cost of treating the ill. Plus, they have no billing offices. A Canadian friend who now lives in MI has had to take kids to hospitals in CA for emergencies when visiting parents there. Never got a bill because no one knew how to do it. It was cheaper to provide the care and not bill than to provide the care and try to bill. Not providing the care was not an option, since they are a country who take care of each other during hard times and good. Isn't that why we invented civilization in the first place? Or is that too European/Middle Eastern/Asian a concept, to be civilized? When did helping each other when times were bad become unAmerican?

To those who want to know who the "we" who decided that since no one ever went to the discussions side we would simply treat this forum as a do-all-be-all of Small Housedom, it was those who post. If you need to stick closely to the rules, go ahead and report the thread. We respect your right to disagree. Really, it won't bother us and if it makes you feel better, go ahead and do it. Small Housers don't sweat the small stuff - tee hee.

Loretta, I have heard of docs around here dropping Medicare due to increases in documentation that completely pre-date any health care bill. DF-in-L lost his Rheumatologist that way. We do not have a full-scale fleeing of the insurance system as a whole, yet.

I have a feeling that docs are going to be earning a living wage that does not support nice offices and all that extra staff as reimbursements decline. They will be middle-class, as they are in most countries. If master-degreed psychologists and social workers in my field can go from earning $50,000 to $25,000 for full-time work, I can see it hitting the docs eventually, too.

Trance is correct. About 2 years ago we decided to just post here. People seemed to forget about the conversation side and posts sat there forever, never being answered or just a two way conversation.

I love that we are a larger group now. We could start posting a topic on discussion side to tell us to go to conversation. Maybe we would get used to it again. I still check there even though the last post was from more than a year ago. And this could have been one of those posts just written to title "conversations" for direction.

On to the original topic, if you are on medicare, do not change doctors. Trying to find one that takes it is more than difficult. The doctors get a pitance of normal charges and I can't blame them. But this is going to get worse and my supplemental keeps going up 20% a year. The question that is never answered is how much is "required insurance" going to cost. And yes, what will they do to me if I can't afford it. A new facility for those who don't pay for insurance? Would it be called jail or a solarium for the ill?

I believe that the bill (which Obama and his people did not write, it was left for Congress to do something precisely because the president did not want the bill to be seen as being forced on people, but written by their direct representatives, instead) keeps insurance companies from raising rates in response to the new requirements. Your insurance does not have to change unless you want it to.

I LIKE the group here, and I don't mind the discussions that are considered "off topic". Everyone is friendly and I've enjoyed this forum way more than any of the others on Gardenweb. So....chat away guys (and gals)!

Sandy

I have been lurking on this forum for a short while now because I'm moving from a house to a 900 sq. ft. condo (hopefully I get the one I want). I'm usually on the organizing forum.

I'm Canadian and moved back here 2 years ago after living about 28 years in the U.S. My adult daughter has 2 major chronic illnesses and we needed to move back here because of health care. Sometimes, we've waited about 2 - 3 months to see a specialist but we can always see the GP within a day or two and he fits us in late afternoon because I work. Her illnesses put her in the hospital every few months and they end up keeping her there from a few weeks to 3 months each time. They say there is a shortage of hospital beds but we've never personally witnessed it. It was heartwarming to see doctors begging a very sick homeless person to stay IN the hospital to be treated because they feared for his life if he left.

I was disappointed that Obama didn't go straight for a system like Canada's. I'd move back to the States in a minute if your health care system was like ours. I just don't understand why people don't think it's their responsiblity to put money into a pool and everyone gets health care. I guess it's because if an illness doesn't directly affect one's family, it cannot be understand how a family's world can be turned upside down. Sorry if this sounded like a rant but until you experience both the U.S. system and the Canadian system with a sick child, you cannot understand how much better and affordable the Canadian system really is. At least here if you lose your job, you keep your health care.

I personally am tired of the modern American sport of "It ain't my fault"....... Nothing is anybodys fault is it?
You want to eat antibiotic hormone added grain fed beef and fish, consume pasteurized and homogenized low and no fat dairy, eat lots of nitrate filled "cured" meats, drink soda's all day and night, knock off a bag of Cheetohs and eat 'Nilla Wafers all weekend, get your exercise pushing the remote and cruising back and forth to the 'fridge....This ain't real popular but too bad, you DESERVE the results that you get.....

Maybe we should start "taxing" results, not tax tastes.
Let's say every family of 4 pays base health care stipend of $123.45 per month for an age adjusted, healthy weight, controlled/stable/moderate blood pressure and blood glucose levels, good hrl/ldl cholesterol ratio, low tri-glycerides, and good performance on a treadmill/step stress test, non-smoking is the baseline. So say that you get to live like you please, but, you get to pay based on costs for whatever your sins might be, laziness, gluttony, smoking, drinking, whatever.
So say this family of 4 is weight wise 123% of the "ideal" base line weight...$123.45*1.333=164.56

blood glucose at say 123n % of the "ideal" level....$164.56*1.333=219.36

cholesterol levels/ratios 123% of the "ideal" level..$219.36*1.333=292.40

substandard stress test results 123% of "ideal "... $292.40*1.333=389.77

And to cover their long term costs, let'sfigure 2 smokers at 25% extra premium cost per tobacco user and they get to pay................ $389.77*1.50=584.66
So, the "baseline premium" $123.45 is "tax-covered" and all you have to pay for is the results, and nobodies God given right to anything gets trampled on and no one pays for what is or is not a "sin". No, let's only tax only the results, so no cost to the non to moderate substance of any kind abuser.
Anyway, all of our example family sins cost them a cool $461.21 in cash a month. That pretty much solves the problem..........Within 6 months fraud and quackery and FDA allowed Tom-foolery in the "diet business" would end as results based dietary standards become the norm, and within 3 years the goal should be 85% of the population is at a level that displays healthy weight and test results.
But, Oh My!!! This would require that people make some personal effort towards and take responsibility for the choices they make and the costs that those choices bring upon THEM!!!! NOT upon me and mine.....
Is it too much to expect that everyone pursue a program of moderate daily exercise,a diety based on high complex carbohydrates content, moderate quality protein content, and low fat content diet. Free, proven, immediately and permanently effective, no "additional" cost, no costly prescription drugs nor expensive medical supervision required, and based on readily available and easily obtained foods, attainable objectives, and a simple system to learn.
Oh yeah, and add an extra 10% for every 10% every kid under 18 is overweight, since the long term costs of childhood obesity are now becoming understood as high and chronic......

Problem solved, except nobody in America, except maybe me is willing to say "shut up and deal with it, if it's your doing that causes it, it should be your pocket that pays for it, no exceptions"

And no more paid for prescriptions fraudulant "diseases and conditions" like ADHD and "acid reflux disease" and TypeII Diabetes..... you know, SELF INDUCED conditions CAUSED by willful choosing bad diet and little to no exercise opting instead for this pill that drug or the other latest treatment.

You get to pay for the results of the choices YOU make... Neither ask nor expect me to pay for all this garbage folks, no not me folks.....

As far as I'm concerned, those who choose to rely on the modern American model of "health care" for their better health and well being deserve exactly what they are getting. If people aren't willing to accept responsibility and accountability for the choices they WILLINGLY make, they can just hurry up and die and relieve mme and my children and grandchildren of the WILLFULLY INDUCED BURDEN of paying the costs of and for their pitiful lifestyles and choices.

Just curious, spunbondwarrior, what do you say to those folks who are born with a disability or end up getting cancer, etc? Should they be on their own as well?

"what do you say to those folks who are born with a disability or end up getting cancer, etc?" That is what and who "health insurance" should be for.
It should not be, not at neither my nor any other taxpayers expense, for those who are the primary cause of their own decline.
If you want to have your bills paid for that which you are the primary cause of, then it should be your responsibility to pay the premiums.

My apologies to all for upsetting most everyone off on this subject, but the truth is the truth, deal with it.

I was once a rather rotund 262 pounds. My cholesterol ratio was terrible, my blood pressure was bouncing all over the place. Then in a moment of fantastically good fortune, an internist who specializes in diabetics found out just why I could gain and lose (if I didn't mind being sick half the time) large quantities of weight on a repetitive basis....And it turned out that other than diet and exercise, there wasn't and still isn't anything other that can be shown to have any long term effectiveness at all. This it turns out was one of the best things that could have ever happened to me. 16 months later I was down to 175 pounds , a weight I have been at SINCE 1998! No pills, no TV medical miracles, no magic anything. Just a daily 3.5 to 5.1 mile fairly fast walk and a 55% complex carbs/25% quality proteins/20% quality fats diet. You know, the kind of stuff that actually works but that family and friends don't want to hear about.

If it is your "health" you are looking to "insure", do you watch what you eat, get plenty of exercise, read/study/and-stay mentally-active.? Do you turn off that TV and take the spouse the kids and the dogs for a 35-45 minute walk every evening? Do you eat lots of whole grain foods and see to it that your diet consists of mostly complex carbohydrates, a moderate amount of quality proteins, and certainly no more than 25% of all your calories are from fats of any kind?
Or do you prefer to moan and groan and whine about how it ain't your fault because of genetics or some other "medical issue" or how they can't make you do this that or the other because after all, yer an American and they ain't gonna tell you how to live your life.

This is ESPECIALLY for those "conservatives" who insist that all us Americans need to be held responsible for all of our own actions whatever those actions might be...
"Personal responsibility", what a great concept that is! Unless and except for...Oh yeah... except for the sorry shape folks have managed to put themselves into and that they now want, nay, demand that I pay for......

The almost 2/3 of us, yes that would be all those folks we all know, mama/daddy/aunt/uncle/son/daughter/spouse/boy/girl-friend... they are NOT pleasingly plump, not a BB-Anything, not large nor husky not anything except fat lazy and health ignorant by choice... Too many Americans are just plain fat, lazy, physically revolting pitifully inept whiners deserving of NO special consideration at all. Folks who are plain what is called FAT, and expecting everyone else to pay for the results of such lifestyle choices.

Health insurance, what is insurance anyway?

Insurance is a shared risk based system whereby the greater risk of damage/whatever the higher the premiums. Let's see..

A) How about if you drive a 10 year old 4 door family sedan have no tickets and no accidents charged to your record. How about if I drive a late model big block Corvette, had a couple of DUI's 4 speeding tickets and another moving violation or two and have had 3 accidents that I was charged with causing. How about if we both get to pay exactly the very same exact auto insurance premium? Sounds fair to me.....

B) How about if you live on a paved road 1/2 mile from the nearest publicly supported fire station, 100 yards from the nearest fire hydrant and nobody smokes. How about if I live 1 mile off the road, 10 miles from the nearest fire department, and a volunteer one at that, no fire hydrants or fill ponds anywhere, 4 of us smoke like fiends and we have only wood heat. How about if we both get to pay the same exact fire insurance premium? Sounds fair to me....

C) How about if you live on top of a hill, 1 mile from the nearest body or stream of water, 200 miles inland, in a county with storm water run-off planning and no building in anything even remotely resembling a flood prone zone.. How about if I live right next to a river, 2 miles from the coast and there is no storm/run-off planning at all. How about if we both get to pay the same exact flood insurance premium? Sounds fair to me....

D) How about if you are height/weight proportionate, don't smoke, don't drink, get lots of exercise, stay mentally active and watch what you eat. How about if I smoke 2 packs a day, drink 8 beers a day, have high blood pressure, high cholesterol and triglycerides watch 4 hours of TV a day,and my exercise consists of pushing the remote, lighting a cigarette, and walking to and fro the fridge. How about we both get to pay the same exact health insurance premium? Sounds fair to me.

In example "A","B","C", I venture I couldn't buy a policy anywhere. Which is a very reasonable thing. Also very very reasonable is that if I could find an insurer, my rates would be far far higher than yours. Not only is that reasonable it is also FAIR AND JUST!!!!
And yet for some reason the majority of Americans, a majority is overweight, under-exercised, with the poorest of diets, TV addicted, mentally lazy and "suffering" from a spectrum of 100% preventable ailments, seem to think that when it comes to health "insurance" that it's only fair and right that they get coverage at the same exact premium rate as you.
Most unreasonable and unfair and not only that, unjust as well.
Is that socialism or what?
That is not what many would consider "socialism", no, it is not! That is "communism" >from each according to his ability, and to each according to his needNo more kidney transplants for 68 y.o diabetics, no more endless years of dialysis for 45 y.o. fat folks who got themselves into their condition all by themselves. No more chemo/radiation/drug "therapies" for those with cancer/cirrhosis who insist it is their "right" to continue smoking/drinking. No more triple bypasses for 83 y.o.'s. No more endless prescription regimens for chronic medical issues known to be caused and contributed to by ones personal lack of concern for proper diet, exercise, and effort. No more years of amphetamine and other stimulant based "therapies" for your kids while you continue pouring vast quantities of artificial colors and flavorings and refined sugars down their throats.

If you want to continue eating massive quantities of grain fed beef pork and fish, consuming vast quantities of agricultural goods grown and treated with all sorts of agri-chemicals, demanding and taking various pharmaceutical products for every "ailment" and issue imaginable.... If you want to do little other than eat and watch TV and type at your computer. If you want to continue eating modified fats and refined sugars...

Those who due to circumstances beyond all human control find themselves in need of medical treatment are exactly who and what health insurance should cover and be for, not those who are merely lazy and ill intended.

There are those here on this board who have major issues through none of their own doing....And that by the way would include me....I was once forced to choose between head-oning a school bus, head-oning the moron in a big hurry to pass that school bus , or a bunch of schoolgirls who just got off the bus, or a culvert and a tree. I made what I think was the right decision regardless, but I doubt diet and exercise were doing me much good under those circumstances...
It took me over 7 months to where I could walk one mile without falling or having to take a break, and I have never looked back.
I >worked Oh my, how do I manage to get on with life while refusing the "advice" and recommendations of massive quantities of all sorts of uppers/downers/stabilizers/modifiers and lots of other pharmaceuticals that nearly all of the modern medical establishment, save the research neuro's I see, seem to think I cannot survive without...... Maybe it's because I was raised to realize that life has its ups and downs and that one needs to just shut up, quit whining, and deal with it all... Yes, just get on with the business of making oneself a better person today than one was yesterday. Something which quite apparently is no longer neither an expectation nor teaching here in 21st century America.... It would seem that when it comes to "health care", personal responsibility has come to mean taking your meds "on time"
Amazing isn't it that I pretty much just eat well, stay mentally active and involved, do stuff daily, and walk a giant dog somewhere around 3.5 to 5.1 miles each day 6 days a week

Last Thursday 07/01:
age : 57
Ht. : 72"
wt. : 173
B.P.: 110/68
ARP : 49 BPM
Glucose Level was 89 two hours after eating
Cholesterol is what would be considered rather high at 228 total were it not for a 3.7:1 HDL:LDL ratio and those rather moderate pulse and blood pressure numbers.

And I do eat quite well too....And I do consume what is considered by all except the neurology folks I see to be way too much coffee.
And I eat quite a bit of what I do eat too..... I even have every week a big bowl of Bryer's and some Pecan Sandies, and even an occasional Hershey Bay, the occasional bar-b-que sandwich or chili-cheeseburger, and even a chili-cheese dog (with mayonnaise-slaw. and onions) on a somewhat irregular basis too. Life is good and should be enjoyed in all its many pleasures, otherwise life would be all too tedious and boring. No need to overdo anything though. And besides, making things occasional tends to make them special too

Now let us just assume for one little bitty minute that 25% of the adult American population could match my numbers and that another 50% could meet existing "targets" and the other 25% showed an overall 25% improvement....Just how much do you think the monetary savings would add up to??? And it wouldn't just be a money thing either folks...there is nothing like being able to live a normal and healthy life. People tend not to realize that until one day they find that they for-what-ever-reason cannot.

I hope this make my feelings on the subject somewhat more digestible, but in truth, I doubt it.

Your excellent numbers are a factor of genetics as well. I know very health-conscious people with cholesterol problems. The famous runner Jim Fixx died of a heart attack despite being in better shape than most people ever dream of being. So someone with a genetic predisposition to cholesterol or diabetes or whatever gets penalized? It's just not that simple.

It's really hard to pigeonhole people and blame them for their problems (although most are quite guilty of taking lousy care of themselves). According to insurance company guidelines, I'm considered 'obese'. Yet I'm in very good shape, and have similar numbers to yours, and I'm the same age. I take no medications, and my cholesterol was 159 this winter. But statistically, I'm 'obese' because I have a lot of muscle, which makes me heavier than I should be for my height. At 56, I can do 20 chin-ups, and I run 30 two-story flights of stairs in my 3 times weekly work-out. I can bench my body weight and then some, but have backed off of the heavy weights because it's too much wear and tear on an aging body. Don't forget, I'm considered to be 'obese'.

So how does the insurance industry look at me? I have never smoked, I eat healthy, non-processed foods, and I exercise regulary. But I am 'obese'.

Well This is really thought provoking spunbondwarrior. I am also guilty of Obese. Working on it and just over the edge. Sadly it is not muscle like Jay. Table muscle. I guess. We have always eaten well very little processed foods rarely drink a soda. I do have a glass of wine once in awhile. Like you I am NOT on a diet I am on a lifestyle way of eating. I have lost 17 pounds in the last year. OK big deal when I started off wanting to loose 50. But it is 17 down so I am glad for that and I have not suffered while trying to loose it . I also feel like I can continue to eat this way for the rest of my life so maybe next year I will loose another 17 or maybe 20. And then I will be only 10 left. I think the obese thing is like 5 pounds over just over weight for me now.Woo hoo

I do agree with a lot of your feelings. I do not have health insurance and hope to not have to buy it. I am not on any medications and took myself off the medications I used to be on. Thyroid and diuretics and horrormones.The doctors were trying to kill me.Thus some of the weight gain. But I also quit smoking and that added to it. Finally I had to take a stand and loose the weight.OH I do rub bengay on my hands for the pain.

I do not have stats. We do have a free clinic here once a year and I plan on getting my cholesterol checked. Last time I did so it was high but it was so because of the HDL and as I understand it that is the good cholesterol.My blood glucose was in the low normal range and I was not being very careful then about sweets like I am now.

I do eat carbs, mostly from veggies and breads, but have almost totally stopped goodies. YES I had a piece of cherry / pear pie on the fourth. This is the first goodie I have had in a whole year. Usually I eat fruit when the craving for a sweet thing hits.How can a person pass up a piece of hot out of the oven cherry/pear pie.Home made too.

Anyway this really is an interesting thread. I do think many people take too much faith in doctors and get on too much medication. My husband is 70 and so far his biggest health issue was he had to have cataracts removed in both eyes. He is not on any medication. Still rides his snowmobile and fourwheeler. He is a bit slower getting things done now than he used to be and so am I.

WE moved two years ago and we did it all ourselves with no help except the third load of furniture we brought in one day I caved in and asked one of the guys to help him carry the couch in as it was an amazingly heavy brute. I work in the yard and I do have a very fragile back and do go to the reflexologist once a month to help keep me in line. He really helps me.

I really do not know what this medical thing is going to come to. I hate to be forced to pay for something I will not use by choice. Yes if I broke my arm or leg. Even as a kid with fractured hip I refused surgery they wanted to do. I think many doctors are too surgery and testing oriented. Many of those tests are dangerous for us. Not even going to get into the cancer thing.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts and time to write it all out. I do think you could be onto something about you pay for your digressions.

Chris

Nancy in mich...glad you don't feel the need to "stick" to the rules.

Those crazy rules, who needs them, anyway?

As you would say, tee hee!

I guess I started the controversy here so I better chime in again. I've been distracted and haven't been back to this thread in a while but I just caught up. The main point I want to make is this; this is AMERICA, it's not Canada, it's not Norway, it's not Cuba. This Country was founded on the principles of limited government involvement and over the past 234 years we have devovled into a dispicable entitlement mentality. Go back and read the Decalration of Independence and the Constitution then come back and tell me that the Founding
Fathers would have gone along with the US Government taking over two of the three major auto makers, bailing out irresponsible banks, allowed a president to eclispe any previous president in the number of executive orders he has subjected us to or sat back while the new renegade took over a health care system that over 80% of the public was content with. If you want to be a Canadian or European then move there. Think Mayberry, think The Waltons (not the Wal-Mart group). They took care of themselves first, family second, friends and neighbors next and finally, they turned to their church. Then and only then did they look towards any form of government help. What happened to those ideals?

Case in point, Mayor Nagin and Hurricane Katrina. Did you see all the city buses and school buses covered in water? Hey Ray, why didn't YOU have a plan for getting YOUR buses and YOUR people out of harms way? Instead, you sit back and whine about when the Feds were going to swoop in and save you.

My sister and brother-in-law survived Hurricane Hugo in South Carolina. When the storm passed, the neighbors came out, checked on each other then fired up the saws and started clearing the roads and securing each other's houses. Because the power was out and food was going to spoil, the neighborhood had one big ole Bar-B-Que and EVERYONE had a feast regardless of who brought food and who didn't. Resources were shared and they NEVER looked to the government to provide anything. I was still in Florida at the time and on the 5th day they were without electricity, my dad and I called our friends and borrowed gas cans and coolers. We were about 5 hours away from loading my dad's truck with food, water, gas, charcoal, propane, etc. and heading that way ourselves. They called and said the power was back on and they could fend for themselves. No one got on CNN and asked when help would arrive. No one called the Governor or their Senator. No one cursed the President. They joined forces, did what was neccasary and waited for the LOCAL utility companies to get things back up and running.

The chain of resposiblity should be; self, family, friends, neighbors, church, City, County, State then and only then, Federal.

The position is President, not Dictator and the only reason that the obvious objections were not raised is because for some reason I can not grasp, most "journalists" are anxious to push us towards a socialist or marxist form of government and are acting as the PR machine for the current regime. What is happening today would not pass my deceased grand father's common sense test. If we are stupid enough to continue down this road then we deserve what we get. If we continue down this road, I will be seeking out "Freelandia" and hope it exists somewhere.

Margret Thatcher said it best. "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

Scott